2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[russianfan]

funny fact about Masha is that even being the most criticized and dismissed russian skater at those Olympics she still placed higher than any of US skaters

Yes, I know, everybody was thinking of a Russian podium sweep and instead Caro sneaked in and took 3rd Must be terrible, though, seeing your copatriots on a podium realising that if you had just been a little better (one place to be correct) you could stand there with them. I feel sad for her, but well. I feel sad for a lot of overlooked skaters.

It was more like an issue with judges, she skated good enough to take that bronze. That was one of the most absurd results i've ever seen.

 

[Shayuki]

Ksenia Melkumova new FS

Ah, now I got this one as well. I really REALLY hope the direction for the next season is having these involved programs that she can skate clean. Well, she still had a fall there... But what she did right after getting up really impressed me.

Who is this? Which group does she train in? She‘s really good. Personally, I love her spins.

Ksenia Melkumova! She was born on May 1 2009 so she just recently turned 9. She trains at Moskvich, which is more of a children's development school, really. It'll be interesting to see which school ends up picking her up.

 

[Fluture]

funny fact about Masha is that even being the most criticized and dismissed russian skater at those Olympics she still placed higher than any of US skaters

Well, that might be because the US field isn‘t all that glorious right now. Who did they have at the Olympics? Mirai, who has a bit of a 30:70 chance to land her 3A (30 being the times she really lands it just to be clear...), Karen Chen who‘s ... I don‘t know anything about her so let‘s not judge and Bradie Tennell who‘s well... I‘m not saying all junior skaters have better artistry than her but I‘m saying at least Alena and Anna have. These are the top skaters (arguably Ashley Wagner‘s in there too) in the US. Whereas in Russia we have: Evgenia Medvedeva, Alina Zagitova, Polina Tsurskaya, Anastasia Gubanova, Daria Panenkova, Stanislava Konstantinova, Elena Radionova, Anna Pogorilaya and Maria Sotskova (and I’m sure I forgot somebody important) who are all contestants for the senior spots. And in juniors: Alexandra Trusova, Anna Sherbakova, Alena Kostornaya and so on...

That‘s probably only natural. With so much competition, even some who could be decent in a different country get heavily criticized. That‘s life, I‘d say.

 

[[email protected]]

And Koola King seems to be unable to recognize that the video angle is important when analyzing this sort of thing. Anya has an entrance similar to Alina's that sort of makes it appear a little inside but isn't. Plus, the outside edge doesn't have to be as deep as Yuna's in order to be an outside edge. Wonder what Koola King thinks of Anastasia Tarakanova though... an Eteri girl with the deepest outside edge lutz I've ever seen...

watch this end up in a video too! I'm famous it seems :

And I posted many times pictures showing that Wakaba who is praised for text book lutz has at best flat edge at the take-off. I received the answer that at the take-off her weight is already off the left foot so that no one should care about the edge. Has this Kooola person ever bothered to take a look at Wakaba's lutz edge or this "privilege" is only for Russian girls?

 

[KiraraChin]

Yeah, of course, that‘s something we have to take into consideration as well. If both are on, Alina will undoubtedly win. That‘s for sure. But I‘m afraid for her mental condition that‘s it. I imagine myself in her situation and... it‘s not somewhere I‘d want to be. Firstly she has Trusova and Sherbakova and Kostornaya and their quads breathing down her neck every day and secondly, Eteri has basically declared war on BO (yes, I am exaggerating here, no need to confirm) and Alina‘s her single senior lady so... she‘s going to put a lot of pressure on her. I just hope she manages to keep her nerves in check. I‘m not worried about her skating, I‘m worried about her mind and that‘s something they need to handle carefully.

We don't know that. Alina only ever beat an injured Zhenya so far. We haven't had a duel with both of them in good health yet.

But I agree with your concerns about Alina. That OGM weighs. Seeing the junior performing quads and 3As on a daily basis must be difficult - will she want to match them, and will Eteri let her? She'll be Eteri's main senior so she'll be under pressure to be consistent. I bet she's missing Zhenya, too.

 

[[email protected]]

I‘m not a great fan of Masha either and her programs are always so... bland.

Come on, Black magic woman was anything but bland.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

We don't know that. Alina only ever beat an injured Zhenya so far. We haven't had a duel with both of them in good health yet.

They met at 2017 Russian Nationals were Zhenya won. Not sure if it counts though since Alina was still a junior but she had the same FS program. I’m so ready to see see her do a different program.

 

[KiraraChin]

They met at 2017 Russian Nationals were Zhenya won. Not sure if it counts though since Alina was still a junior but she had the same FS program. I’m so ready to see see her do a different program.

Exactly. We just can't say that Alina would win every time, because Zhenya's circumstances last season were far from ideal - and yet the point difference between them at the Olympics was so small! Hopefully we'll get see both of them competing at the height of their powers this season.

 

[Fluture]

We don't know that. Alina only ever beat an injured Zhenya so far. We haven't had a duel with both of them in good health yet.

But I agree with your concerns about Alina. That OGM weighs. Seeing the junior performing quads and 3As on a daily basis must be difficult - will she want to match them, and will Eteri let her? She'll be Eteri's main senior so she'll be under pressure to be consistent. I bet she's missing Zhenya, too.

Yeah, Zhenya was injured, that‘s true. But she was still skating three clean programs at this OG, even set a world record with one of them. Which was beaten by Alina only minutes later. And now she has a new coach and everything, needs to adjust to a completely new environment and come back from an injury. That‘s not easy to overcome, even for someone like Zhenya. But Alina will have problems, too. So, yeah, it‘s not written in stone who‘s going to win. But if they‘re both clean and Zhenya doesn‘t up her technical content (I don‘t know if she will... with her injury and everything she might decide to take it slow. But on the other hand... it‘s the last season before Quad juniors become seniors, so... she might go for it) it‘s more likely that Alina will win. She has the technical advantage and an OGM to back that up, too. But who knows. She‘s struggled with SP last season and now she has two new programs, instead of one so... that will take time to get consistency on, too. Some interesting duels are ahead, I‘d say.

Come on, Black magic woman was anything but bland.

I don‘t know that programs of her. I was talking about the Olympic season in which I found them quite bland. Maybe she had interesting programs in the past but for OG, you need something catchy.

They met at 2017 Russian Nationals were Zhenya won. Not sure if it counts though since Alina was still a junior but she had the same FS program. I’m so ready to see see her do a different program.

Yes, but Alina was nowhere as famous then at least compared to Zhenya. Zhenya was their top senior lady, she‘d probably even have won with major mistakes.

 

[zounger]

Exactly. We just can't say that Alina would win every time, because Zhenya's circumstances last season were far from ideal - and yet the point difference between them at the Olympics was so small! Hopefully we'll get see both of them competing at the height of their powers this season.

As you said we don't' know. That's some hypothetical discussion that we have. But to be fair both wise it's not so correct to compare last year Alina's performance. Plus if the lutz was called in Olympics the difference should have been around 4-5 points and making the win to look even easier.

My opinion, even if Evgenia was in her 2017 season self could have lost to clean Alina. A clean Evgenia vs clean Alina, with the new rules, will be very interesting to see. I'm assuming here that they will have similar PCS with 1-2 point head to Evgenia.

 

[KiraraChin]

Yeah, Zhenya was injured, that‘s true. But she was still skating three clean programs at this OG, even set a world record with one of them. Which was beaten by Alina only minutes later. And now she has a new coach and everything, needs to adjust to a completely new environment and come back from an injury. That‘s not easy to overcome, even for someone like Zhenya. But Alina will have problems, too. So, yeah, it‘s not written in stone who‘s going to win. But if they‘re both clean and Zhenya doesn‘t up her technical content (I don‘t know if she will... with her injury and everything she might decide to take it slow. But on the other hand... it‘s the last season before Quad juniors become seniors, so... she might go for it) it‘s more likely that Alina will win. She has the technical advantage and an OGM to back that up, too. But who knows. She‘s struggled with SP last season and now she has two new programs, instead of one so... that will take time to get consistency on, too. Some interesting duels are ahead, I‘d say.

I know, even with the injuries Zhenya managed to skate clean and break world records. Amazing, right? But last season she wanted to up her TES but couldn't because of the injuries. This season, she already said that her aim is to complicate her program to the maximum and challenge the Quad Salchow. As for Alina, depending on the change of rules she might have to drop the backloading, and like I said, Eteri might not want her to try to complicate her TES further because she'll need consistency. So, there are a lots of questions marks around, and I think the next season will be very different from the previous one, in many ways.

 

[KiraraChin]

As you said we don't' know. That's some hypothetical discussion that we have. But to be fair both wise it's not so correct to compare last year Alina's performance. Plus if the lutz was called in Olympics the difference should have been around 4-5 points and making the win to look even easier.

My opinion, even if Evgenia was in her 2017 season self could have lost to clean Alina. A clean Evgenia vs clean Alina, with the new rules, will be very interesting to see. I'm assuming here that they will have similar PCS with 1-2 point head to Evgenia.

What if the judges didn't inflate Alina's PCS through the roof? Would could play this game all night

 

[zounger]

What if the judges didn't inflate Alina's PCS through the roof? Would could play this game all night

Actually not. That was something very objective. You are now going to the subjective way, and yes this may lead to many nights and not only one. I'm stopping it here.

 

[Fluture]

I know, even with the injuries Zhenya managed to skate clean and break world records. Amazing, right? But last season she wanted to up her TES but couldn't because of the injuries. This season, she already said that her aim is to complicate her program to the maximum and challenge the Quad Salchow. As for Alina, depending on the change of rules she might have to drop the backloading, and like I said, Eteri might not want her to try to complicate her TES further because she'll need consistency. So, there are a lots of questions marks around, and I think the next season will be very different from the previous one, in many ways.

Zhenya just is amazing. But a quad salchow? With Eteri, maybe, but Orser? Never. That‘s just not his way. He said they‘ll start to rework the jumps (specially the lutz). He‘s known for getting a solid base first before trying quads or other things like that. And if you rework your jump (even if it’s only one cause her Salchow’s totally fine) there‘s no time to add a quad along the way. But you‘re right, the rule changes might be in Zhenya‘s favor. (I even think they are) So, in conclusion we just can‘t know, we can only make guesses and predictions and maybe none of them will be true. Maybe Kaetlyn Osmond and Carolina Kostner will come up and jump a 3A and beat our ladies all the way. Who knows.

(Just to clarify: I was kidding here...)

What if the judges didn't inflate Alina's PCS through the roof? Would could play this game all night

That‘s what I think, too. Yes, Alina‘s got the technical side speaking for her but artistically, Evgenia‘s just better. Even if one doesn‘t like her miming. So, I‘d say, if both were judged correctly, they‘re pretty much even. Which makes it so interesting.

 

[zounger]

Zhenya just is amazing. But a quad salchow? With Eteri, maybe, but Orser? Never. That‘s just not his way.

At some point, she will ( my feeling by end of next season). It's not about Orser's approach, but a necessity. In that case, both Eteri and Orser will have done the same.

As for Alina updating her TES so far she didn't given signs that she is able to do 3A or quad. Plus she is on body changes period, it will be risky to train on that. Most likely next season will be for her as well.

Alena K, apparently worked/tried on 3A even during the season so they will try to make it stable. I don't think they will go for 4T, again because it's to risky and I expect her to have body changes next year. So two difficult elements in one summer it's too much. People may critisize Eteri by pushing the girls for TES but I find the aproach very carefull so far.

Even Trusova learned the quads in two year period, by taking it step by step. Same with Anna.

 

[KiraraChin]

Actually not. That was something very objective. You are now going to the subjective way, and yes this may lead to many nights and not only one. I'm stopping it here.

Yeah, the judges "subjectively" decided to inflate the PCS of her programs over time...

 

[Shayuki]

Yeah, the judges "subjectively" decided to inflate the PCS of her programs over time...

The point is that PCS is subjective but something like a deep inside lutz edge is not.

One can easily say that Medvedeva's PCS itself is inflated.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Dear Golden Skaters,

Please note that this is the Russian Ladies thread. If she skates for Russia or has skated for Russia in the past please feel free to discuss her here. Otherwise lets keep comments about her (or him) at a minimum. Please do not derail the thread by talking about skaters from other countries or male skaters. Male skaters have their own threads and if you'd like to bring up a salient issue that is not focused on Russian Ladies please start your own thread. All conversation in this thread should focus on and primarily be about Russian Ladies. Talking about other topics is an attempt to hijack the thread and will result in a warning or, if you have been warned before, an infraction.

The same is true for the threads about American Ice Dancers, Japanese Men or Canadian Pairs (etc, etc, etc). Stay on topic. If you want to compare Russian Ladies to Japanese Ladies then start a thread about it. Short mentions are fine but otherwise keep the threads that are specifically about a certain type of skater on topic. Attempting to hijack a thread is disrespectful to your fellow posters and just means your post will, if deemed off topic, get deleted.

Thank you.

 

[moriel]

Yeah, the judges "subjectively" decided to inflate the PCS of her programs over time...

I think the user means that we cannot really do PCs.
TES is kinda objective - you see a wrong edge for example, that was not called, you do the math, you have the scores.

Now PCs are subjective - its all us saying "well she should get less, well she should get more blablabla". There is no objective criteria we can use.

 

[KiraraChin]

The point is that PCS is subjective but something like a deep inside lutz edge is not.

One can easily say that Medvedeva's PCS itself is inflated.

I didn't say it wasn't. My point is both of them benefit from the "generosity" from the judges.