2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[cohen-esque]

The point is to find flaws in the skaters who threaten one's favorites.

I just find the double standards pretty amusing. Such a big deal that someone's Lutz edge might or might not sometimes be flat. Not even incorrect edge, but flat. And not the entire time, but switching to flat right at the end(Something that doesn't even get called !). I'll still maintain that it's a slight outside, though.

I’m simply responding to other poster’s comments about skaters edges, and stating why I think it’s fair to say Shcherbakova has slight Lutz edge issues. You are going to lengths to dismiss perfectly reasonable posts apparently out of insecurity, so accusing others of having an agenda is laughable.

And besides, just about all my favorites these days are in Men and Pairs, so they certainly aren’t threatened by a Junior girl who has yet to make it to Seniors.

 

[cohen-esque]

Very doubtful statement, sorry. It's simple logic - you see only one camera when you are considering a jump on video of presentation. Judges can watch videos from many cameras.

No, no they can’t. They get just the one angle, and it has blind spots. It’s been discussed ad nauseum on these forums before.

 

[chopinskate]

And besides, just about all my favorites these days are in Men and Pairs, so they certainly aren’t threatened by a Junior girl who has yet to make it to Seniors.

Oh, but you know, everyone was posting about how the men should be scared of 4Lz(!)<-3T<<-3Lo<<. I'm sure Yuzuru Hanyu and Boyang Jin are extremely scared. And Sui and Han are shuddering about how much larger these jumps are than their 3Fth.

 

[Orlov]

Ermmm, no. We often have better camera views in angle and resolution.

No, no they can’t. They get just the one angle, and it has blind spots. It’s been discussed ad nauseum on these forums before.

Video cameras shoot much more information than there is in the video (because there are a lot of them). This information is available to the judges. I do not know what else you can talk about.

BTW, I could turn it around and say that you call people lutz ubers because they usually call out your favourites skaters. Quite an easy turn-around.

Yeaaah... only on my side is a comparatively objective thing - a protocol compiled by nine specialists.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Watch us hit 300 pages even before JGP assignments...

 

[zounger]

Watch us hit 300 pages even before JGP assignments...

Wasn't that the purpose?

 

[caballe]

Frankly, I find the chaos of this thread entertaining.

But I do think that every GS thread would be a much healthier place if everyone stopped complaining about the judges 24/7.
If you think the PCS scores are wrongly given in literally every competition,
Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your definition of PCS.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Video cameras shoot much more information than there is in the video (because there are a lot of them). This information is available to the judges.

And where are you getting that info from?

If you think the PCS scores are wrongly given in literally every competition,
Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your definition of PCS.

You mean we should stop reading the actual rule book, stop expecting judges to follow the rule book, or...? :think:

 

[frallik]

The point is to find flaws in the skaters who threaten one's favorites.

I just find the double standards pretty amusing. Such a big deal that someone's Lutz edge might or might not sometimes be flat. Not even incorrect edge, but flat. And not the entire time, but switching to flat right at the end(Something that doesn't even get called !). I'll still maintain that it's a slight outside, though.
Tursynbaeva regressed heavily under Orser, that's for sure. She became a snoozefest to watch and lost almost all her jumps. I'm looking forward to her with Eteri so much.

a ha-ha... NO Tursynbaeva's trainings leaks. ET condition for return of Elizabeth was GPF 1-3 and 4CC Winner. Let's see... Once ET sad to Medvedeva - I am not going to work with you to get you in the top ten.

 

[Shayuki]

Oh, but you know, everyone was posting about how the men should be scared of 4Lz(!)<-3T<<-3Lo<<. I'm sure Yuzuru Hanyu and Boyang Jin are extremely scared. And Sui and Han are shuddering about how much larger these jumps are than their 3Fth.

If you think that's accurate you probably need to check it again. For starters, the Lutz is fully around. And neither of the triples are downgrades.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Wasn't that the purpose?

Yes
it's just amusing because we're already halfway to last season's end mark

 

[Fluture]

The thing with lutz edge is that we often use videos with not very high quality as a reference, so a flat edge isn‘t that easy to see. Personally, I think there‘s a bit too much attention put on lutz edges but that‘s just a feeling. Because, well, quite a lot of (top) skaters flutz regularly and to me, a flutz isn‘t as much of a problem aesthetically whereas UR or even falls definitely are. But yeah, this is still a sport so I guess discussing the correct technique is perfectly fine. I‘d say out of senior ladies Tuktamysheva has one of the best lutzes. Carolina Kostner‘s (even though she’s obviously not Russian) edge is also very textbook and if she lands it, the jump looks beautiful. (E.g. Sochi) But well. There‘s the IF. And it‘s a pretty big if. Kostornaya has a flat edge sometimes but it‘s tolerable most of the time. Same with Sherbakova. Alina‘s and Sasha‘s lutzes are fine in my opinion.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

The thing with lutz edge is that we often use videos with not very high quality as a reference, so a flat edge isn‘t that easy to see. Personally, I think there‘s a bit too much attention put on lutz edges but that‘s just a feeling. Because, well, quite a lot of (top) skaters flutz regularly and to me, a flutz isn‘t as much of a problem aesthetically whereas UR or even falls definitely are. But yeah, this is still a sport so I guess discussing the correct technique is perfectly fine. I‘d say out of senior ladies Tuktamysheva has one of the best lutzes. Carolina Kostner‘s (even though she’s obviously not Russian) edge is also very textbook and if she lands it, the jump looks beautiful. (E.g. Sochi) But well. There‘s the IF. And it‘s a pretty big if. Kostornaya has a flat edge sometimes but it‘s tolerable most of the time. Same with Sherbakova. Alina‘s and Sasha‘s lutzes are fine in my opinion.

Just wanted to say that I love this post!!

 

[Orlov]

And where are you getting that info from?

Did you notice that the skater is shooting by not one, but many cameras? Sometimes it show to us on video repeats (we are obviously see only a small part of the repeats). Or you doubt that the judges have full access to the footage? Then you have to prove this to me (because it is not obvious and strange).

 

[Tulipstar]

Oh, but you know, everyone was posting about how the men should be scared of 4Lz(!)<-3T<<-3Lo<<. I'm sure Yuzuru Hanyu and Boyang Jin are extremely scared. And Sui and Han are shuddering about how much larger these jumps are than their 3Fth.

I didn't see anyone posting anything like this, except as a joke.

 

[alvina9894]

Did you notice that the skater is shooting by not one, but many cameras? Sometimes it show to us on video repeats (we are obviously see only a small part of the repeats). Or you doubt that the judges have full access to the footage? Then you have to prove this to me (because it is not obvious and strange).

Guess what, you are indeed correct. The judges do not get multiple views, and they replay with a small screen.
Take a look at any photos taken of the tech panel and you'll see the standard equipment.

Alas, for Shcherbakova's edges (from the same competition)
https://i.loli.net/2018/05/13/5af80fe42f241.gif
https://i.loli.net/2018/05/13/5af80fe4336a8.gif
I find them identically flat.

 

[Orlov]

The judges do not get multiple views

Prove it. (cuz we talking about edge need prove that technical controller do not get multiple views)

and they replay with a small screen.
Take a look at any photos taken of the tech panel and you'll see the standard equipment.

For me - normal size monitor
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-m...er-yulia-lipnitskaya-of-russia-125155805.html
and of course their resolution is better than those of these gif

https://i.loli.net/2018/05/13/5af80fe42f241.gif

 

[[email protected]]

It's a sport, and believe it or not there will be comparisons and discussions about the aspects of the sport. The edge of a lutz is a discussion because it comes with a BV reduction, but it isn't called for some skaters.

My problem with edge discussions is that certain people pick on certain skaters. Like there are users who may have posted no less than hundred times about Medvedeva's wrong edge (it's wrong indeed) and at the same time not a single time about Osmond's wrong edge. And this results in a biased standpoint vs. Evgeniya. Because it was a period of time when her lutz calls mattered only relative to Kaetlyn's as everybody else was far behind in scores and those calls would have changed nothing in standings. Recently, as Zagitova has become a top player and her edge is good the lack of Medvedeva's calls suddenly started to matter. Like with those calls Alina's OG win would have lost any controversy at all. But Medvedeva is with Orser now and ironically I expect much less negativity than before.

A "favorite" topic of mine was Wakaba's lutz edge. I posted more than once pictures where it is quite clear that she gets into the air with flat edge at best. And we finished those discussions with an agreement that at this particular moment her weight is no longer on this foot, hence, the edge does not matter. Now I see the same stuff but concerning Scherbakova. I wonder if people investing time in studying Scherbakova would apply the same rigorous analysis regarding Wakaba? I did mine not because I dislike the Japanese (although I do not share the hype) but because there were multiple assertions that her lutz technique was perfect and I saw even without slow-mo that it was not. And frankly speaking I am not that proud now about the efforts I put into the issue.

Once again, I am with Orlov on this one because of selective picking the skaters in these edge discussions.

 

[cohen-esque]

My problem with edge discussions is that certain people pick on certain skaters. Like there are users who may have posted no less than hundred times about Medvedeva's wrong edge (it's wrong indeed) and at the same time not a single time about Osmond's wrong edge. And this results in a biased standpoint vs. Evgeniya. Because it was a period of time when her lutz calls mattered only relative to Kaetlyn's as everybody else was far behind in scores and those calls would have changed nothing in standings. Recently, as Zagitova has become a top player and her edge is good the lack of Medvedeva's calls suddenly started to matter. Like with those calls Alina's OG win would have lost any controversy at all. But Medvedeva is with Orser now and ironically I expect much less negativity than before.

A "favorite" topic of mine was Wakaba's lutz edge. I posted more than once pictures where it is quite clear that she gets into the air with flat edge at best. And we finished those discussions with an agreement that at this particular moment her weight is no longer on this foot, hence, the edge does not matter. Now I see the same stuff but concerning Scherbakova. I wonder if people investing time in studying Scherbakova would apply the same rigorous analysis regarding Wakaba? I did mine not because I dislike the Japanese (although I do not share the hype) but because there were multiple assertions that her lutz technique was perfect and I saw even without slow-mo that it was not. And frankly speaking I am not that proud now about the efforts I put into the issue.

Once again, I am with Orlov on this one because of selective picking the skaters in these edge discussions.

We have. About both the flip and Lutz, in fact. It's not us being selective.

https://goldenskate.com/forum/showt...dies-skating&p=2123337&viewfull=1#post2123337

 

[ejnsofi]

Prove it. (cuz we talking about edge need prove that technical controller do not get multiple views)

For me - normal size monitor
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-m...er-yulia-lipnitskaya-of-russia-125155805.html
and of course their resolution is better than those of these gif

As person who sat right behind the judges at isu competition I can say that watching the same event on YT at the same time (it was JGP so stream was provided) I had better look than judges. The monitors are normal sizes but the window of replay is about half of size of it. Also angles of camera wasn't great and quality of recording had much to improve.