2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
There was a Russian competition last year where one of the participants had WD so they needed a 6th participant. It was at Sambo 70 so they had Alena sub in so quickly that she just wore her training outfit, and she did just her SP with a 3Lz-3Lo.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2017
I can't agree about jumps. In their team "jump chief" is Dudakov, former student of Viktor Kudriavtsev. It's he and none else who are working on quads with Sasha and Anna. So I'm sure there is no "Eteri's jump technique", there is Kudriavtsev's technique in Dudakov's interpretation.
https://youtu.be/ydnGujFmRSM
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Those poor competitors. Reminds me of this
https://www.instagram.com/p/Brv_OCynLXl/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=yedgg0kf8x50
It could be one of the reasons, but it’s hard to say. It was also unclear to me why she regressed so much in 2015/2016. Anyway, I’m happy she managed to come back. However, having gotten used to Eteri’s programs, Liza’s programs do seem a little bit empty, although she is very good at selling them.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
those poor competitors. Reminds me of this
https://www.instagram.com/p/brv_ocynlxl/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=yedgg0kf8x50
lol
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2017
nah, you never know. this year she's supposed to be "out of GP circle" because she's placed below top 24 SB but she get invited as replacement. she's currently outside of top 24, no 25 and can easily get invited as replacemen if one of the other girls WD.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Go back and watch her programs from last season and then compare them to this season. She’s been working very hard on her presentation and especially her skating skills. She’s developing really nicely IMO. I actually think her jumps are timed up pretty well to the music too. Especially the SP. Danil seems to love that stuff.
Just compare her poise and power on the in between steps and I think you’ll get a sense for how much work she has put in. I actually rewatched them yesterday just for fun
Don‘t be angry if I disagree on Sasha‘s performance ability. It‘s nothing against her.
For me, to find out whether a skater is musical or not, I look at their body. I look how the musical accents are portrayed by movement of the body and the arms. And that‘s what I find very lacking in Sasha, that‘s why I just can‘t see any musicality in her. Her arms are very stiff, she moves her body only when she‘s doing the choreography she‘s been given.
And before anyone says something along those lines: I do not confuse musicality with being a princess-y, graceful and fragile type of skater. Because it‘s not the same. One can be powerful and athletic and at the same time still listen to the music. That‘s why I‘ll not take Alena or Anna as an example now but someone else: Anastasia Tarakanova.
She‘s been often criticized for her blank face during performances and yes, that‘s an area she can improve on, showing emotions in her facial expression. But if we look at her body and at her arms, they move to the program. She isn‘t the most musical skater either but for me the difference between them is clear: Nastya feels the music. Sasha likes it and she likes to skate and she‘s happy and energetic. But the music in the background is just music and has no special connection to her performance. You could give her any music and she would do the elements and choreography as you ask her to but it would make no difference.
She does the elements as she‘s asked to do and she does them really, really well. And she jumps like a little fire-cracker but to me, musicality is something else. It‘s an ability you either have or you don‘t have. For me, Sasha lacks that quality. But is that so bad? No. Because she is still capable of making entertaining programs. Her SP this year is fun to watch. And it shows off another very important strength she has. She is very precise and she can count. So if you tell her, do this jump exactly to the beat of the music, she‘ll do it every single time and with precision. If you tell her, do 8 revolutions on a spin, she’ll do them, every single time. She is precise in her execution. If you use that and time her jumps and choreographic elements to the music, give her something she can hold on to, she can mask that weakness to emote and interpret very well.
Does her being able to count equal musicality? I‘m not a skater but I’ve been playing the piano for some time now and I sometimes teach little kids and imo, there is a big difference between children who do what they‘re being told to do and those who really feel what they‘re doing. It‘s hard to explain but there are those whom I have to tell: “Okay, here you have to wait five seconds (seconds is the wrong word but I don‘t know the translation) before you play this note“ and then they do it every single time but at the same time wouldn’t have noticed any difference if I didn’t tell them. And then there are those who play, look at me and say: “Something sounds off but I don‘t know what. Should I make a bigger pause, maybe?“
And yeah, it seems to be similar for skaters. Sasha seems to be the first child, Anna and Alena the second. Nastya is somehow a mix between them but to me it seems like she put a bit more work in trying to listen to the music. But that‘s just in my opinion.
But either way, Sasha IS precise and does everything she’s been told to do well and that‘s why her SP this season works. Her FS... not so much. It depends heavily on Sasha carrying the emotion through, the anger in the beginning, later even a bit of vulnerability until she “breaks free“ in the end and shows her strength again. And that... just doesn‘t work. Because Sasha throughout the program is and stays just Sasha. She is a cute girl trying to punch the judges in the face. And she is also a cute girl doing these insane technical elements, jumping quads. That’s what makes her programs intense. The anxiety of ”Will she or won’t she land them?“ That‘s what makes you go: “Woah“. But if you take the quads away, it leaves a program that heavily relies on a girl to showcase its different emotions and it just doesn‘t work because in the end Sasha is Sasha and she isn‘t good at acting. Acting and interpreting are just not her strengths. That‘s it. That‘s why the SP is - in my opinion - a much better vehicle for her.
But this is only about a few parts of her PCS score. Her skating skills are by no means bad, she‘s fast (sometimes a bit too fast that it seems rushed) but she has pretty good edges. Her transitions are of course crazy and deserve high marks. And Sasha is once again an example on why skating skills and transitions should be part of the technical score, not the presentation score. There can be a skater who‘s musical but doesn‘t have good skating skills or transitions but there‘s also the other way round. And what do you do then? I have never seen a skater get 6 in presentation and interpretation while skating skills are a high 8 and transitions 9s and more. Is that even possible? For me, transitions and skating skills clearly belong to the technical part. Then it wouldn‘t be so unfair to say “Sasha deserves low PCS“ because it would be only the presentation part and the technical part including skating skills and transitions would be rightfully high.
But of course I do agree that she‘s worked on some of the aspects of her skating. Her spins have improved, she has good centering and better speed. She needs to work on her illusion, it sometimes looks a bit messy. It‘s obvious, she‘s trying. I really like Sasha as a person so that‘s nothing against her. And Anna and Alena aren‘t perfect either, obviously. They all have different strengths and weaknesses and that‘s what I like most about them.
"Her arms are very stiff, she moves her body only when she‘s doing the choreography she‘s been given. "
Just a side note, this has nothing to do with musicality.
One can be musical and have stiff arms. One can do the exact choreography that was given and still be musical. One can do the opposite and still don't be musical.
"there is a big difference between children who do what they‘re being told to do and those who really feel what they‘re doing" still nothing to do with musicality, sorry.
In FS, its quite common to actually not be very easy to identify musicality and non musicality, because with enough practice, you can teach literally anybody to do movements with the music.
Good way to see how musical / non musical skaters are are when they catch up the music after a fall, or - and specially - during gala finales, when the had no time to learn the choreo (you can see the difference quite well then).
Just a side note, this has nothing to do with musicality.
One can be musical and have stiff arms. One can do the exact choreography that was given and still be musical. One can do the opposite and still don't be musical.
"there is a big difference between children who do what they‘re being told to do and those who really feel what they‘re doing" still nothing to do with musicality, sorry.
In FS, its quite common to actually not be very easy to identify musicality and non musicality, because with enough practice, you can teach literally anybody to do movements with the music.
Good way to see how musical / non musical skaters are are when they catch up the music after a fall, or - and specially - during gala finales, when the had no time to learn the choreo (you can see the difference quite well then).
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Quite so.
The only category where this doesn't hold true is Transitions. TR is ALWAYS lower than SS.
I just checked this hypothesis using the Grand Prix Final. Out of 24 paired scores (short program and long, men and women) SS was higher than TR in every single case.
The only one that was close was Alina Zagitova (she has a LOT of transitions
)
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
First of all, it’s not only the arms, it‘s the whole body.
And I feel like you only quote small parts and take them out of context, sorry. In the part about the children I explained clearly that they are some who LISTEN to the music, they HEAR when something is off, when something doesn‘t sound right. And then there are those who do what they‘re being told to do and can count and do that well but wouldn‘t have noticed any difference. And for me, if you put those children next to each other when they both have learned the exact song and are at a same level of playing, there will be a difference between the one who has a natural ability for rhythm, a feel for the music and the one who just learned where to make a pause, how long to hold which notes. Both are at a good level of playing the piano. But only one of them is musical. And that‘s the same with Sasha. She is a good skater. She does her choreography well. But she doesn‘t feel the music. And if you don‘t feel the music, how should you be able to interpret it and make it look genuine?
I‘m not a skater, I can only use the experience I have. And for me, when I watch the programs, it‘s obvious which skater has an innate musicality and who “only“ does the choreography and has learned it very well. Like with the example above: Both have learned the choreography, both do it exactly like they‘ve been told. But still only one is musical. Maybe it‘s subjective too. I actually think it is very much. But it‘s not about which skater I like, or at least not always. There have been skaters that were very musical but I still didn‘t like their programs. It‘s not me preferring a skater and screaming “Not musical!!“ to their rival.
And for me another indicator whether or not a skater is musical is the part when they‘re dancing and like you said about gala practices, don’t know the choreo very well. And I didn‘t include that because my post was already quite long but if you take some of the many dance videos Sambo provides, for me it‘s obvious that Sasha is just not very musical. That she does the choreography like she‘s learned it but she doesn‘t hear the music and if she doesn‘t know the choreography, she has a hard time catching up. Could you state what musicality for you is? Because I‘m a bit confused.
Here is the first randomn video I found of Sasha dancing. Her and Anna look very young so it‘s probably a bit old and I‘m sure she improved since then but for me, the differences between them are obvious.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JqnUPRC5ewo
And I mean nothing of what I said here as an insult to Sasha. I just think that everybody has different strengths and that‘s okay to express. I like Sasha a lot and I like lots of the programs she has done. I enjoy watching her SP this year, her SP last year.
And it‘s entirely possible that I‘m wrong on that. It‘s just what I see and think and I tried my best to analyze and explain it.
Edit: If anyone has a newer dancing video of Sasha it might help! This one‘s from March 2017 and quite a bit of time has passed so it might not be the most accurate one.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
no. This video just a master classe and has nothing to do with everyday work and routine.
There are a bunch of interviews about it. Try to read and watch them.)
The thing is. They ALL together work on jumps and on everything else.. They're all on a daily basis correct mistakes, teach jumps, give instructions about what need to be done and so one.
It's different from some USA teams... where one coach works just with spins, another with jumps, the third with stsq and if you want to work on your choreography .. there are one more person to help with it.
Eteri' team is different. They all do everything. Eteri, Daniil, Dudakov and now Rosanov. Only one exaption Dudakov doesn't create programs. not sure about Rosanov.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
Personally, I think Sasha made some improvements. However, I still can't connect with her skating. Her skating skills are good, she is fast across the ice, she has good jumps, huge technical content. This season, I see some good changes/evolutions, but I still can't connect with her skating. Anna and Alyona have something really special, they are extremely musical, I feel they live their programs. I don't have that impression with Alexandra. She seems to be (as mentioned by some posters earlier) reciting her "program", but she doesn't "live" it. That's a pity because from my point of view, it makes her look like a "jumping bean", but I think she is much more than her jumps. Morever, her skating still seem quite "juniorish" to me. In a sense, it was to be expected since she is junior, but when you watch her skate next to Kostrnaya or even Anna (who looks less mature than Alyona), you clearly see a difference. That's the main things preventing me to ""stan"" her. She does, however, have quite good programs. I liked both her programs last year, and I like her SP this season. Furthermore, I feel she is trying to improve in the "artistic" departement so I feel she can bring new and interesting things in the future.
Weird...she never does this combo competitively
EDIT - is this a 3 lutz - 3 loop... it almost looks like a 3 lutz - 2 loop... her rotation is very quick
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
yes. it is 3Lz3Lo
Maybe her +3lo combo is not stable enough while her +3T combo will always give her Huge GOE. It's almost always +4-5
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2018
Exactly. People think that Alena's skating skills are miles above Sasha, but they don't realize that this is because she is given breathtaking music and programs that allow her to convey a different type of story than Sasha. If Alena was performing Sasha's programs than surely people would not praise her skating skills nearly as much as they do now.
I think a - 3Lo combo for Alena was not worth the risk because she doesn't repeat the 3Lz (maybe she needs to focus to show the right edge too much?)
If she mastered the 3A I feel like they might have planned to make her repeat 3A & 3F to be competitive with her teammates BV - next season mayyybe
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I agree. Sasha and Anna are taking a huge risk with the 3Lz-Lo, especially since it‘s a backloaded combo and they have no chance to make up for it if they miss it. In juniors they generally have to get the combo on the first try due to the required solo jump but still... why use a combo if it isn’t stable enough?
And we‘ve seen that for Anna it failed her more often than not (probably due to nerves since she can do 3Lz-3Lo in her sleep) and the SP was what cost her the chance at a medal at the JGPF. Loop combos in general seem to be very tricky as you have to have exactly the right timing and if you don‘t, the momentum for the 3Lo is gone. If you do a 3T, you have a bit more room. And now with the + - 5 GOE, you can get enough points on a great 3T to keep up with someone who does a 3Lo combo.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
News about another trio
Samodelkina, Berestovskaya, and Akatieva were all at the CSKA Cup that just ended. In a tight race for gold, Samodelkina ended up beating Akatieva by less than half a point :shocked: and Berestovskaya got third
https://www.instagram.com/p/Br0kpmyBzyj/
Samodelkina, Berestovskaya, and Akatieva were all at the CSKA Cup that just ended. In a tight race for gold, Samodelkina ended up beating Akatieva by less than half a point :shocked: and Berestovskaya got third
https://www.instagram.com/p/Br0kpmyBzyj/
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