2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[ejnsofi]

Vincent went to Raf? Seems wrong.

Yeah, mea culpa. I mixed him with Romain I'm far too sleep deprived and my brain was in "Moulin Rouge guy mode". Which reminds me that Romain improved tremendously and I couldn't actually believe my eyes when I saw him this season.

Coming back to Russian girls I wonder what kind of programs Alina and Evgenia will have in Korea

 

[moriel]

Maybe because there's life outside skating, and (IMO) the US is a more favourable place to live than Russia in many regards? Compared to the US, Russia is practically brutal to some of their athletes and the win-at-all-costs mentality is huge (moreso than the US). It makes Russian athletes tougher and more competitive, yes, but it also puts them physically and mentally through the ringer.... something not every parent wants to put their kid through at the cost of a gold medal (which even the hardest working Russian skaters will never get a shot at, given how saturated the field is).

I would disagree. At least based on my visits to USA and my interactions with relatives who live there, Russians are much more relaxed and less focused on work and success at all costs than Americans. This is basically the main reason I refused a job in USA - too much work, too much pressure, not enough holidays and stuff.

Overall, my guess on why Americans don't go to other places to train is that they usually know no languages except for english and overall think the world outside USA is kinda savage overall.

 

[andromache]

Overall, my guess on why Americans don't go to other places to train is that they usually know no languages except for english and overall think the world outside USA is kinda savage overall.

I mean, yeah this, but also moving abroad to train is a massive undertaking that requires all types of visas, paperwork, etc., finding a job overseas is very difficult, and who wants to deal with all of that when your kid is still so young and has .00001% chance of being an elite-level athlete? It's one thing when a skater moves abroad in their late teens/early twenties (so they don't need a parent or guardian to take care of them) and they are already pursuing skating at an elite level. But uprooting the life of your entire family for the very small opportunity of maybe one day being an elite skater is pretty crazy, at least for US families.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would disagree. At least based on my visits to USA and my interactions with relatives who live there, Russians are much more relaxed and less focused on work and success at all costs than Americans. This is basically the main reason I refused a job in USA - too much work, too much pressure, not enough holidays and stuff.

Overall, my guess on why Americans don't go to other places to train is that they usually know no languages except for english and overall think the world outside USA is kinda savage overall.

Sorry, I should clarify.. I meant in terms of figure skating, Russia/Soviet Union is historically known for being more brutal both physically and mentally on their athletes and driving them to excellence than the US. Of course, that's being very general... obviously, there are good and bad on both sides. Though I can't really thinking of many "benevolent" Russian coaches in the vein of a Machiko Yamada/Brian Orser/Ravi Walia/Tom Z. Most Russian coaches seem very business like, and tough on their kids, and not the most supportive/comforting after bad skates. I'd say coaches like Daniil Gleichengauz as the next gen instead of old school understands the importance of making skaters feel good about themselves, even after bad skates, which is nice to see - he isn't as tough and plays the good cop to Eteri, but still pushes his students to excel. I can only hope the next generation of Russian coaches will have this attitude.

 

[koatcue]

Dnt knw how to create a new thread.


My answer is this.

Both Yuzu and Javi are rare talent jewels.

Orser is one of the best coaches in the world.
The magic only works when there is a marriage of drive, effort, rare jewel talent and orsers coaching.

Orser is a great coach but he isnt persay a magician.


Thats why I think rare jewel talents like zagitova or evgenia could benefit frm orsers coaching.

Eteri is a great coach but looking at her students skating skills except Alena K, their skating skills need improvement..

On the other hand most orser students have excellent skating skills and choreo.

Orser is really a good coach to make a rare jewel talent into GOAT or total package material.


I hope to see orser coaching a Russian jewel in my lifetime someday.

There is no perfect skaters. Everybody needs improvement in smth, not just Eteri's girls. And I disagree that NA skaters have better SS

 

[tars]

But I suppose Eteri girls do have something in their training regime that makes them stand out and keep dominatin laides field.

Raf's Angels think otherwise! :dev2:

 

[Spirals for Miles]

pssst... tars... none of Raf's Angels are RUSSIAN LADIES

 

[russianfan]

Raf's Angels think otherwise! :dev2:

Raf's Angels should win some grand prix stage at the very least so then we can talk :sarcasm:

 

[Tyranid]

Alena Kostornaia - 75.21 for the SP

https://youtu.be/yLtarvq7MxY go to +/- 2:20:40

These internal russian competitions have, seemingly, the most insane score inflation... It's good to know that we won't see these scores in international competition.
The ISU needs to either raise the senior age to 16 or rename "women's single skating" into "teenager and the remaining women's single skating". :curse:

 

[Mawwerg]

Alena Kostornaia - 75.21 for the SP

https://youtu.be/yLtarvq7MxY go to +/- 2:20:40

These internal russian competitions have, seemingly, the most insane score inflation... It's good to know that we won't see these scores in international competition.
The ISU needs to either raise the senior age to 16 or rename "women's single skating" into "teenager and the remaining women's single skating". :curse:

There are +3 for bonuses and -1 for time violation. So actually it's 73.21. Her PB internationally is 71.65 scored at JGPF. Here she increased here BV by almost 1 point due to 3Lz-3Lo combo instead of 3F-3T and gained fourth level for step sequence instead of third. So, I don't see any inflation here. She easily could score it internationally.

 

[tars]

pssst... tars... none of Raf's Angels are RUSSIAN LADIES

I know, it's just a friendly warning, that another competition arrived. :agree:

It's not only Japan and Osmond anymore.

 

[cohen-esque]

There are +3 for bonuses and -1 for time violation. So actually it's 73.21. Her PB internationally is 71.65 scored at JGPF. Here she increased here BV by almost 1 point due to 3Lz-3Lo combo instead of 3F-3T and gained fourth level for step sequence instead of third. So, I don't see any inflation here. She easily could score it internationally.

She did the 3Lz+3Lo, but not nearly with the same quality that she usually does the 3F+3T, and she did the StSq4, but not as well as she usually does the StSq3... really, she just looked less sharp all around than she normally does. Which is understandable— she’s training, but probably not with the same focus as before the JGPF or Junior Worlds, and she’s been trying to add other skills in the meantime (+3Lo, 3A). But I do think she skated noticeably worse here than at the JGPF.

Of course, by Nationals inflation standards, her scores are okay, but I’m not sure she’d get the same internationally at all.

 

[hanyuyuzuru1207]

I'm sorry but Vincent's jumping technique is honestly really terrible. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, let alone the Russian ladies.

BUT I do think there are some things that could be improved with coaches like Orser\Tracy Wilson regarding flow and SS. But the consistency of the Eteri ladies is honestly unbelievable.

Yes the mental strength of Eteri girls is the best. Which is why I became a fan..


But I do hope she considers her girls to be outsourcing their choreos to Jeff Buttle or Wilson etc.


They barely finish their choreos because they always seem rushed. Which is a shame becuz they are the most talented girls ever.

 

[lesnar001]

I know, it's just a friendly warning, that another competition arrived. :agree:

It's not only Japan and Osmond anymore.

"WHO WANTS TO BE NEXT!!!!"

"Raf's Angels? .... Tonya Harding? .... Anyone????"

https://pp.userapi.com/c846520/v846520475/2a233/39KakmQaquY.jpg



picture copyright - tars

 

[Mawwerg]

She did the 3Lz+3Lo, but not nearly with the same quality that she usually does the 3F+3T, and she did the StSq4, but not as well as she usually does the StSq3... really, she just looked less sharp all around than she normally does. Which is understandable— she’s training, but probably not with the same focus as before the JGPF or Junior Worlds, and she’s been trying to add other skills in the meantime (+3Lo, 3A). But I do think she skated noticeably worse here than at the JGPF.

Of course, by Nationals inflation standards, her scores are okay, but I’m not sure she’d get the same internationally at all.

Yeah, I agree quality at JGPF was better and she maybe will not receive 73.21 for this program at international junior circuit(at senior I think PCS boost should help). However I disagree with Tyranid's statement about insane score inflation.

 

[moriel]

Sorry, I should clarify.. I meant in terms of figure skating, Russia/Soviet Union is historically known for being more brutal both physically and mentally on their athletes and driving them to excellence than the US. Of course, that's being very general... obviously, there are good and bad on both sides. Though I can't really thinking of many "benevolent" Russian coaches in the vein of a Machiko Yamada/Brian Orser/Ravi Walia/Tom Z. Most Russian coaches seem very business like, and tough on their kids, and not the most supportive/comforting after bad skates. I'd say coaches like Daniil Gleichengauz as the next gen instead of old school understands the importance of making skaters feel good about themselves, even after bad skates, which is nice to see - he isn't as tough and plays the good cop to Eteri, but still pushes his students to excel. I can only hope the next generation of Russian coaches will have this attitude.

So why are Russian skaters so expected to go train in USA? Because this is where the discussion started.


As for coaching style, I find your desire for softer coaches highly debatable. I mean, you may want it for you, but other people way not want it for them.

For example, I disagree about the importance of making people feel good about themselves even after making major mistakes. From all my life experience, if a person makes a mistake and someone in position of authority says "nah, it is fine, dont worry", the person will make mistakes again, because it is clearly not a big deal. And, overall, that is not how grown up life works - if you do a major mess up at work, I am pretty sure your boss will not care about making you feel good

 

[yoloaxel]

Yes the mental strength of Eteri girls is the best. Which is why I became a fan..


But I do hope she considers her girls to be outsourcing their choreos to Jeff Buttle or Wilson etc.


They barely finish their choreos because they always seem rushed. Which is a shame becuz they are the most talented girls ever.

Yes I agree on the choreography! It’s good to switch it up and it would be nice to see them work with Shaw Lynn or Jeffrey

 

[colormyworld240]

Alena Kostornaia - 75.21 for the SP

https://youtu.be/yLtarvq7MxY go to +/- 2:20:40

These internal russian competitions have, seemingly, the most insane score inflation... It's good to know that we won't see these scores in international competition.
The ISU needs to either raise the senior age to 16 or rename "women's single skating" into "teenager and the remaining women's single skating". :curse:

Really? Because of all the national comp scores vs. international comp scores of skaters, I would say Alena's one of the least overscored at home.. and why would they raise the senior age to 16? This seems to be a very strange argument when concerning Alena, who skaters with more maturity than most of the senior ladies...

 

[hanyuyuzuru1207]

Really? Because of all the national comp scores vs. international comp scores of skaters, I would say Alena's one of the least overscored at home.. and why would they raise the senior age to 16? This seems to be a very strange argument when concerning Alena, who skaters with more maturity than most of the senior ladies...

Alenas PCS is sooo underscored. Her skatin skills and choreo are top notch. I think she was underscored at the very least

 

[russianfan]

haters gonna hate, Alena gonna skate