2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

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I agree that as a whole, the junior trio looks superior. But well, this year they‘re still in juniors. Next year will be interesting. But for now and prospects this year, the Japanese podium looks stronger than the Russian simply because there‘s not even one senior on the Russian podium and the strongest one is Stanislava Konstantinova who is... well, lovely but not exactly the best skater there is out there. So I do understand that at the moment this might lead to some thinking that the Japanese are momentarily stronger. What they forget, though, is that despite Alina‘s failure here this isn‘t the norm for her and she was in strong form at GPF and during the rest of the season. Liza, who‘s GPF medalist and beat 2/3 of that Japanese podium before was also missed at Nationals. So, I do think they are about equal this year and the battle at worlds will be fierce. Next year will be a wholly different situation of course.

I would agree with the phrase that the Japanese podium is somewhat stronger than the current Russian European team. But even discounting the juniors "significantly superior" does not work. Alina had a bad FP but she scored more than 80 in the short. Internationally she would have 77-78 for that ahead of any of the Japanese. Yes, she bombed the free but does it mean that it is the rule rather than exception now? She had troubles early last seaons as well. Sofia won over Satoko in Canada. And what if Liza comes back in her recent shape? What if Zhenya is truly on the upward trajectory now?

If you add home ice advantage to "significantly superior" you can deduce that Russian skaters have no chances in the next WC. Well, I don't think so.

 

[Fluture]

As i understand it, he wants some sort of test skates.
I dont think this would happen, getting everybody for test skates, specially Zhenya (who will have to travel from Canada), right before Worlds, may not be a good idea, since it is expensive and will disrupt the training process.


Realistically, based on what Mishin said (rusfed told him to prepare Tuktamysheva for Worlds, link somewhere up the thread), rusfed wants to see Tuktamysheva at universiade, and then decide between her and Samodurova for Worlds based on Liza's readiness.
TAT said that rusfed did not ask Orser to prepare Zhenya for Worlds (I just posted a huge bunch of links, and TAT likely knows since she behaved as a coach to Zhenya at rusnats), which means she is not seriously considered for one of the spots, and is set to be the 2nd sub.

If they wanted Zhenya at Worlds they‘d have given her the Universiade spot alongside Liza to prove that she‘s ready. I‘m relieved, honestly, Zhenya doesn‘t seem to be ready to be at Worlds and to struggle there to even make the top 10 or all the pressure to keep the 3 spots would do her no good. She needs a lower level competition to end the season with a medal or even a win and build on the confidence RusNats gave her. I wish she could have gone to Universiade regardless but oh well, that can‘t be changed anyway.

 

[andromache]

I think even if we see a revolving door, this should be evaluated carefully.
For example, it is fair for 3A to replace Zhenya and Alina, as they are stronger all around. Not because of puberty, but because, for example, Sasha, even in seniors, will be a better jumper than both Zhenya and Alina together, even if she loses the quads. Because right now, 3A are better than Zhenya and Alina were at their age.
So they would win and replace not because they have teenage bodies, but because they are better, simply put.

If we come to a point when we have a situation where we have lets say Zhenya and Alina being replaced by same Zhenya and Alina, but 2-3 years younger, then sure, raising age could be a thing.
If new waves of skaters are simply better and stronger, there is no excuse to push them back simply because new talents keep coming.

I agree that Kosto/Shcher/Trusova (I'm sorry, I don't call them 3A - too confusing since 3A is a jump! ) are better than Zhenya and Alina were at that age. But I don't think we can conclude that that means that Kosto/Shcher/Trusova will be better at 16-19 than Alina/Evgenia are now - it's making too many assumptions about their physical health. Kosto/Shcer/Trusova are probably working and being pushed harder than Alina/Evgenia were at earlier ages - this could have a long-term negative impact. We don't know.

ETA: I also think we all realize that each "generation" of Eteri girls has been better than the last, at least in terms of jumps. But this "each generation gets better" isn't going to last forever. I'm not sure if any generation of Eteri girls will ever be better than Kosto/Shcher/Trusova. It's hard to imagine.

 

[Tolstoj]

The quads notwithstanding, a terrific athletic feat for sure, the Japanese podium was significantly superior to the Russian one imo.

?

I mean sure, the three japanese girls are already in seniors, while the russians will make their statement next season.

At the same time, i can't stand with Satoko's technique, and even this time they could have totally given the bronze to Mihara. I think that's japanese way of thanking Satoko for keeping ladies figure skating relevant in a time when there was no other athlete to push.

 

[eaglehelang]

Another generalization just to critisize Trusova/Scherbakova. Have you seen how Daniel Samohin falls, this one for example?
https://youtu.be/xBp3Y8d8GEk?t=68

Daniel Samohin is a junior?? He is 20 now.
I purposely said boys and compared with a top junior male skater.
When both Trusova/Scherbakova go to seniors, then we'll compare with seniors. One can fall hard, fall not so hard or save the fall. Why some often fall hard on quads & others dont, did they train how to land on their feet, etc.

 

[moriel]

I agree that Kosto/Shcher/Trusova (I'm sorry, I don't call them 3A - too confusing since 3A is a jump! ) are better than Zhenya and Alina were at that age. But I don't think we can conclude that that means that Kosto/Shcher/Trusova will be better at 16-19 than Alina/Evgenia are now - it's making too many assumptions about their physical health. Kosto/Shcer/Trusova are probably working and being pushed harder than Alina/Evgenia were at earlier ages - this could have a long-term negative impact. We don't know.

ETA: I also think we all realize that each "generation" of Eteri girls has been better than the last, at least in terms of jumps. But this "each generation gets better" isn't going to last forever. I'm not sure if any generation of Eteri girls will ever be better than Kosto/Shcher/Trusova. It's hard to imagine.

I just think that if the next generation is better (and not just Eteri girls, see japanese juniors for example, Kihira), there is no reason to reduce age limit.
Because the next generation is better.

 

[[email protected]]

3A is still a triple.

Nope, even technically it is 3.5 revolutions rather than 3. If you add prerotation on 4T you will have the same number of revolutions in the air. There were always injuries in figure skating well before men started to jump quads. Wrong technique resulting in underrotations has stronger effect on ankles than correctly performed quads because of the extra twist, you can do 50 triples a day and it will have a worse effect than 10 quads, etc., etc.

I don't believe that people who support Rika who was injured last season and who keeps falling on 3A and at the same time criticize Trusova and Eteri have nothing in their minds but health concerns.

 

[eaglehelang]

It's probably because some people have the tendency to see the glass half full while talking about the Japanese skaters (for the lack of US, Canadian, Caro, etc. right now) and half empty while talking about the Russian skaters. Just imo.

No it is not. I gave the a list of the top male skaters who do quads & their injuries. This discussion on long term effects of quad jumps been going on for few years, since 2014.

 

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Daniel Samohin is a junior?? He is 20 now.
I purposely said boys and compared with a top junior male skater.
When both Trusova/Scherbakova go to seniors, then we'll compare with seniors. One can fall hard, fall not so hard or save the fall. Why some often fall hard on quads & others dont, did they train how to land on their feet, etc.

You want me to find Daniel's falls as a junior? Sorry, but I find the idea that boys have better falls unfounded unless someone did the analysis.

 

[bubblecherry]

Overall, while EUros and Worlds are prestigious and Zhenya's fans are crying, i think rusfed is right in not sending her to any of those. She is obviously not ready this season, and imho she should take her time to work and prepare for the next seasn, rather than keep struggling in competitions. Having extra time to somehow stabilize her jumps, and to work on programs (so she doesn't need to change the content after every competition) will be a big deal for her.
Next season is very important, since many russian girls will be able to turn senior, and the competition will be much harder. And i dont mean just 3A. Tarusina, Gubanova, Guliakova, Tarakanova and so on can also turn seniors, and they are not much behind Zhenya as she was this season. If she keeps struggling, she will not be the 4th senior, but the 10th senior, so she got to be ready.

Oh, please. No one is crying. I asked a question. Almost everyone in her fanfest is seeing this as a glass half full situation and happy she has the rest of the season off to prepare for next season. No need to project your opinion onto others and be condescending.

 

[fabienne1996]

I don't think that's what it's in reference to.

Isn't the cup of Russia also a competition that is important for placement for world? They could and I mean only could potentially send zhenya to it to see how she is doing

 

[moriel]

Oh, please. No one is crying. I asked a question. Almost everyone in her fanfest is seeing this as a glass half full situation and happy she has the rest of the season off to prepare for next season. No need to project your opinion onto others and be condescending.

I didnt mean you at all, sorry. But there are tons of folks, including TAT and Besti that are upset and appearently expected Medvedeva to get the sport regardless.

 

[Fluture]

I just don‘t get the Universiade decision.

Euros: Stasya, Alina and Sofia - Stasya can prove that she is ready there

Universiade: Zhenya and Liza - Liza can prove there that she is ready and if she is, she‘ll replace the one who did worse at Euros with the exception of Alina (so either Sofia or Stasya)

Worlds: Alina, the one of the two who wasn‘t replaced by Liza and Liza of course

This way there would be no problem at all. And don‘t tell me “Stasya is the first senior at RusNats, she has to go“ It wasn‘t the same in the past either. 2017 Radionova and Tuktamysheva went, neither of whom was on the main World or Euros team this season.

And no Zhenya fans are crying, in fact most of us are worried about her going to Worlds. We just don‘t get the Universiade decision as it was handled differently in the past. And if TAT had wanted to make a case for Zhenya... well, dear, then why don‘t you stay during the council‘s decision? That‘s just ridiculous to complain afterwards. Do something WHILE the decision is being made.

 

[melgirl25]

Thank you for translating moriel. I thought Zhenya was first alternate for Universidade?

 

[rachno2]

I don’t get it either. Did they learn nothing from Konstantinova doing JWC and WC back to back last season? And now she has Europeans on top of it. The girl is being unintentionally set up to fail, quite frankly, and I do not look forward to the inevitable gloating. If TAT really wanted Medvedeva to get some assignments, she should have stayed on the council and pushed for Universidade. Maybe Stasya will be able to skip it, but turning down an assignment probably wouldn’t go over well?

In any case, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lot of reshuffling after Europeans. Stasya could bomb or podium, Alina could continue to struggle or defend her title, Sofia could easily do the best of the bunch on sheer consistency. Who knows how everybody will do there.

 

[bubblecherry]

I didnt mean you at all, sorry. But there are tons of folks, including TAT and Besti that are upset and appearently expected Medvedeva to get the sport regardless.

I see. A misunderstanding. I'm sorry as well. In that case, I do agree with the rest of your post for the most part, though I see it more positively. Essentially, I think if it's handled properly, having so much time to prepare for next season is a blessing in disguise. If somehow by someone withdrawing or someone bombing before Worlds she gets the opportunity to go, then sure she should take it. But I don't think they should fight for a spot (through the media like TAT, or going to an unnecessary competition) I think it'd be unproductive.

She could really use this off season to get a head start for next season, as well as train without competitive pressure for a few months. She could really hammer in skating skills training, or retooling a jump and risking it being inconsistent for a short bit while doing so. Or even learning a new jump if that's on the radar. But of course, they will have to make the choice to go about it this way rather than training like "normal," which seems to just bring incremental (both positive and negative) change.

 

[zounger]

Maybe Stanislava is not the best Russian skater, but she won the nationals among seniors. She is the only one who has the right to be in all teams. Otherwise, you just erasing whatever significance the nationals have. I would consider it unfair to remove her from the teams.

 

[Watch]

Thank you for translating moriel. I thought Zhenya was first alternate for Universidade?

She is. TAT either got misquoted or remembered it wrong, it seems.

 

[Fluture]

Maybe Stanislava is not the best Russian skater, but she won the nationals among seniors. She is the only one who has the right to be in all teams. Otherwise, you just erasing whatever significance the nationals have. I would consider it unfair to remove her from the teams.

I wouldn‘t remove her from Euros or Worlds unless she bombs Euros completely. But in the past the Universiade was always for the B team and not the main team who went to Worlds and Euros. This year, with Liza, it‘s different. But Stasya this year is on the A team and should thus be sent to the other competitions. Also, we all have seen what happened to her when she went to Junior Worlds AND Worlds last year.

In 2017 Radionova and Tuktamysheva. 2015 Leonova and Artemieva. None of them made the team for Worlds this season. They were all on the B team.

 

[eaglehelang]

Nope, even technically it is 3.5 revolutions rather than 3. If you add prerotation on 4T you will have the same number of revolutions in the air. There were always injuries in figure skating well before men started to jump quads. Wrong technique resulting in underrotations has stronger effect on ankles than correctly performed quads because of the extra twist, you can do 50 triples a day and it will have a worse effect than 10 quads, etc., etc.

I don't believe that people who support Rika who was injured last season and who keeps falling on 3A and at the same time criticize Trusova and Eteri have nothing in their minds but health concerns.

Well, the same reason we dont discuss the long term effects of doing 3A on the men. All the senior men do it.
3A is nothing new, seriously. Last season I didnt even notice Rika Kihira or know that she did a 3A. Mirai Nagasu did 3A during 2018 OG, the US media raved abt it, to the rest of us, no big deal.
Liza did 3A this season, I didnt bat an eye.
If in Jan 2019, another female skater does 3A, no big deal too. Its not news. The men do 3A all the time. Female skaters have done 3A since ages ago.

Doing quads, Multiple quads, now thats new.
It was discussed widely last few years for the men. The rules were even changed due to this frequent falling on quads or planned quad falls.
So, when female quadsters move up to seniors, it'll start the discussion again. They will be the 1st senior ladies to successfully land quads. No conspiracy theories or anything of the sort.