2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Finley]

How do we know that it was only the Russian Fed who forced her to skate?

My opinion on factors other than Rus Fed that forced her to skate (in no particular order) -

The knowledge that her spot at Worlds was by no means secure. The Fed would have been fine with leaving her off the team.

The media acting like lunatics about everything related FS in Russia.

Fans of other skaters loudly voicing negativity towards Alina on sm.

Her silver medal at GPF being considered some kind of epic failure.

All the 'experts' saying she should just retire because Rika has a triple axel, Alina can't beat her technically, so why even bother to get out of bed?

Everyone who never fails to point out that Alina is training with her 'replacements' (all three of them!) every single day, and she will be completely obsolete and unnecessary by next season, so why not quit now?

I could go on and on. But I won't. For whatever it is worth, I wish she had been allowed to withdraw with the assurance that her place on the World team was secure. Since she wasn't allowed that privilege it became part of the journey of her season. And I don't think anyone that loves her would trade the ending of this season for anything. If one thing is different, everything is different.

I'm glad she shared this. I appreciate people acknowledging her courage.

RusFed can choke.

 

[flanker]

It's my understanding that this is the first official report we have received regarding any injuries she suffered this season. What was there to believe or disbelieve before? (Other than the tripping over the wire at GPF.)

It's disconcerting to think that she skated on this injury when she was clearly unable to do so at anywhere close to her usual level. That she performed so poorly as a result of this injury is an indication that she should've been taking time to heal instead of competing on it.

Like not believing Ted Barton, who eyewitnessed it? Not believing Daniil, who spoke about her burnings in his comments during RusNats? What some people needed more? Those pictures?

It was her team who announced intention to withdraw Alina from GPF and Rusnats (and even worlds), again, some peiople still don't believe that. Maybe, when they were true last time, they should deserve some credit with this too.

And, we saw more skaters skating over the pain now, even during worlds, nobody called for "he/she shouldn't skate", no, people I'm talking about are "concerned" again only with Alina.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This is why it’s important to me to try and avoid making assumptions about training environments. I’d hate to think that I was a part of the drama and noise that ultimately led to a skater pushing themselves to skate on injuries to prove something. Skaters themselves see those comments and it might affect them and encourage them to push forward to disprove loud and common narrative. No matter how uninformed those comments may be.

I can 100% say I’d have supported Alina and avoided speculating about her coach, health, and status as a skater had she withdrawn. You can bet on that!

I will say though that even if this particular wound is a bit extreme...it’s not something I haven’t seen even at the local level. Skating destroys feet! Wounds get infected and rubbed raw making healing nearly impossible. I’m not going to speculate on Alina herself but skaters push thru this stuff a lot. Gubanova has had reports of extreme blisters but competed anyway. I remember Yulia changed boots and they were so horrified by her blisters that the had to do some procedure to repair her veins.

These kids just need our suppprt and prayers IMO.

 

[DeeDee18]

It's more of a Russian mentality tbh... you skate through discomfort, pain, death of whomever, house burned down, etc. and you'll be considered a hero/great athlete. Idk if you guys pay attention to any other sports, but it's quite common for Russian athletes in any disciple to compete even if injured (ie. gymnastics)... unless you're legit in hospital and can't walk.

 

[Fluture]

Like not believing Ted Barton, who eyewitnessed it? Not believing Daniil, who spoke about her burnings in his comments during RusNats? What some people needed more? Those pictures?

It was her team who announced intention to withdraw Alina from GPF and Rusnats (and even worlds), again, some peiople still don't believe that. Maybe, when they were true last time, they should deserve some credit with this too.

And, we saw more skaters skating over the pain now, even during worlds, nobody called for "he/she shouldn't skate", no, people I'm talking about are "concerned" again only with Alina.

What‘s so wrong about being concerned though... not everyone is masking hate behind concern, secretly hoping for Alina to fall... I didn‘t doubt Alina being injured when Ted Barton said it, I didn‘t doubt it at Nationals... I know there are some people who do but they are the usual suspects and shouldn‘t be taken all too seriously.

However, while it’s true that skaters perform through injury, in those cases it usually can’t be avoided. Like, you can’t possibly withdraw minutes before your skate, if you injure yourself in the warm-up unless it’s really severe. There would be no substitue. Also, competitions like Worlds or OG which are really important... I get why skaters wouldn’t want to miss those. In Alina‘s case it could have been avoided, though. She’s already a National champion, she could have skipped RusNats, healed that burn and competed at Euros. Had she been fit, I‘m sure the result would have looked different. Liza was not going to make Euros anyway, so the spots for Worlds could have been decided there. It would not have changed a thing, other than that we might have had Liza over Sofia at Worlds, had the latter not won Euros. It was absolutely unnecessary for Alina to compete at Nationals, she gained nothing from it. And especially not from skating in the gala, with triple jumps especially. There‘s like no logical reason to do that. And that‘s just something I don‘t understand and we‘ve seen it so often already, last year, this year... Alina is so popular, she could be doing an exhibition without any jump whatsoever, only gliding around and she‘d still get huge applause. So, why risk her health even further by doing this? Why risk her health by doing quad jumps only a few months after? I‘m sure the federation has a considerable amount of blame for making Alina skate, too. But I don‘t think they have anything to do with her skating in the gala, or doing these jumps weeks later.

Anyway, the only one in this situation who should truly be praised is Alina herself. That girl‘s a hero, the story could have very well ended differently. But it didn‘t, and that‘s largely due to her determination and strong will.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

We are again jumping to conclusions without enough information. Alina has expressed gratitude and appreciation for her coaching team many times, so let's not question her choices. The grandmother was there, if I remember correctly she was the one applying too much of the medicine, so Alina's family was aware of the burn. Yes, she skated at the gala, but some burns can be terrible on the first day and completely painless in the second, if taken care of properly (personal experience). So, instead of distributing blame, how about congratulating Alina for the courage?

P.S. Fluture, Med didn't jump during the gala, but she skated and jumped with an injury during the FS. Brian's words when she got off the ice were "be brave for a couple of more minutes" and she was obviously in pain. I didn't see anyone making the case of "evil" Brian making her to skate with an injury, when it could jeopardise her health and the long-term dream of the Olympics... I see that you are trying to say that Rusnats was less important than Worlds, but Rusnats was the path to Worlds. My point is that we don't know enough for any of the two injuries to question the decisions made and we should just trust the choices of our favourite athletes and their teams.

 

[andromache]

Like not believing Ted Barton, who eyewitnessed it? Not believing Daniil, who spoke about her burnings in his comments during RusNats? What some people needed more? Those pictures?

It was her team who announced intention to withdraw Alina from GPF and Rusnats (and even worlds), again, some peiople still don't believe that. Maybe, when they were true last time, they should deserve some credit with this too.

And, we saw more skaters skating over the pain now, even during worlds, nobody called for "he/she shouldn't skate", no, people I'm talking about are "concerned" again only with Alina.

Ted Barton witnessed the chemical burns? I wasn't aware of that, or that Daniil spoke about it during RusNats. This is literally the first I've heard of it or any other injury all season, other than tripping at GPF.

Alina's team announced their intention to withdraw, and I am only curious why they did not. Was there pressure from RusFed to make Alina skate?

I don't have a problem with skaters competing/training through pain and injury - to a certain extent. If you are able to compete and not be severely effected by your injury, it's a sign that your injury is manageable, at least temporarily. But it's clear that Alina's injury had a major impact on her RusNats and Euros performances and I am sad for her, even if she felt motivated to prove herself and wanted to skate at the time, because going out there at RusNats and Euros to skate on her injury was clearly a bad idea, based on her performances there.

She was obviously in much better health at Worlds and so was able to be successful in her performances.

 

[Alexz]

It's more of a Russian mentality tbh... you skate through discomfort, pain, death of whomever, house burned down, etc. and you'll be considered a hero/great athlete. Idk if you guys pay attention to any other sports, but it's quite common for Russian athletes in any disciple to compete even if injured (ie. gymnastics)... unless you're legit in hospital and can't walk.

Word. #Aliyathings

..and Ukrainian gymnast Oleg Verniaiev (barely held together with a prayer and a scotch tape) just had 2 more surgeries 2 months ago, and yet he is planning to compete on 2 events this week. This is a professional sport. Unfortunately, athletes sometime have to push through injuries. Maria Paseka had a surgery on her spine recently and now she is already back in the field landing those beautiful Amanars and Chengs.

 

[andromache]

P.S. Fluture, Med didn't jump during the gala, but she skated and jumped with an injury during the FS. Brian's words when she got off the ice were "be brave for a couple of more minutes" and she was obviously in pain. I didn't see anyone making the case of "evil" Brian making her to skate with an injury, when it could jeopardise her health and the long-term dream of the Olympics... I see that you are trying to say that Rusnats was less important than Worlds, but Rusnats was the path to Worlds. My point is that we don't know enough for any of the two injuries to question the decisions made and we should just trust the choices of our favourite athletes and their teams.

Clearly an LP at Worlds is way more important than a gala. That's obvious. It's also more important than Nationals if you are #1 in your country and can get a bye to Worlds.

RusNats isn't always the path to Worlds. Zhenya was given a bye to the Olympics in 2018 - RusFed should've been willing to extend one to Alina for Worlds in 2019. If they did not give her this option and instead forced her to compete injured, then what's wrong with being mad at RusFed about that?

Circumstances being what they are, I have no problem with Zhenya skating her LP at Worlds (Zhenya is also an adult, not a minor like Alina). Her performance was not badly affected by her injury. That said, BOrser has certainly had at least one instance in which he allowed a skater to compete and absolutely should NOT have, and he (deservedly) got a lot of crap for it.

 

[Fluture]

We are again jumping to conclusions without enough information. Alina has expressed gratitude and appreciation for her coaching team many times, so let's not question her choices. The grandmother was there, if I remember correctly she was the one applying too much of the medicine, so Alina's family was aware of the burn. Yes, she skated at the gala, but some burns can be terrible on the first day and completely painless in the second, if taken care of properly (personal experience). So, instead of distributing blame, how about congratulating Alina for the courage?

P.S. Fluture, Med didn't jump during the gala, but she skated and jumped with an injury during the FS. Brian's words when she got off the ice were "be brave for a couple of more minutes" and she was obviously in pain. I didn't see anyone making the case of "evil" Brian making her to skate with an injury, when it could jeopardise her health and the long-term dream of the Olympics... I see that you are trying to say that Rusnats was less important than Worlds, but Rusnats was the path to Worlds. My point is that we don't know enough for any of the two injuries to question the decisions made and we should just trust the choices of our favourite athletes and their teams.

The thing is that I‘ve clearly said that Alina is the one who should be praised. Because ultimately, she was the one who competed with these injuries and made it through, winning the World Championships in the end. And she‘s only 16. Her determination and strength are insane.

But the thing is, Alina IS only 16. Somebody has to look out for her, make sure she looks after her body as best possible for an athlete. Whether it‘s the federation, her coaches or her parents. She might be incredibly tough but she‘s also still a child. And it hurts my heart to see a young girl like her go through this when I‘m pretty sure it could have been avoided.

I wasn‘t happy with Evgenia having to skate through pain. But I know that it wasn‘t avoidable in this case. Fact is, Alina‘s season was a lot better than Evgenia‘s. She had much more of a case to be at Worlds, even if she hadn‘t competed at Nationals. She‘s had, what, 4 medals at that point already, three of them gold. So, Alina not skating at Nationals might have resulted in hate from the usual suspects but it would not have changed that she was the best lady Russia‘s had this season up to this point. They would have been mad to not let her get a bye to Euros at least. And Alina would have had more time to prepare for Euros, let the injury heal and prove herself there, if there was even anything she needed to prove...

Evgenia, however, only made the team to Worlds through huge controversy. I dare say that to withdraw there would have been almost impossible. After everything it took for her to get there? Russian press wouldn‘t have let her see the light of the day. Also, yes, Worlds is way different than Nationals. Had the Federation not let Alina go to Worlds, sorry, but they would be 100% to blame and fans would have been rightfully angry.

It‘s also not me saying ”evil“ Eteri or evil anyone. I just question some of the choices, whether they were made in the best interest of the athlete. If you had a look in Zhenya‘s fanfest, I was not too happy when she skated in the gala, even if she wasn‘t doing any jumps.

I also don‘t know why I shouldn‘t worry, though. Those are young kids, still, and I care about them. That’s why I’m a fan. Because I enjoy their performances and admire their personalities. Ultimately, I always hope that the athletes and their coaches will know best of course. But after having seen Evgenia do 3-3 last year in galas while battling an injury, I‘m suspicious. Because we don‘t know what this did to her foot and we will also never know. I’ve seen so many things that, I‘m sorry, but I can‘t trust 100% anymore. This is not some agenda against Eteri. I would think the same if it was any other coach and I have expressed worries about their decisions, too. (E.g Brian letting Yuzuru skate with that one injury after the collision at a GP event, was absolutely careless)

 

[Georgya]

It's more of a Russian mentality tbh... you skate through discomfort, pain, death of whomever, house burned down, etc. and you'll be considered a hero/great athlete. Idk if you guys pay attention to any other sports, but it's quite common for Russian athletes in any disciple to compete even if injured (ie. gymnastics)... unless you're legit in hospital and can't walk.

It's not only valid for the russians. There is a long list in history of sports of people competing through pain because of their passion: the american gymnast Kerri Strug jumping vault with a sprained ankle to win team gold in 1996 Olympics, Steven Gerrard playing with a broken foot finger and winning with Liverpool UCL final in 2004, Shun Fujimoto helped Japan win the team gymnastics gold medal at the 1976 Olympics after breaking his kneecap. He competed on the rings with the injury, and ended up dislocating it when he landed. Also, the determined french athlete Yohann Diniz who collapsed twice and defecated during the 50km walk but managed to finish eighth in Rio. Respect for them!!!

 

[Finley]

Ted Barton witnessed the chemical burns? I wasn't aware of that, or that Daniil spoke about it during RusNats. This is literally the first I've heard of it or any other injury all season, other than tripping at GPF.

Alina's team announced their intention to withdraw, and I am only curious why they did not. Was there pressure from RusFed to make Alina skate?

I don't have a problem with skaters competing/training through pain and injury - to a certain extent. If you are able to compete and not be severely effected by your injury, it's a sign that your injury is manageable, at least temporarily. But it's clear that Alina's injury had a major impact on her RusNats and Euros performances and I am sad for her, even if she felt motivated to prove herself and wanted to skate at the time, because going out there at RusNats and Euros to skate on her injury was clearly a bad idea, based on her performances there.

She was obviously in much better health at Worlds and so was able to be successful in her performances.

Ted Barton either saw Alina trip over the cable at GPF or was told that she fell by someone from the Russian team. I can't remember which and I don't care enough to dig through his tweets to find out.

There was a pretty vocal contingent of 'fans' expressing disbelief on various online social media platforms - Team Russia claiming an 'injury' to justify a poor performance again!

When Alina was asked directly about it in the post skate press conference she answered but didn't elaborate or make excuses, or claim that it affected her performance.

Tim Koleto posted a photo of TV cables underneath a carpet at a skating event on twitter saying - "this is what Zagitova meant when she referred to tripping over tv cords backstage. They're honestly kind of dangerous people the struggle is real we literally all trip on them."

If Tim Koleto is aware of all the online nonsense directed at Alina over every little thing I'm pretty sure Alina is aware of it too.

 

[andromache]

Ted Barton either saw Alina trip over the cable at GPF or was told that she fell by someone from the Russian team. I can't remember which and I don't care enough to dig through his tweets to find out.

There was a pretty vocal contingent of 'fans' expressing disbelief on various online social platforms - Team Russia claiming an 'injury' to justify a poor performance again!

When Alina was asked directly about it in the post skate press conference she answered but didn't elaborate or make excuses, or claim that it affected her performance.

Tim Koleto posted a photo of TV cables underneath a carpet at a skating event on twitter saying - "this is what Zagitova meant when she referred to tripping over tv cords backstage. They're honestly kind of dangerous people the struggle is real we literally all trip on them."

If Tim Koleto is aware of all the online nonsense directed at Alina over every little thing I'm pretty sure Alina is aware of it too.

This isn't relevant at all to her chemical burns later in the season. The fact that she tripped presumably did not lead to any sort of serious injury that affected her performance at GPF.

 

[ancientpeas]

Dudes.. vulgar expressions on a g-rated board are seriously not cool. :disagree::noshake:

 

[flanker]

What‘s so wrong about being concerned though... not everyone is masking hate behind concern, secretly hoping for Alina to fall... I didn‘t doubt Alina being injured when Ted Barton said it, I didn‘t doubt it at Nationals... I know there are some people who do but they are the usual suspects and shouldn‘t be taken all too seriously.

However, while it’s true that skaters perform through injury, in those cases it usually can’t be avoided. Like, you can’t possibly withdraw minutes before your skate, if you injure yourself in the warm-up unless it’s really severe. There would be no substitue. Also, competitions like Worlds or OG which are really important... I get why skaters wouldn’t want to miss those. In Alina‘s case it could have been avoided, though. She’s already a National champion, she could have skipped RusNats, healed that burn and competed at Euros. Had she been fit, I‘m sure the result would have looked different. Liza was not going to make Euros anyway, so the spots for Worlds could have been decided there. It would not have changed a thing, other than that we might have had Liza over Sofia at Worlds, had the latter not won Euros. It was absolutely unnecessary for Alina to compete at Nationals, she gained nothing from it. And especially not from skating in the gala, with triple jumps especially. There‘s like no logical reason to do that. And that‘s just something I don‘t understand and we‘ve seen it so often already, last year, this year... Alina is so popular, she could be doing an exhibition without any jump whatsoever, only gliding around and she‘d still get huge applause. So, why risk her health even further by doing this? Why risk her health by doing quad jumps only a few months after? I‘m sure the federation has a considerable amount of blame for making Alina skate, too. But I don‘t think they have anything to do with her skating in the gala, or doing these jumps weeks later.

Anyway, the only one in this situation who should truly be praised is Alina herself. That girl‘s a hero, the story could have very well ended differently. But it didn‘t, and that‘s largely due to her determination and strong will.

When somebody claimed Alina's wounds were fabricated/it was only an excuse for poor results and then, when he realizes it was real and starts his "concerns", I don't believe such person.

As for the border where to let skater compete/do exhibitons, it is again the matter of sympathies/antipathies for particular skater/team, with some being claimed brave, while with others their teams being claimed "not-careful". And it was Alina's team who wanted to withdraw her from competitions repeatedly.

And I sign this absolutely:

P.S. Fluture, Med didn't jump during the gala, but she skated and jumped with an injury during the FS. Brian's words when she got off the ice were "be brave for a couple of more minutes" and she was obviously in pain. I didn't see anyone making the case of "evil" Brian making her to skate with an injury, when it could jeopardise her health and the long-term dream of the Olympics... I see that you are trying to say that Rusnats was less important than Worlds, but Rusnats was the path to Worlds. My point is that we don't know enough for any of the two injuries to question the decisions made and we should just trust the choices of our favourite athletes and their teams.

:thumbsup:

 

[Fluture]

When somebody claimed Alina's wounds were fabricated/it was only an excuse for poor results and then, when he realizes it was real and starts his "concerns", I don't believe such person.

As for the border where to let skater compete/do exhibitons, it is again the matter of sympathies/antipathies for particular skater/team, with some being claimed brave, while with others their teams being claimed "not-careful". And it was Alina's team who wanted to withdraw her from competitions repeatedly.

If you want to think that everything is against Alina/Eteri and in favor of other teams, when some people are only genuinely voicing their concern, then feel free to do it. Then we have nothing more to discuss, though, because nothing I say will change your mind anyway or allow you to see things from a different perspective.

 

[Finley]

This isn't relevant at all to her chemical burns later in the season. The fact that she tripped presumably did not lead to any sort of serious injury that affected her performance at GPF.

I was responding to your question about Ted Barton witnessing the chemical burns. I was trying to clarify flanker's statement.

As far as it being relevant to the chemical burns, neither one of us know whether it is or not.

She sprained her ankle tripping over the cables. The team Dr. sprayed it with freezing spray. Her team considered withdrawing her. They did not. She skated. Only Alina knows whether that injury and the subsequent treatment affected her performance. Since she hasn't said anything one way or the other, anything we say is just speculation. I'm going to speculate that it did. Other people are free to believe that skating a free program on a freshly sprained ankle treated with freezing spray is no big deal. I am not going to argue with those people.

The chemical burn was caused by her grandmother administering some medication that I am not going to bother looking up the name of and leaving it on too long. Daniil explained this on the air during the gala at RusNats. The medication was for treating pain caused by an injury to her ankle. Could it be the same ankle that she sprained tripping over the cables at the GPF? Who knows?

 

[flanker]

Ted Barton witnessed the chemical burns? I wasn't aware of that, or that Daniil spoke about it during RusNats. This is literally the first I've heard of it or any other injury all season, other than tripping at GPF.

Alina's team announced their intention to withdraw, and I am only curious why they did not. Was there pressure from RusFed to make Alina skate?

I don't have a problem with skaters competing/training through pain and injury - to a certain extent. If you are able to compete and not be severely effected by your injury, it's a sign that your injury is manageable, at least temporarily. But it's clear that Alina's injury had a major impact on her RusNats and Euros performances and I am sad for her, even if she felt motivated to prove herself and wanted to skate at the time, because going out there at RusNats and Euros to skate on her injury was clearly a bad idea, based on her performances there.

She was obviously in much better health at Worlds and so was able to be successful in her performances.

Ted did not talk about chemical burns but about Alina fell over a cable (and sprained her ankle). And there were those (the same who did not believe chemical burns later) who did not believe it. But it is cause and consequence, as the treatment Alina received later due to it caused those burns (poor Alina's grandma). In those events that were affected by it - GPF, RusNats, Euros, there were at least talks or more serious attempts by Alina's team to withdraw her from it. At GPF probably between Eteri and Alina, considering risks and gains, probably after a long consideration they concluded that Alina will finish the competition. But later during RusNats and Euros it was obviously between Eteri team and RusFed, when Rusfed probably said something like eiter Alina will compete at Rusnats or she won't be in the team" and something similar during Euros. I understand that situation of the rusfed is not easy either - many strong ladies and how to choose when some are injured/ill/didn't compete well during last competition, but Alina is the unlucky girl who practically never had something guaranteed without being forced to skate over injury.

 

[flanker]

If you want to think that everything is against Alina/Eteri and in favor of other teams, when some people are only genuinely voicing their concern, then feel free to do it. Then we have nothing more to discuss, though, because nothing I say will change your mind anyway or allow you to see things from a different perspective.

When some people are "genuinely voicing their concern", that doesn't mean that everyone who is voicing his concern is doing it genuinely.

I have concerns for Alina, but I did not doubt those claims in the first place.

 

[el henry]

When some people are "genuinely voicing their concern", that doesn't mean that everyone who is voicing his concern is doing it genuinely.

I have concerns for Alina, but I did not doubt those claims in the first place.

But on what do you base that everyone who is voicing a concern is not doing it genuinely?

I have voiced concern for Eteri’s skaters based on their own words. I have seen others voice concern for Eteri’s skaters based on those words.

But a general statement that “some are not genuine” without directly addressing the statements that are supposedly not genuine, is unpersuasive.