2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 377 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

But Alena's marvelous skating already saved the hell out of that choreo! If she puts emotion into it and really interprets the music then we'll probably forget how uninspiring the choreography is. :laugh:

During the live event I posted that Alena is probably the only one capabable of doing a “cover” of one of Satoko’s programs. To me this is a very high praise of a skater who can deliver a program with the best of them. I said this during R&J too :peace:
 
About the choreography, I don't know what's going on in Eteri's camp... First they give a beyond bad POTO short to Alina and now this awkward R&J... :unsure:
But Alena's marvelous skating already saved the hell out of that choreo! If she puts emotion into it and really interprets the music then we'll probably forget how uninspiring the choreography is. :laugh:

I agree and I'm a bit concerned. Both Alina and Alena deserve much better choreo than that. In particular, Alena has always impressed me with her interpretation and musicality and it makes me annoyed to see her stuck with uninspired programs :\
 
About the choreography, I don't know what's going on in Eteri's camp... First they give a beyond bad POTO short to Alina and now this awkward R&J... :unsure:
But Alena's marvelous skating already saved the hell out of that choreo! If she puts emotion into it and really interprets the music then we'll probably forget how uninspiring the choreography is. :laugh:

Can you clearly explain what is wrong, in your opinion, with FP? Please don't talk about voices-stuff, cuz for my russian ear this is something pretty from Shakespeare, the same part of the show as the renaissance dress of Alena. Tbh at the first viewing, I didn't even pay attention to it and began to notice that there are some voices only after all these lamentations about the "voices".

I believe that this typical argument - "this is a bad choreo, but skater made it brilliant" - is shallow judgement, especially in this case. For me it's obvious, that both programs are created to emphasize Alena's advantages, her style and image. And successfully do it.
 
Probably an unpopular opinion here but I liked both of Kostornaia’s programs.... however I do think her free is weaker. (probably just because I love her short so much) Sure she was a tad shaky in the free but all that happened was a well covered stepout, and she still scored 200+ and I hope she keeps doing well throughout this season.
 
I feel like Alena fs is a bit plain and unimpressive for someone of her quality. I hope they will improve the choreo a bit. It's disappointing that her artistry isnt able to fully shine because of it.
 
Probably an unpopular opinion here but I liked both of Kostornaia’s programs.... however I do think her free is weaker. (probably just because I love her short so much) Sure she was a tad shaky in the free but all that happened was a well covered stepout, and she still scored 200+ and I hope she keeps doing well throughout this season.

I think a lot of people do agree. I’m still undecided on the program as to if I can love it or if I am am going to end up being a bit meh :handw: With Alena though it’s entirely possible to like and enjoy her skating regardless of if you think her program is perfect or a mismatch.

The thing about a warhorse like R&J is that comparisons and expectations are going to be brought into play. For better or for worse.
 
Can you clearly explain what is wrong, in your opinion, with FP? Please don't talk about voices-stuff, cuz for my russian ear this is something pretty from Shakespeare, the same part of the show as the renaissance dress of Alena. Tbh at the first viewing, I didn't even pay attention to it and began to notice that there are some voices only after all these lamentations about the "voices".

I believe that this typical argument - "this is a bad choreo, but skater made it brilliant" - is shallow judgement, especially in this case. For me it's obvious, that both programs are created to emphasize Alena's advantages, her style and image. And successfully do it.

I don't get it either, I personally loved both of Alena's programs so much, she fits Juliet. I don't understand how people can be so judgemental of a choreographer when they are basing everything off of their own opinions.

My opinion is that I didn't care for either of Anna's programs, which everyone raves about especially the short, but it's nothing against Daniil, it's just my taste and I still respect both him and Anna and what they created. On the other hand, I love Alina's short and have replayed it many times. And of pretty much all the Russians, I like Alina least, so this says a lot. I guess I just don't see the bad choreo everyone else does, people are way too judgy, especially at the beginning stages.
 
Can you clearly explain what is wrong, in your opinion, with FP? Please don't talk about voices-stuff, cuz for my russian ear this is something pretty from Shakespeare, the same part of the show as the renaissance dress of Alena. Tbh at the first viewing, I didn't even pay attention to it and began to notice that there are some voices only after all these lamentations about the "voices".

I believe that this typical argument - "this is a bad choreo, but skater made it brilliant" - is shallow judgement, especially in this case. For me it's obvious, that both programs are created to emphasize Alena's achievements, her style and image. And successfully do it.

Well, personally I don't hate the program like some others here, but I don't think it's particularly strong either. It's fine overall, just not great. Not a big fan of the voiceover as I find it too gimmicy for R&J, but whatever, it's only there in the beginning. The real problem for me is in the last part: the program flows very nicely in the middle, but then there's a very jarring cut right through a spin into a different music and Alena begins a rather hectic step-sequence that doesn't really go with the music. And she's so busy with it that there's not much left of the character.

One more thing about the voiceover and other special effects: I'm not someone who hates things like that in general. They can fit well for some programs. From what I've seen of Sasha Trusova's 5th Element program, it fits there quite nicely. What I dislike about them at this point, though, is that they're very clearly part of the style of the group. I hear voiceovers, planes, thunderstorms or whatever other gimmic and I know I'm watching a program by one of Eteri's students. But what I want to see is the style of a skater, not a uniform style of a coaching team.
 
But what I want to see is the style of a skater, not a uniform style of a coaching team.

Do you seriously argue that you do not see a difference in style between the programs of Anna Shcherbakova and Alena Kostornaya?(especially short programs that simply embody the images of girls) I'm speechless.
 
Do you seriously argue that you do not see a difference in style between the programs of Anna Shcherbakova and Alena Kostornaya?(especially short programs that simply embody the images of girls) I'm speechless.

Sure there are lots of differences but there are a lot of similarities too. Especially in the steps because as far as I know Eteri sets those. The poster you quoted was referring to voiceovers and sound effects though. Sasha even has the glass breaking sound this year. Julia had the thunderstorm that washed away her beautiful heart. Evgenia has had several. I think an Eteri team program is recognizable but the skaters certainly have room for their personalities to shine thru and distinguish them.

It’s not an insult to have a recognizable style and method IMO.

Has any other coach had so many skaters with sound effects and voiceovers? For the record...I like some but not all :devil:
 
Well no, that's not what I argue at all. I'm saying that adding voiceovers and non-musical sounds has become too much of a recognizeable Team Tutberidze gimmic. And that's something I'm starting to dislike, because it's a very noticeable "team signature", so to speak, that distracts from the particular skater when you encounter it again and again in multiple programs. I don't like to be reminded of the choreographer or the coach too much when I'm watching a program. But that's just me and I'm not saying it's a huge deal that totally ruins the program for me. It's just becoming a mild annoyance at this point.
 
Well, personally I don't hate the program like some others here, but I don't think it's particularly strong either. It's fine overall, just not great. Not a big fan of the voiceover as I find it too gimmicy for R&J, but whatever, it's only there in the beginning. The real problem for me is in the last part: the program flows very nicely in the middle, but then there's a very jarring cut right through a spin into a different music and Alena begins a rather hectic step-sequence that doesn't really go with the music. And she's so busy with it that there's not much left of the character.

One more thing about the voiceover and other special effects: I'm not someone who hates things like that in general. They can fit well for some programs. From what I've seen of Sasha Trusova's 5th Element program, it fits there quite nicely. What I dislike about them at this point, though, is that they're very clearly part of the style of the group. I hear voiceovers, planes, thunderstorms or whatever other gimmic and I know I'm watching a program by one of Eteri's students. But what I want to see is the style of a skater, not a uniform style of a coaching team.

I agree with everything except the last part. Daniil has his issues but he does brings the skater's character and qualities very well. Not at all times, unfortunately, as we're seeing this season.
Last season for instance, look at Trusova's programs and Alena's and Tarakanova's. They were spot on! Very different and very characteristic of their skating. Trusova's pollemic Big Spender was fun and fitted her skating style. Tarakanova's were intense and passionate, just like her skating. Alena's SP was intrinsic and elegant. Her FS was magical. They all showcased their abilities very, very well.

So, I'm not "hating" on Alena's programs or Daniil at all. Poor Daniil, by the way. Just these days he was choreographing Junior girls and now he has to choreograph the best ever Junior ladies and an OGM. It must be tough for him too.
 
I don't want to hate on Daniil either. I just wish he turned it down a notch with the sound effects. Anna's FP has it, Alena's FP has it, Sasha's FP has it, Alina's SP has it. And that's just the programs from him that we've already seen.

Anyway, like I said, that's not my main issue with Alena's program and I don't think the program is catasrophic in any way.
 
Well no, that's not what I argue at all. I'm saying that adding voiceovers and non-musical sounds has become too much of a recognizeable Team Tutberidze gimmic. And that's something I'm starting to dislike, because it's a very noticeable "team signature", so to speak, that distracts from the particular skater when you encounter it again and again in multiple programs. I don't like to be reminded of the choreographer or the coach too much when I'm watching a program. But that's just me and I'm not saying it's a huge deal that totally ruins the program for me. It's just becoming a mild annoyance at this point.

For me it is so insignificant and irrelevant as if we were talking about pictures, and you would talk about frames - "all of the same type, and this gilding distracts me, what a kitsch".

Нere are the realities: this programs surprisingly fit to the girls personality and styles. And this is a rarity. Usually, skaters presented rubbish and nonsense. Only few receive a normal choreo, made with a soul, and really fitted to them. UPD. This is natural, because the choreographer (I mean eminent) usually does not really know the figure skater, does not see him every day, etc.
 
For me it is so insignificant and irrelevant as if we were talking about pictures, and you would talk about frames - "all of the same type, and this gilding distracts me, what a kitsch".

Нere are the realities: this programs surprisingly fit to the girls personality and styles. And this is a rarity. Usually, skaters presented rubbish and nonsense. Only few receive a normal choreo, made with a soul, and really fitted to them. UPD. This is natural, because the choreographer (I mean eminent) usually does not really know the figure skater, does not see him every day, etc.

It‘s just that people have seen so many programs with soundeffects from Team Eteri that they‘re starting to get annoyed by it. We‘ve literally had it from Medvedeva‘s first SP in senior level with the “wind“ in the end, to her SP the next season with the camera and the planes and voiceovers in the FS. But all this time it was only her so people only criticized her for this and not whole Team Eteri. But now it‘s like a reaccuring trend for all of them. I can see how people could get annoyed by this even though personally, I don‘t feel this way. I never minded Medvedeva‘s sound effects, I don‘t mind them now. The only ones I was a bit critical off in the beginning were Alena‘s Leo voiceovers because... well, I still hear Rose calling “Jaaaack!“ during Elena‘s otherwise so beautiful layback spin. It was likely still the trauma of that Titanic program still haunting my brain. :palmf: But they‘re by far not as atrocious as Titanic‘s were so it‘s okay. I‘m not a fan of them but I don‘t mind them that much either. And about the general use of soundeffects... well, people, that might be the future. First we got music with lyrics for skating, now it‘s sound effects. I don’t mind it, I think it gives a nice touch and I actually like that Team Eteri somehow has something that makes them unique. These small things that people call “gimmicks“... well, it makes them stand out from the rest. That, combined with their phenomenal skating leads to them becoming stars at a very young age. People remember them. They always remember people who are different and outstanding. Whether you find it good or not is another thing. :shrug:

That being said, this of course does not mean that I enjoy every program for the simple fact that there are sound effects included. That would be... well. Pretty stupid to say it mildly. I‘m not completely sold on Alena‘s FS yet and Alina‘s SP is a huge questionmark right now but - and there‘s a big but:

This was Alena‘s FIRST official competition of the season and she‘s skating a very difficult program with ridiculous transitions + having loads of pressure on her to deliver. How can anyone expect a perfect skate including passionate interpretation of the music? She was nervous, she didn‘t skate her new FS yet at a competition. She needs to get used to it, grow into it, improve it and continue to work. Same with Anna‘s FS. I don‘t particularly love it either but it‘s already a lot better than it was during Dreams on Ice.

And we haven‘t even seen Alina‘s SP yet apart from a performance in a show. I don‘t like POTO in general so I didn‘t expect too much and I still find the music cuts to be extremely weird but it might grow on me as a program as the season goes on and she improves. I was never a particular fan of DQ. Only after watching it multiple time and especially the one performance at the Olympics - I grew to appreciate and love it. Same with Black Swan. That‘s why I‘m a bit careful with saying that I don‘t “like“ a program for now. Because even though a program isn‘t good now, doesn‘t mean it can‘t ever be. And just because I don‘t like it now doesn‘t mean I can‘t grow to appreciate it in the future.

And I‘m feeling a bit sorry for Daniil to be honest. Last year‘s program were masterpieces because they each managed to catch the spirit of the skater performing it perfectly - Alena‘s, Sasha‘s, Nastya‘s, Alina‘s. I didn‘t love all of them equally but I can say that they suited each of their personality really, really well. And if you get compared to something outstanding like that, the result likely will be worse. It‘s simply not possible to produce constantly and solely good programs. There have to be weak links. It‘s not like he‘s not trying. I bet he‘s probably trying too much. Team Eteri should really go and get a second choreographer to help Daniil out and split the work. Medvedeva has had her SP program choreographed by Alexander Zhulin in her early senior days, why isn‘t he choreographing for Team Eteri anymore? Or somebody else? Cause I really feel like that could help solve the problem.
 
I feel like Ilya Averbuch should continue to help team Eteri.

I enjoyed Alena's music in the SP, but her LP just doesn't do it for me. She is far too elegant and sophisticated for that. All I kept thinking is that they recycled Medvedeva's only LP routine from last season and Liptniskaya's LP from 2014/2015. It's just not as original. Same goes for most of the LPs of the juniors this season.

Not bad programs, just not everyone's cup of tea.
 
I feel like Ilya Averbuch should continue to help team Eteri.

I enjoyed Alena's music in the SP, but her LP just doesn't do it for me. She is far too elegant and sophisticated for that. All I kept thinking is that they recycled Medvedeva's only SP routine from last season and Liptniskaya's LP from 2014/2015. It's just not as original. Same goes for most of the LPs of the juniors this season.

Not bad programs, just not everyone's cup of tea.

Just me being curious but why Medvedeva‘s SP routine? What does Chopin have to do with it? :biggrin:

And I know about Averbukh and I actually always enjoyed his programs (kind of in the minority) but I didn‘t want to name him because well... people aren‘t too fond of his programs here, I think. :shrug:
 
Uhm, on the sound effects, there's always a fine line between a 'signature' style and being overdone.

The fact that it's coming up as an issue suggests that, as a group, Eteri's skaters are getting over the line into overdone.

On vocals and voice-overs though, one thing to keep in mind is that native or fluent speakers of whatever language can't help processing the sense of the words, or at least trying to.

So, it becomes important to be aware that the meaning of the words is important, and that the attempt to make sense of the meaning can be distracting.

If it's just sound, as in jazz or abstract music, that's one thing but intelligible or almost intelligible words are another.

Personally, I find poorly enunciated opera pieces in French equally distracting. I just can't seem to turn my brain off and process the sound as music.
 
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