2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[dansams]

And well, that's all we have to work with when it comes to Eteri -> Orser coaching changes...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Zhenya is making mistake or that Orser is a bad coach?

Frankly no one knows what will happened w/ the coaching change, but if I have to bet, Zhenya is probably not winning like she was before. But that has nothing to doing w/ the coach and everything to do w/ Zhenya being 18 and there are waves and waves of younger and stronger girls coming up every year. The latter is why all of this is happening in the first place.

 

[Shayuki]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Zhenya is making mistake or that Orser is a bad coach?

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

 

[madison]

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

I think she isn't making a mistake, at least for her internal peace.
She has to try something and maybe, with this change, she would still be interesting for the judges.

 

[charlotte14]

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

Nah, Med won't improve or get love from Russian fed even if she stayed with Eteri. Russian fed will just dump her as soon as the junior girls set foot to senior. Also Eteri will just do the same even sooner. Med is not naive. Staying with Eteri does not help her at all. It might even damage her mental health. Leaving does not guarantee her another Olympic but at least she believes she has a chance to fight back with this coach change.
And you should not count chicken so soon. No one is sure they're going to get anyone with strong mentality like Med who keep delevering consistency ever since she's 13 to when she's 18.

 

[Rina Rin]

I don't understand why we should condemn Medvedev, even if she really said these words about Alina. It was the Olympic Games, the dream of any athlete, and she lost them. Did you never say anything to anyone about anything that you later regretted?
It's just emotions.

 

[dansams]

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

It's well known that Eteri is a fantastic coach for kids and younger girls. No doubt Eteri is already focusing on the next Olympics at Beijing. Heck, she already brought in Maya Khromykh & Kamila Valieva like a month after Pyeongchang. Clearly any coach would want to produce the maximum number of opportunities to achieve results.

It is also well known that Eteri has not produced champions after they hit a certain age. Many feel that Eteri is a specialist and is great at producing results at "just the right age". It's hard debating this cuz there are no contrary evidence. Now on to Zhenya, she's been with Eteri for ELEVEN yrs. She's seen everything and been thru everything. She knows what kind of decision she's making, what she's giving up, and what it'd be like had she stayed.

 

[madison]

It's well known that Eteri is a fantastic coach for kids and younger girls. No doubt Eteri is already focusing on the next Olympics at Beijing. Heck, she already brought in Maya Khromykh & Kamila Valieva like a month after Pyeongchang. Clearly any coach would want to produce the maximum number of opportunities to achieve results.

It is also well known that Eteri has not produced champions after they hit a certain age. Many feel that Eteri is a specialist and is great at producing results at "just the right age". It's hard debating this cuz there are no contrary evidence. Now on to Zhenya, she's been with Eteri for ELEVEN yrs. She's seen everything and been thru everything. She knows what kind of decision she's making, what she's giving up, and what it'd be like had she stayed.

Eteri is right when she says that the woman body is changing and therefore harder to jump... It's just the reality.
But this doesn't mean that the post puberty girls cannot achieve results and cannot work for that.

 

[dansams]

Sorry for asking that question, I'm kinda new to fs, but what did she told about them?

???

What did who tell about who?

 

[charlotte14]

Eteri is right when she says that the woman body is changing and therefore harder to jump... It's just the reality.
But this doesn't mean that the post puberty girls cannot achieve results and cannot work for that.

Which is why Med is moving. Med knows her body very well. People say Orser is not good with ladies? At least his team has experienced with ladies who have gone through puberty. Aka Yuna and Gabby. No one says Med will get through all this risks, but she knows what she needs, a place where they might have some clue how to deal with grown up ladies, not kids.

 

[russianfan]

Many feel that Eteri is a specialist and is great at producing results at "just the right age".

Is there an achievement in figure skating, like, "Produce a 25yo champion"? And what does it give to a coach? I just still don't understand why some people care so much about age.

 

[charlotte14]

Is there an achievement in figure skating, like, "Produce a 25yo champion"? And what does it give to a coach? I just still don't understand why some people care so much about age.

Because they want to watch beautiful skating with maturity like Kwan, Yuna, Mao, Carolina? Oh don't forget Joannie Rochette.

 

[dansams]

Is there an achievement in figure skating, like, "Produce a 25yo champion"? And what does it give to a coach? I just still don't understand why some people care so much about age.

I never said I begrudge Eteri for producing teenage champions. She's not breaking any rules. I think MANY fans quite enjoy some of the fruits of her labor.

That said, I also understand why older girls might not want to stay w/ her. That is all.

 

[yoloaxel]

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

I think Zhenya is bound to stagnate at Sambo, if not get worse because the method might injure her again with the endless repetitions. She might not improve with Orser, but at least she has a chance to. I don’t think she has it with a Eteri, she has maxed out her potential with her.

 

[readernick]

Is there an achievement in figure skating, like, "Produce a 25yo champion"? And what does it give to a coach? I just still don't understand why some people care so much about age.

I think that most people believe that if you teach correct technique your skaters will be able to enter adulthood and maintain or enhance their skating. Of course, all skaters have moments of struggle during puberty/ injury but good coaching and hard work enable them to skate well into their 20's and 30s. Many skaters have improved dramatically with age technically and artistically. (as charlotte14 mentioned above) The bronze medalist and world champion Katelyn Osmond is 22 years old and has improved dramatically in the last couple of years. Nothing wrong with producing teenage champions but most people want their favorite skaters to continue to skate for years. Eteri has produced only one lasting champion: Evgenia Medvedeva. (so far) She is 18 and would be viewed as young skater in most countries but in Eteri's camp she is a grandmother. I love some of Eteri's juniors specially Alena K. (beautiful) but I don't think we want all the girls to be abandoned as soon as they hit 16/17. Great coaches don't just care about their own personal glory they want the best for their students. If a student wants to continue to skate and to improve a good coach will be there to support and guide them. Obviously, Eteri's adult students don't feel they are getting this support from her. Which is fine. She has a right to focus exclusively on teaching young girls. But, it is also fine for those skaters to seek help from other coaches. They should not be forced to retire at 18 if they want to continue skating.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I'm saying that Zhenya is making a mistake, absolutely. And I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Orser is a better coach for ladies than Tutberidze and that no evidence suggests that this would be the case.

Hardly. Eteri is incapable, or rather, in essence unwilling, to train female skaters once they age out of her preferred group. I don't actually mind that, it is entirely her free choice not to deal with the challenges that come along.

Zhenya wants a career that will last; Eteri is not one to provide it, so she moved on. It'll give her an opportunity to expand as an artist too as she finally has access to other choreographers and isn't limited by force to Daniil and Averbukh. She doesn't actually have to keep winning, just seeing someone's career last while they better themselves and are still in the upper levels of skating is a reward in itself. Orser can provide that. He can also provide his own 'name' and politic for her regardless of the fed, which is something that would have been on shaky legs, in a season's time. It's massively beneficial Orser isn't under the Rus Fed's thumb.

This in general isn't a Medvedeva problem; this is an Eteri group problem and will await all those girls, sooner or later.

 

[russianfan]

Because they want to watch beautiful skating with maturity like Kwan, Yuna, Mao, Carolina? Oh don't forget Joannie Rochette.

so we're back to so called "maturity", the most biased and unmeasurable quality, and a perfect explanation for everything

 

[Yatagarasu]

so we're back to so called "maturity", the most biased and unmeasurable quality, and a perfect explanation for everything

Artistry develops during years. You can deny it all you want, but no 15 yo is a fully mature artist and they shouldn't be. It'd be awful tbh. Let women mature and evolve and watching that development is wonderful.
This is among other things one of my pet peeves for saddling girls like Alina with things like POTO at 16. There is time ... or there should be time to gain the maturity of expression for such things. But ah well.

 

[russianfan]

Oh, and there will be one funny moment if she goes to Orser: now even those who always were saying that she and her skating are still immature(despite being 18) will probably start saying that she is SOOO MUCH MORE MATURE NOW when switched to Orser i already feel it

P.S. i'm running out of popcorn already , but the real drama only begins

 

[russianfan]

Artistry develops during years. You can deny it all you want, but no 15 yo is a fully mature artist and they shouldn't be. It'd be awful tbh. Let women mature and evolve and watching that development is wonderful.
This is among other things one of my pet peeves for saddling girls like Alina with things like POTO at 16. There is time ... or there should be time to gain the maturity of expression for such things. But ah well.

i'm just not a big fan of "artistry" in a SPORT

more like a good bonus to have (in my opinion)

 

[Yatagarasu]

i'm just not not a big fan of "artistry" in a SPORT

You are watching, and discussing, the wrong sport then, when both performance and interpretation are a part of scoring.