2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[moriel]

I dunno, im just puzzled with people here and trying to find some logic in it.
Its like Medvedeva. Before, most of this forum was between dislike (another overscored teenage russian with muscled jumps and a flutz) and indifference. Now, there is a thread where they are comparing her to Kwan.

- - - Updated - - -

Best junior girl ever needs to be praised not criticized.

Yep, specially not by the same Orser who is all about Stephen Gogolev being the next big thing.
PR is so PR

 

[Sugar Coated]

I think part of it has to do with people idolizing their athletes and wanting everything in their lives to be perfect, while failing to recognize that success comes with a great deal of sacrifice. One of the most winning coaches in American basketball, Phil Jackson, is famous for having a huge ego but he managed to control his stars. You can't be a pushover to win.

I do wonder if the hatred for Eteri's strictness is part cultural. Growing up, I had piano teachers who were Chinese, Korean, and Russian and they also had a strict approach and required run-throughs of pieces over and over again during practice because that's how you improve. So when I see Eteri's behavior in the documentaries, I do think she's strict, but I don't have the same horrified reaction that are elsewhere in the forums.

Overall my view on the Eteri/Evgenia thing is relatively ambivalent. However, I do find it funny how if you go on other parts of this forum or read other internet discussion places for people who are ice skaters, they will also ask questions about switching coaches. All the advice given there is to handle it delicately, talk to the coach and assure them it's not personal or anything, and then leave on good terms. That was lacking here and I don't think people should dismiss it by saying "oh, Zhenya is a teenager," or whatever. It would have been decent to give her coach of 11 years a heads up.

But she undeniably has the right to leave as well, and I do think Eteri shouldn't have gone on TV and aired things out. I wish there wouldn't be such a negative reaction on both sides because then tempers run high and it makes the forums less fun to be on.

/justmytwocents

It’s funny that you cite basketball coaches as a reference because I wanted to bringing up Brad Stevens as a contrast to Eteri but wasn’t sure anyone would get the reference. Phil Jackson is a smart coach, but he was also lucky to have some of the most talented players of the last few decades if not all time. He never struck me as impulsive or cruel like Eteri though. Eteri has had some of the best athletes flock to her - and once you have some success the rest assume you know what your doing and the top talent pools together in a sort of positive feedback loop. But the coaching style of Brad Stevens demonstrates you can be successful with less talented athletes without needing to yell or use punishment as a motivator.

There is a difference between strict and mental/physical abuse. Did you teachers ever drag you around as a child to punish you for messing up? Did they starve you? Did they force you to practice endlessly, on camera, even when you had a 103 degree fever? And then publically humiliate you on national television because you hurt their feelings? There is a difference between strict and crazy. Eteri’s recent behavior suggest she is completely without self reflection, insight, or good understanding of tactical strategy. I know some talented coaches wear their heart on their sleeves but this isn’t Eteri’s first experience with a situation like this and she made the conscious decision to approach public television. That is not a smart coach or someone who cares about the welfare of their athletes.

 

[andromache]

I dunno, im just puzzled with people here and trying to find some logic in it.
Its like Medvedeva. Before, most of this forum was between dislike (another overscored teenage russian with muscled jumps and a flutz) and indifference. Now, there is a thread where they are comparing her to Kwan.

Yep, specially not by the same Orser who is all about Stephen Gogolev being the next big thing.
PR is so PR

To be fair, I think this forum has become pro-Evgenia ever since she became the underdog, which makes sense. No one likes a favorite who never loses. I also think that some fans prefer older skaters with more maturity, which Evgenia is becoming relative to her peers.

IDK about Brian and how he promotes Gogolev. Honestly I haven't seen nearly as much online about him as I have about the Eteri girls (though Gogolev and Eteri's girls are all deserving of respect and concern).

 

[Sugar Coated]

Best junior girl ever needs to be praised not criticized.

He doesn’t have to praise anybody. He’s not insulting her, or criticizing her personally. He is just stating his opinion about the longevity of these athletes.

It reminds me of pitchers in little league. How many of the top little leauge pitchers make it to the major leagues? Very, very few. Because what is required to win at the little league level ruins their arms for the future. I’m pretty sure this was his point, that it’s yet to be seen if her success will translate to the senior levels.

 

[Elucidus]

Btw, there is rumor that Trusova now considers possibility to leave Eteri as well (I suppose it implies that there was some discussion about it with her parents or friends and their acquaintances leaked the info - but the same source claims that it's not decided yet). Which would be comical in a way considering how Eteri was offended by Orser comments about Trusova success. Well, I think it will be very foolish move if she decides to do it for obvious reasons but I can understand her too. I mean we all saw how harshly Eteri treated Trusova in documentary - and it's hard to endure such psychological abuse each day, every day. Also I remember that Zhenya is Trusova's idol and person that she admires greatly - and I only can imagine how she could feel after her coach disgraced Medvedeva publicly.

 

[lesnar001]

It‘s funny because when I showed a friend of mine who doesn’t follow figure skating two videos of Zhenya and Alina asking who she guessed was the Olympic Champion, she totally thought it was Zhenya. But not for her skating primarily but more her costum. She looked at them both and whe she saw Alina she said: „No way she‘s won the OGM. That‘s what my five year old cousin is wearing in her first skating competitions.“ And then she saw Alina skate. And suddenly she was like: „Oh my god. Why could they give such a beautiful and talented girl costumes like that, making her look like a little child compared to all these women?“

And I can‘t agree more. Alina deserves more than this. They didn‘t make Evgenia skate in tutus in her first senior season. Obviously the program worked for Alina but it just added fuel to the fire, making her look even more childish compared to Zhenya. Had she gotten a decent costume, people would have realised that she in fact doesn‘t seem like more of a little child anymore than some other skaters. But that tutus made her stand out and not in a good way.

Just my opinion, though. And that example above was not to bash Alina but rather to show that for Alina to be taken seriously she needs well designed costumes so that she‘s not just the „young jumping bean doing the most difficult program in seniors‘ skating“.

Taken seriously?

Gimme a break - she won the Olympic Gold Medal.

Who cares what your "friend who doesn't watch skating" thinks.

 

[Ophelia]

Btw, there is rumor that Trusova now considers possibility to leave Eteri as well (I suppose it implies that there was some discussion about it with her parents or friends and their acquaintances leaked the info - but the same source claims that it's not decided yet). Which would be comical in a way considering how Eteri was offended by Orser comments about Trusova success. Well, I think it will be very foolish move if she decides to do it for obvious reasons but I can understand her too. I mean we all saw how harshly Eteri treated Trusova in documentary - and it's hard to endure such psychological abuse each day, every day. Also I remember that Zhenya is Trusova's idol and person that she admires greatly - and I only can imagine how she could feel after her coach disgraced Medvedeva publicly.

Can you imagine the board meltdown if Trusova went to Orser too?

 

[vitamintea]

It’s funny that you cite basketball coaches as a reference because I wanted to bringing up Brad Stevens as a contrast to Eteri but wasn’t sure anyone would get the reference. Phil Jackson is a smart coach, but he was also lucky to have some of the most talented players of the last few decades if not all time. He never struck me as impulsive or cruel like Eteri though. Eteri has had some of the best athletes flock to her - and once you have some success the rest assume you know what your doing and the top talent pools together in a sort of positive feedback loop. But the coaching style of Brad Stevens demonstrates you can be successful with less talented athletes without needing to yell or use punishment as a motivator.

There is a difference between strict and mental/physical abuse. Did you teachers ever drag you around as a child to punish you for messing up? Did they starve you? Did they force you to practice endlessly, on camera, even when you had a 103 degree fever? And then publically humiliate you on national television because you hurt their feelings? There is a difference between strict and crazy. Eteri’s recent behavior suggest she is completely without self reflection, insight, or good understanding of tactical strategy. I know some talented coaches wear their heart on their sleeves but this isn’t Eteri’s first experience with a situation like this and she made the conscious decision to approach public television. That is not a smart coach or someone who cares about the welfare of their athletes.

Well, I think any kind of success is a combination of skill and luck. Phil had a ton of issues for sure, but the reason I used him as an example and not someone else is because I think the teams he coached (Bulls, Lakers) are more analogous to figure skating where you have more of a "star" instead of everything being a team effort. I like your point about Brad Stevens but I wouldn't use him as an example of perfect coaching yet—after all, he hasn't won a ring, and he hasn't had to deal with any egos yet (like having a breakout star who doesn't like his role on the team anymore). (And also on the Celtics, the way they handled the Isaiah situation? That was a good eye opener into how sports really is just business, I mean the guy sacrificed his health! Should Brad Stevens have stopped him from playing? Idk) However, he's getting a lot out of this team (more than anyone could have expected) but they're definitely going down to LeBron in the next round. I do like him a lot as a coach and I hope newer generations follow in that line of accommodating the players rather than fighting them. /offtopic (sorry)

And as to the Eteri point—if that's true, then I will definitely take back my words. If you go through my post history you'll see I'm a new-ish fan, and only started following it seriously in 2017 (just in time for Olympics!) so I wasn't tuned in when Yulia was under Eteri. My opinion of her was formed based on that "Of Fire and Ice" documentary and the Evgenia one that just came out, and I thought she yelled a lot but didn't see too much cause for concern. But like I said earlier, I don't fault Evgenia for leaving at all. I truly do wish her the best and maybe that she'll compete at Skate America this year since she's so close (and I have tickets! )

 

[Elucidus]

Can you imagine the board meltdown if Trusova went to Orser too?

Not happening as Orser is against quads for juniors and excessive jumping - as he said himself. And Trusova loves quads and jumps.

 

[SnowWhite]

Not happening as Orser is against quads for juniors and excessive jumping - as he said himself. And Trusova loves quads and jumps.

He's not against quads for juniors, but he is against excessive jumping, in terms of staying healthy. He talks about that with Stephen Gogolev. The kid had his 4S at 10 and his 3A before that. He's now 13 and has competed the 4T too, landed a 4Lz in warmup at Nationals, and IIRC correctly, landed 4F and 4Lo in training too. Brian's not against that. But he says that to keep him healthy while he's growing, they carefully manage how many quads he does and how often. Sometimes even not jumping for a week or two if he has some pain.

I mean, I do not think at all that Trusova will go to him, but I don't think that the comment he made about her quads means he's against quads for juniors. Unless he made some other comments I didn't see about quads for junior ladies specifically.

But anyways, like you said, she's not going to go, so it's irrelevant.

 

[charlotte14]

Sorry I am asking, who is the man in the first several seconds of this video that led Anna Shcherbakova to competition?
https://youtu.be/mI1xtVvWfcI

He is at Sambo 70 as well? I never saw him before.

Thanks

 

[Katie0906]

Sorry I am asking, who is the man in the first several seconds of this video that led Anna Shcherbakova to competition?
https://youtu.be/mI1xtVvWfcI

He is at Sambo 70 as well? I never saw him before.

Thanks

He was like the asst.coach esp.with the juniors,hes good looking isn't it

 

[madison]

Sorry I am asking, who is the man in the first several seconds of this video that led Anna Shcherbakova to competition?
https://youtu.be/mI1xtVvWfcI

He is at Sambo 70 as well? I never saw him before.

Thanks

He's Sergei Rozanov, He is also coach in Eteri camp since last summer.

 

[charlotte14]

He was like the asst.coach esp.with the juniors,hes good looking isn't it

He looks new so I wonder anyone knows who he is?
EDITED: I have found him. Thanks

 

[Watch]

Overall, I find highly interesting how people hate Eteri here.
For example, why aren't those same folks bashing Plushenko for what he said about Sima? I recall Buyanova was pretty sincere when Adelina left her too.

Honestly, I didn't have that much against her before the thing she pulled on tv, despite hearing the iffy stuff about her methods (I still thought, it can't be that bad). Now I do. There's a world of difference, I think, between just being (overly?) upfront about why your skater left and going on the main national tv channel to publish text messages, pour gasolin over the rivalry between your former and current student and, yes, outright lie about when you learned about the separation in a prime-time news segment.

 

[colormyworld240]

Can you imagine the board meltdown if Trusova went to Orser too?

She and Gogolev can switch to pairs, and do SBS quad lutz. And throw quint :clapper:

 

[zounger]

But he says that to keep him healthy while he's growing, they carefully manage how many quads he does and how often. Sometimes even not jumping for a week or two if he has some pain.

I mean, I do not think at all that Trusova will go to him, but I don't think that the comment he made about her quads means he's against quads for juniors. Unless he made some other comments I didn't see about quads for junior ladies specifically.

But anyways, like you said, she's not going to go, so it's irrelevant.

To be fair this similar to what Daniil said about Trusova recently. But i don't know maybe the are more lenient with quads than Orser or because she is already competing at international level.

 

[Grin]

Icenetwork article about Evgenia-Eteri-BOrser
http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2018/05/07/275657578

 

[r2d2]

Question for the Russian speakers, why are the Russian forums/posts referring to Evgenia as Бабасян? I see that's her father's last name, but is there a reason they're using it now?

people who dont like Medvedeva call her Babasyan. her father is Armenian. so they want to underline that she is not their Russian skater.

 

[colormyworld240]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bie9Dm3Drrd/?taken-by=nastya_gubanchik
Gubanova and TAT

This is difficult for me to stomach. Remember when Nastia skated as a swan and TAT called her a duck. Or just this year at Junior Nats TAT walked out her skate. But now she's at CSKA and TAT suddenly is all smiles with her. On one hand I'm super happy Nastia is finally getting recognition and love, but I'm sure she knows it's fake AF. But what can you do, have to play the game...