2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Warwick360]

You cannot correct or improve on everything at once. Her 2A was her weakest jump before so they might have started with that.

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All I'm saying is that her skating is a work in progress as of now and we can't really expect topnotch results on day one. Reworking techniques take time and a lot of effort.
What Zhenya needs is support, not people who discourage her when she's just starting on a new direction.

Also, she hasn't been getting insane/unfair GOEs like previous seasons, even though she has made/attempted to make striking improvements on her Jumps. Her improved, yet wrong edge, Lz of this year, gets far lower GOE than FLutzes of last year, which had even worse/extreme inside edge than she's had this year. Same goes for her double axel, which has improved vastly. WE need to point blame at judges, and not just Evgenia, for this vast difference that remains from the two season so far.

 

[Seruleane]

Evgenia and BOrser are having a very rocky season. Maybe they expected this, but from their reaction in the K&C, I somehow doubt it. We will see how this coaching arrangement works out. I hope Evgenia can bounce back from this. I think this is going to be a long road for her. Also, I hate it when people say Evgenia is so much more comfortable with her new coaching team. Come on, she was Eteri's favorite for the longest time, and if you watched the documentary prior to the Olympics, you could see Eteri raving about Evgenia being the "best actress in figure skating" and Evgenia joking around with her team. Eteri was her coach since childhood and like her second mom. You can't replace that. Eteri getting upset and maligning Evgenia later on in the press doesn't negate her being a good coach while Evgenia was still with her. People seem to also forget that prior to the Olympics and just afterwards, people were telling Alina she needs to leave Eteri stat since there was so much preferential treatment given to Evgenia. Instead, Alina stayed and seems to still be doing quite well.

 

[Seruleane]

It is incorrect to compare Orser and Eteri on their work with pupils. Orser works with adults. Eteri with children and teenagers, which all pass through "coming of age" - through different psychological problems, rebelliousness and so on. Comparing and criticizing these two coaches is the same as giving to one tailor denim and the other silk. And to criticize the first one for not enough elegant evening dress, and the second one for fragile work pants.

:thumbsup:

 

[koatcue]

Hope Zhenia overcomes her issues and continues to shine in competition, but I am emphasizing the need to do it quick as once you lose your spot in the team, then it's so much harder to return the spot, which is why I'm so impressed with Liza, who has done her comeback twice

 

[starla16]

Evgenia and BOrser are having a very rocky season. Maybe they expected this, but from their reaction in the K&C, I somehow doubt it. We will see how this coaching arrangement works out. I hope Evgenia can bounce back from this. I think this is going to be a long road for her. Also, I hate it when people say Evgenia is so much more comfortable with her new coaching team. Come on, she was Eteri's favorite for the longest time, and if you watched the documentary prior to the Olympics, you could see Eteri raving about Evgenia being the "best actress in figure skating" and Evgenia joking around with her team. Eteri was her coach since childhood and like her second mom. You can't replace that. Eteri getting upset and maligning Evgenia later on in the press doesn't negate her being a good coach while Evgenia was still with her. People seem to also forget that prior to the Olympics and just afterwards, people were telling Alina she needs to leave Eteri stat since there was so much preferential treatment given to Evgenia. Instead, Alina stayed and seems to still be doing quite well.

agreed and Medvedeva;s current condition and results have no relation now with Eteri
people need to stop blaming her old coach.

 

[eaglehelang]

Venus, can be more specific? I didnt notice that Eteri would "flinged feces" on Eugenia or those others skaters. I saw her said that she was surprised by manner in which Zhenia left her group and honestly, it was really childish behaviour from Zhenia side.

Eteri talk bad abt Evgenia on national tv. Telling the world that Evgenia said " Why cant let Alina be juniors another year(so Evgenia can win OG gold)" Evgenia said she did not recall saying such a thing.
Regardless whether Evgenia actually said it, its in poor taste of the coach to repeat it to make the ex student look bad. The older adult looking spiteful & childish here.

When the announcement was made, Evgenia made a statement thanking Eteri for what Eteri has taught her, etc. Gracious & mature.

 

[Ophelia]

Tukt is the prime example of why good technique is so so so important.

 

[silverfoxes]

Technically in the case Zhenya x Eteri, for Russians at least, Zhenya is in the wrong. Not because she left, but because of how she left. Nobody blames her for doing what she thought was best for her.

Who made you the official spokesperson for all Russians? They have different opinions like people from any other country.

 

[Warwick360]

It is incorrect to compare Orser and Eteri on their work with pupils. Orser works with adults. Eteri with children and teenagers, which all pass through "coming of age" - through different psychological problems, rebelliousness and so on. Comparing and criticizing these two coaches is the same as giving to one tailor denim and the other silk. And to criticize the first one for not enough elegant evening dress, and the second one for fragile work pants.

What are you going on about? I wasn't criticising anyone particular. All I was saying was there was no guarantee as the person I replied to implies, that if Evgenia had stayed, none of these problems would have risen. And to your post, Orser does not just work with adults. What kind of rubbish are you making up as your go? Is Jun Hwan an adult? Was Yuna an adult? Just keep on making it up as you go. Sheesh. You can keep your denim/ dressing analogy to yourself.

 

[koatcue]

And whose fault is that? We'll see how long the new batch last and remain in her roster. It's not like Eteri has been coaching for only one Olympics cycle, to use mass exodus of this year as a reason for not having over 20s.

As I said I think it's competition. But I can only take a guess, just as you do your assumptions

 

[starla16]

Tukt is the prime example of why good technique is so so so important.

yes, she was down many times but she came back stronger by just fixing her head and staying fit physically.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Her improved, yet wrong edge, Lz of this year, gets far lower GOE than FLutzes of last year, which had even worse/extreme inside edge than she's had this year. Same goes for her double axel, which has improved vastly. WE need to point blame at judges, and not just Evgenia, for this vast difference that remains from the two season so far.

I'd say that if she's actually being penalized for any wrong edge on the lutz, it's a big improvement on the part of the judges. Her 2A is better, but a lot of women have better 2A's than Evgenia so if she's not being overmarked on that jump it's also good. The judges were going crazy with her GOE for awhile merely because of the 'tano and complex jump entries; now the actual jump element has to be strong to get the best GOE scores.

 

[Deripashka]

And whose fault is that? We'll see how long the new batch last and remain in her roster. It's not like Eteri has been coaching for only one Olympics cycle, to use mass exodus of this year as a reason for not having over 20s.

I think its not some Eteri fault. Khrustalnyj is quite small fs school (on top level) and there was overpressure of young upcoming girls with results pointed that they will be better as girls who left this year. Team in Khrustalnyj have limited possibilities and its difficult to realize to keep same portion of care and teaching to students which arent so promissing. There are probably dozens of girls who left this school each year (like Eva Novakhova etc.) unnoticed. It means its bad school? I dont think so.

 

[Warwick360]

Tukt is the prime example of why good technique is so so so important.

If only good techniques got rewarded as they deserve. Her low GOEs on the Lutz in the past still comes across as jarring to me. Hoping she does not regress again next season like she did after 2014-2015.

 

[Warwick360]

I'd say that if she's actually being penalized for any wrong edge on the lutz, it's a big improvement on the part of the judges. Her 2A is better, but a lot of women have better 2A's than Evgenia so if she's not being overmarked on that jump it's also good. The judges were going crazy with her GOE for awhile merely because of the 'tano and complex jump entries; now the actual jump element has to be strong to get the best GOE scores.

I agree with you completely. I'm not blaming the judges for not scoring her disproportionately now. I am blaming judges for disproportionately scoring her before. And it makes the current GOEs on her element not reflect the actual improvement for many here. Anyhow, I just hope Evgenia improves, all the while I wish Zagitova had not replaced Evgenia as the overscored one. And to think I believed early in the season, ISU had finally managed to bring some reasonableness into their scoring.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Anyhow, I just hope Evgenia improves, all the while I wish Zagitova had not replaced Evgenia as the overscored one.

I think both Alina and Satoko are probably overscored on the jumps, but they execute the elements with such consistency that it probably helps lift their GOE. Satoko has very beautiful landing positions and Alina usually has great flow and complexity out of the jumps, so they do both have qualities that merit good marks.

 

[Jontor]

All right!!! Samodurova qualified for the GPF

Yay for Sofia. You can safely say though, that Konstantinova lost it in that single element - the 3Lz combination in the short. Had she done that she would have qualified.

 

[Warwick360]

I think both Alina and Satoko are probably overscored on the jumps, but they execute the elements with such consistency that it probably helps lift their GOE. Satoko has very beautiful landing positions and Alina usually has great flow and complexity out of the jumps, so they do both have qualities that merit good marks.

I would not say a word about Satoko. People harp so much negative about her jumps while completely ignoring what heaven her rest of the programs are. If the judges are to take away her GOES, they better be giving her a whole 80 in PCS. :dev2:

As for Zagitova, though I rooted for her in the Olympics cycle, I still can't find any reason why judges would give the score they do to those atrociously edited music cuts and those awfully choreographed routine. Half the time, I feel Zagitova is doing the same thing she's doing last year, without much consideration for the difference in music. Don't get me wrong, she still sells it well. But the whole thing is too jarring and incongruent (without even taking into factor the decline in her jumps) for her to be getting such scores, consistency or not.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Evgenia and BOrser are having a very rocky season. Maybe they expected this, but from their reaction in the K&C, I somehow doubt it. We will see how this coaching arrangement works out. I hope Evgenia can bounce back from this. I think this is going to be a long road for her. Also, I hate it when people say Evgenia is so much more comfortable with her new coaching team. Come on, she was Eteri's favorite for the longest time, and if you watched the documentary prior to the Olympics, you could see Eteri raving about Evgenia being the "best actress in figure skating" and Evgenia joking around with her team. Eteri was her coach since childhood and like her second mom. You can't replace that. Eteri getting upset and maligning Evgenia later on in the press doesn't negate her being a good coach while Evgenia was still with her. People seem to also forget that prior to the Olympics and just afterwards, people were telling Alina she needs to leave Eteri stat since there was so much preferential treatment given to Evgenia. Instead, Alina stayed and seems to still be doing quite well.

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

 

[moriel]

agreed and Medvedeva;s current condition and results have no relation now with Eteri
people need to stop blaming her old coach.

My friend, people will blame Eteri for everything that happens to Zhenya. She keeps underperforming? Eteri didn't teach her basic technique. She is injured? Eteri forced her to overtrain, and even 10 years later it will be Eteri's fault.

As for saying Zhenya is so much more comfortable with her new coaching team, actually her and Orser's interviews seem to somewhat imply this, describing how happy she is in Canada.