2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Ophelia]

Why does Russia have such an issue with its Fed funding foreign coaches but virtually every other country, even those with "poorer" feds, are okay with funding their skaters to train abroad?

 

[Hello from Brazil]

Sorry I don’t get this logic. All Skaters in the national team deserve their funding. Where they invest the funding is their own issue. Their job is to compete well and get the medals. And that’s the main point. If Russian fed gives Med the same amount of funding she is getting now it’s fair. If that funding isn’t enough for Med to pay Orser, it’s not Russian’s fed issue. She has to pay the rest by herself and it seems she knows that very well. Just because she has chosen to practice outside of the country it doesn’t mean she should not get the same funding of a legit national team member.

Couldn't agree more, especially when we're talking about someone who was undefeated for 2 seasons and won Olympic silver with a broken foot (no to mention the gp and European medals).

 

[Farnaz]

Well, you see a skater receives funding while training in russia. This money is spent on russian stuff. You know, so the skater for example buys food produced by a local farm, for example. In a local store that employs local people. The rink employees are local too, and so on.
So while this money does not produce medals, it is still used to support the russian business and people, on a very small scale.

So if you spent an amount X for the skater to train in russia, most of this money will be paid to russian people and for russian products also, not just on the possible medals the skater will win.
Money spent outside the country is just possible medals.

Let's compare it to science that is my specialty. Many countries give scholarships to their grad students to continue their education abroad. These students live in a foreign country and spend the money that they get from their birthplace government in that foreign country. The hope is that they obtain a level of education and knowledge that would benefit their home country upon return in future. Now, in case of Medvedeva the government does not need to wait 5-6 years, they gain the benefit right now every time that she stands on a podium. At the end of the day, this is the way that an athlete can repay his/her home country, right?

In summary, paying for young talents to live abroad and gain whatever they need for their progress is a very common procedure that most of governments follow in a wide variety of disciplines. Neither Russian Federation nor Medvedeva are doing sth strange or unheard of here

 

[vorravorra]

In my oppinion, they are totally free to do it, with their own personal money. I don't want government to fund it.

Well you see, I really dont want government pay USD110/hr to some foreign dude while my grandma earns USD250 a month.
Just repeating, for the 10th time or so. Athletes are fine to go wherever they want, just not with government money. RUssian government has no money to pay Orser $110/hr, period.
If Medvedeva can afford Orser, sure, she can train with him. If she cannot, well, we not always can afford the stuff we want, thats life.

Who said the Russian state is going to pay Orser's fees?

 

[charlotte14]

In my oppinion, they are totally free to do it, with their own personal money. I don't want government to fund it.
Well you see, I really dont want government pay USD110/hr to some foreign dude while my grandma earns USD250 a month.
Just repeating, for the 10th time or so. Athletes are fine to go wherever they want, just not with government money. RUssian government has no money to pay Orser $110/hr, period.
If Medvedeva can afford Orser, sure, she can train with him. If she cannot, well, we not always can afford the stuff we want, thats life.

I also repeat this which is common sense. Any member of the national team deserves to get their funding and whatever they do with that funding, whether to spend on costumes or foreign coaches... is their own decision and it’s totally fine. They get the funding to train and medal for Russian fed. They get the funding because it’s the rules of Russian fed and it’s their rights to get the funding. They do not have the responsibility to create jobs for the Russian. That’s not their issue. Even if the funding that Med will get is small, she deserves it because she’s a member of the national team. If she decides to use that money only on costumes it’s totally fine. The end.

 

[vorravorra]

Why does Russia have such an issue with its Fed funding foreign coaches but virtually every other country, even those with "poorer" feds, are okay with funding their skaters to train abroad?

Poorer Feds pay for their students to train abroad because they don't have decent coaches at home, which is not true of Russian ladies. That's one perspective. On the other hand, why does everyone think Medvedeva is not going to pay Orser herself? What is being talked about is the same amount of funding any member of Team Russia receives. And if she still skates for Russia, she is going to pay the Fed a percentage of her earnings just like everyone else. And her earnings are not trivial. People insist on forgetting this is a two-way street. And quite probably Sambo-70 will also get a cut because she still officially represents them. Not as much as Eteri took, though. That was 30% of everything Zhenya earned.

 

[Ophelia]

Poorer Feds pay for their students to train abroad because they don't have decent coaches at home, which is not true of Russian ladies. That's one perspective.

Japan? America? Canada?

 

[DeeDee18]

if the fed pays for the coaches in Russia (ie. those figure skaters dont pay anything), why would they force medvedeva to pay everything herself? it only makes sense to contribute lol

 

[Skye]

Why does Russia have such an issue with its Fed funding foreign coaches but virtually every other country, even those with "poorer" feds, are okay with funding their skaters to train abroad?

Not that I agree with @moriel at all, but I believe some other countries too have an "issue" with funding skaters training abroad. AFAIK Chinese skaters have experienced difficulties receiving permission from the fed to train abroad under foreign coaches and the Korean fed provides funding only for skaters that train within Korea. My guess is that the "poorer" feds don't have much say because their support is minimum, or practically non-existent.

 

[vorravorra]

Japan? America? Canada?

I haven't said that is a perspective I share, but some people in this thread seem to.
This idea that training in Russia is free is rather... exaggerated, anyway. It is uncertain who actually gets more money from Zhenya in the end, Orser or Eteri. Orser at least has a flat fee and doesn't care if Zhenya earns gazillions of dollars.

 

[Ophelia]

Not that I agree with @moriel at all, but I believe some other countries too have an "issue" with funding skaters training abroad. AFAIK Chinese skaters have experienced difficulties receiving permission from the fed to train abroad under foreign coaches and the Korean fed provides funding only for skaters that train within Korea. My guess is that the "poorer" feds don't have much say because their support is minimum, or practically non-existent.

So Jun-Hwan Cha and Eun Soo Lim are paying out of their own pockets? Doesn't seem likely...

 

[vorravorra]

if the fed pays for the coaches in Russia (ie. those figure skaters dont pay anything), why would they force medvedeva to pay everything herself? it only makes sense to contribute lol

You have to remember that funding mainly goes into the facilities, not coaches' personal pockets. Coaches are paid a salary, not individually for each student. Say Zhenya and Alina as Team Russia members each get X money for ice time. This money is paid to the club not to them personally. And it doesn't only fund their ice time, but everyone else who shares the ice with them, they don't each get a chunk of ice time solely to themselves.

 

[WhiteProphet]

Not that I agree with @moriel at all, but I believe some other countries too have an "issue" with funding skaters training abroad. AFAIK Chinese skaters have experienced difficulties receiving permission from the fed to train abroad under foreign coaches and the Korean fed provides funding only for skaters that train within Korea. My guess is that the "poorer" feds don't have much say because their support is minimum, or practically non-existent.

Orser said he was paid by Yuna 550 USD a week, did she paid that wage by herself?

 

[yoloaxel]

It just seems silly to me because obviously Medvedeva's case is an exception and she is literally RusFed most successful active athlete at the moment. The idea that they would support her seems obvious to me, whether she trains in Russia, Canada or Hawaii. I'm sure whatever they choose to give her Rusfed won't implode and there will still be money for younger athletes to be supported.

 

[Skye]

So Jun-Hwan Cha and Eun Soo Lim are paying out of their own pockets? Doesn't seem likely...

Actually I heard that yes both skaters (as well as the pairs and ice dancers who also train abroad) are paying out of their own pockets with some support from private sponsors. This topic came up recently when Eunsoo moved to Lake Arrowhead and some fans were speculating whether KSF had anything to do with the move.

 

[kwanatic]

Actually I heard that yes both skaters (as well as the pairs and ice dancers who also train abroad) are paying out of their own pockets with some support from private sponsors. This topic came up recently when Eunsoo moved to Lake Arrowhead and some fans were speculating whether KSF had anything to do with the move.

If that's true that's just silly. Korea doesn't have a strong program right now despite the fact they have several good skaters. Why wouldn't the government fund them to train elsewhere if it means their program will grow?

I guess nationalism/patriotism can reach a point where it overrules common sense :disapp:. Seems like that happens a lot in the world nowadays...

 

[Sugar Coated]

Well, you see a skater receives funding while training in russia. This money is spent on russian stuff. You know, so the skater for example buys food produced by a local farm, for example. In a local store that employs local people. The rink employees are local too, and so on.
So while this money does not produce medals, it is still used to support the russian business and people, on a very small scale.

So if you spent an amount X for the skater to train in russia, most of this money will be paid to russian people and for russian products also, not just on the possible medals the skater will win.
Money spent outside the country is just possible medals.

While I completely understand your view as a tax payer, I’m pretty sure RusFed’s main objective is to earn medals, not stimulate the local economy. Ideally they would do both but end of the day the priority is producing winning skaters.

 

[moriel]

Let's compare it to science that is my specialty. Many countries give scholarships to their grad students to continue their education abroad. These students live in a foreign country and spend the money that they get from their birthplace government in that foreign country. The hope is that they obtain a level of education and knowledge that would benefit their home country upon return in future. Now, in case of Medvedeva the government does not need to wait 5-6 years, they gain the benefit right now every time that she stands on a podium. At the end of the day, this is the way that an athlete can repay his/her home country, right?

In summary, paying for young talents to live abroad and gain whatever they need for their progress is a very common procedure that most of governments follow in a wide variety of disciplines. Neither Russian Federation nor Medvedeva are doing sth strange or unheard of here

Yep, i currently live in such a country.
Brazil pays for their students to study abroad, and then, instead of returning to Brazil, they all go to work in US / Europe because there is better pay ^^

 

[moriel]

While I completely understand your view as a tax payer, I’m pretty sure RusFed’s main objective is to earn medals, not stimulate the local economy. Ideally they would do both but end of the day the priority is producing winning skaters.

Well, you see, Russia is not just rusfed.
There is this thing. I mean, try doing the following:
- take the most well known figure skating of the current top crop in your country.
- take the average pension value
- then go asking people on the street if it would be fine if your government paid for the said skater to train overseas with a coach that charges an hourly rate equal to half of that pension value.
- see people's reaction

 

[vorravorra]

Well, you see, Russia is not just rusfed.
There is this thing. I mean, try doing the following:
- take the most well known figure skating of the current top crop in your country.
- take the average pension value
- then go asking people on the street if it would be fine if your government paid for the said skater to train overseas with a coach that charges an hourly rate equal to half of that pension value.
- see people's reaction

I don't think you even have to go outside and ask people to realise very few actually support fully funding Med's training with Orser.