2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[moriel]

This is not a criticism of you, but I find it puzzling that anyone would question the motivation or sincerity of new fans of Zhenya or any other skater. People change their minds about things all the time. They learn new things. They are exposed to new things. Look at the fan fest threads, which have posts like, “hi, this is my first post here, I just saw skater x on YouTube [or at the Olympics or somewhere else] and I think s/he is wonderful and I’m so happy to have found this forum,” etc etc.

I also find it disturbing when any poster, in any thread, makes a comment like, “you don’t like skater x or coach y because she’s American” or “people from North America have only jumped on the Evgenia bandwagon because she’s training with Brian Orser.” IMO, it’s wrong to stereotype people; it’s good to remember that we’re all different and we don’t all think alike, no matter where we’re raised.

We are not questioning.
We are just genuinely surprised and puzzled on how many people disliked Zhenya before, while she was winning everything, and now that we dare to say the truth, "she is struggling", we suddenly because the h*ters

 

[atsumiri]

(Sasha Trusova and Egor Rukhin) were asked/encouraged to move to Eteri in 2016.

em. no. they were not.
Sasha was the one who wanted to train with Eteri at the first place. Even since Ryasan. But at the moment when she just moved from Ryasan Eteri didn't take new students.
So they decided to join Sambo70 and the same rink just because it could be easy to get to Eteri when she will take new students.

sorry, but you wrote SO much fantasies and your own interpretations on other people choices. So it's really funny)

 

[Fluture]

We are not questioning.
We are just genuinely surprised and puzzled on how many people disliked Zhenya before, while she was winning everything, and now that we dare to say the truth, "she is struggling", we suddenly because the h*ters

Erm, sorry but no. Absolutely no. It is obvious that Zhenya is struggling, even her fans see that. But there is a difference between simply stating that she is struggling and constantly questioning her, her ability to make decisions, her choice in itself and everything she and her team do and say. There is a small but quite obvious line between “reasonable criticism“ and ”hate“ and most can see it very clearly. Just saying.

 

[moriel]

With GP you also have to take into account that skaters are invited.

I mean USA will choose to invite Masha over Trusova if both are eligible, and tbh I’m not sure how many favours Russia can grant as most other countries don’t have 4+ people they want on GP in other disciplines.

I will be very interested to see what happens. I especially wonder if Rusfed can really block someone like Sima from doing GP completely even though she’s top 24.

I am pretty sure rusfed can. Considerng that FS is heavily funded by state in Russia, so if they cannot just block the invitation, they can, quite easily, politely request the skater to WD. If the skater is not part of the team, most of the coaches are still funded by state. And rusfed is the one to send skaters to championships, so they also have threats like "you will never get any worlds, euros or senior Bs, and you will never be in the team", "your students will never be sent anywhere from now on"
And I don't doubt they will do it if their top 6 skaters will be in risc of not getting 2 GPs.
Pretty sure rusfed can block it if they want. They make too many decisions.

Because there is stuff like that: https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...98-gp-general-announcement-2018-19-final/file
"Non-Seeded Skaters/Couples will not be invited to another event in replacement if they choose not to
skate in an assigned event."
"Non-Seeded Skaters/Couples will not be invited to another event in replacement if, by medical reason,
they withdraw from an assigned event."

So imo, if, lets say, Sima is invited to a GP while Alina / Liza / Zhenya / 3A don't have 2 spots, i totally see rusfed doing a jedi gesture on Sima requesting her to withdraw.

 

[Fluture]

But there should be enough GP spots for Alina, Liza, Zhenya, 3A and Sima as they are all on season‘s best list. In which situation would it end up with Alina, Liza, Zhenya and 3A not having two spots? I know there are too many ladies for GP spots in Russia but those six should be pretty set.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

But there should be enough GP spots for Alina, Liza, Zhenya, 3A and Sima as they are all on season‘s best list. In which situation would it end up with Alina, Liza, Zhenya and 3A not having two spots? I know there are too many ladies for GP spots in Russia but those six should be pretty set.

Those 6 - Alina, Liza, Zhenya, 3A - and Sofia Samodurova should be set if only 9 names are submitted. If they submit all the names on the SB list + Maria Sotskova (from WS), they end up with 12 ladies (11 from SB). All 12 get a guaranteed spot, so only 6 get 2 spots. But there's no way to determine which 6 get a second spot, and host countries could invite a skater like Konstantinova (to receive a second spot) if they don't want their own ladies to face Zagitova or Trusova, for example.

 

[Lechat]

Maturity and thoughtfulness are absolutely not the opposites of introverted and low self esteem.
Alina can be, and is, both things at the same time.
I phrased is wrong maybe. To me Alina is a strong competitor but she doesn't seem to have the selfconfidence Evgenia has in the sense of saying "I'm the best."
Not even after winning the freaking Olympics did Alina jump to claim some much deserved glory for herself, she just quietly sat through condolences to Evgenia.
But maybe that has to do with being told your entire life you're not good enough. Idk just an impression she gives off and I know many viewers get the same feeling.

Well if you were Alina coming after Zhenia and snatching the gold medal under her noise by only 1,5 point, you would feel uncomfortable. They trained in the same rink and shared a lot of things together. Alina is her junior + when some people say she robbed Zhenia or not deserved the gold, she must feel guilty and for her it’s like her victory wasn’t total. The poor girl had to face a lot of hate, some people want to destroy her, so sure she was hurt and it doesn’t help her to have a great esteem of herself. She was just a child but she managed to pull herself together and I’m glad to see her stonger than before.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I am pretty sure rusfed can. Considerng that FS is heavily funded by state in Russia, so if they cannot just block the invitation, they can, quite easily, politely request the skater to WD. If the skater is not part of the team, most of the coaches are still funded by state. And rusfed is the one to send skaters to championships, so they also have threats like "you will never get any worlds, euros or senior Bs, and you will never be in the team", "your students will never be sent anywhere from now on"
And I don't doubt they will do it if their top 6 skaters will be in risc of not getting 2 GPs.
Pretty sure rusfed can block it if they want. They make too many decisions.

Because there is stuff like that: https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...98-gp-general-announcement-2018-19-final/file
"Non-Seeded Skaters/Couples will not be invited to another event in replacement if they choose not to
skate in an assigned event."
"Non-Seeded Skaters/Couples will not be invited to another event in replacement if, by medical reason,
they withdraw from an assigned event."

So imo, if, lets say, Sima is invited to a GP while Alina / Liza / Zhenya / 3A don't have 2 spots, i totally see rusfed doing a jedi gesture on Sima requesting her to withdraw.

But even then rusfed would not have the assurance that one of them would get a second spot because the fillers are invited

 

[atsumiri]

come on. RusFed is the one who will give "the list" of skaters which "wish to skate at GP events". All assignments will be discussed in ISU meeting that will take place in May/June. RusFed can present whatever list they want.

 

[moriel]

But even then rusfed would not have the assurance that one of them would get a second spot because the fillers are invited

Rusfed could enshure that only 8-9 russian ladies participate in GP, which would mean that the top 6 get 2 spots (because of the national spots limits)
Either by not submitting some names, or forcing some skaters to retire / WD.

 

[fabienne1996]

em. no. they were not.
Sasha was the one who wanted to train with Eteri at the first place. Even since Ryasan. But at the moment when she just moved from Ryasan Eteri didn't take new students.
So they decided to join Sambo70 and the same rink just because it could be easy to get to Eteri when she will take new students.

sorry, but you wrote SO much fantasies and your own interpretations on other people choices. So it's really funny)

To that Sasha herself said she wanted to train in the same group as zhenya , that was one reason apparently that she wanted to go to eteri

 

[composer]

We are just genuinely surprised and puzzled on how many people disliked Zhenya before, while she was winning everything, and now that we dare to say the truth, "she is struggling", we suddenly because the h*ters

For me personally as a somewhat converted fan (I was uninterested before, did not dislike Evgenia but did not like her either) I will say that it’s because I tend to root for the underdog. I rooted for Mirai for years even when her career seemed to be all but over. There was so much expectation that Evgenia was going to win the Olympics, and that she deserved it based on body of work over the quad (in my mind anyway) that when she went out, skated like she did while injured, and still - it wasn’t enough. Before she was the popular girl who had everything served to her on a silver platter. Now suddenly she is struggling. I hesitate to say everybody, but surely most people have had the experience of failing to get what you want in spite of trying your very best. And anyway it’s just fun to root for the underdog because then the highs feel so much higher.
In a way that is the same reason Alina has many fans too - when they say how Alina is not Eteri’s favorite, or that her family is poor, or in other ways emphasize her suffering - they are casting her in the u feeding position. Everyone loves a Cinderella story. I guess I just like the Cinders part of it a bit more than princess ending

 

[ice coverage]

Winner of JWC is guaranteed two GP spots ...

Not true.
Unless the ISU makes it a new rule for the 2019 GP series.

 

[Ziotic]

come on. RusFed is the one who will give "the list" of skaters which "wish to skate at GP events". All assignments will be discussed in ISU meeting that will take place in May/June. RusFed can present whatever list they want.

While true this could get really messy if any of the skaters have to withdraw for any reason as no Russians would be eligible since there names weren’t submitted for GP.

Let’s say they only do 9 names
1. Alina
2. Liza
3/4/5. 3A
6. Zhenya
7. Sofia
8. Stasya
9. Maria

That means that if one withdraws no one else from Russia replaces them and then they have given spots to other countries which I don’t think they’d want.

I think it’s more likely they submit 11/12 names and then politik for the ones they want to get 2 spots.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

We are not questioning.
We are just genuinely surprised and puzzled on how many people disliked Zhenya before, while she was winning everything, and now that we dare to say the truth, "she is struggling", we suddenly because the h*ters

I welcome the new support. She deserves it! What she doesn’t deserve are the new fans who are taking advantage of her (situation) to flame nastiness toward her peers and former school. Especially in this thread which some people use as a place to sow division and discourse and then complain about how much of a wreck it is

Zhenya is and has always been a great competitor. I don’t care who her coach is or what style/technique she uses. I have always loved her competitive spirit. She wants to win and goes hard in pursuit of it. It’s very entertaining

Remember...it was only a few years ago when the hysterics and ranting against her were so ridiculous we coined the hashtag #FearTheMedvedeva

https://youtu.be/g8s6AXSDHvE

 

[dobrevaria]

We are not questioning.
We are just genuinely surprised and puzzled on how many people disliked Zhenya before, while she was winning everything, and now that we dare to say the truth, "she is struggling", we suddenly because the h*ters

I do think some people are actually happy to see Evgenia struggling, and those people are h*ters. They are the ones who are happy to be able to say "I told you so", concerning Evgenia's move to Orser.
But what really rubs me the wrong way, more than those obvious h*ters, is all those people who were criticizing meanly her all the time before, and when she moved to Brian, they changed their narrative. It's crazy because some posters here (but also on Twitter & others platforms) were tearing up apart during her winning streak, but now, of course, since she is the underdog, they are starting to support her. I can understand some people might change their minds, but Evgenia faced harsh criticism, most of the times related to her technique, and "overscoring", but also sometimes really personal, for example, concerning her character off-ice. It was definitely not a pretty thing to see. I just can't stand people who where disliking her like crazy before, and are now acting like they supported her since the beginning. It makes me sick.
I agree with you on this on this take.
However, let's not act like people who are pointing out Evgenia struggles are categorized as "h*ters" here. They are not. Actually, Zhenya's fandom know she is struggling (I mean...that's obvious) and I'm one of the biggest Evgenia's fan out there, and I have no problem listing all her (past, and current) problems. However, some people are categorized as h*ters on this forum because they do way more than pointing out the fact that she is struggling. They are questionning her choices and decisions, which is extremely patronising and condescending in my opinion. I would not call that "h*te", but I would not say they are just "telling the truth" either (it's not directed at you btw, just a general statement).

---

For the GP spots, it's really early to talk about it.
I think, we will have skaters who get 2 spots : Zagitova, Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Samodurova, Trusova, Kostornaia, Sotskova, Shcherbakova, Konstantinova.
I don't know if Tarusina is moving to seniors next year. I'm not sure Tsurkaya is going to get two GPs either...it will depends on the fed. A big question mark for Pogorilaya and Radionova. I suppose they are going to use the "comeback rule" ?

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Okay so I decided to make a bit of a more realistic 'how the spots will be distributed' by the guidelines of the grand prix and IMO there are two scenarios:

First we have a list with all the skaters in top 24 sbs
Alina Zagitova
J Alexandra Trusova
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
J Alena Kostornaia
J Anna Shcherbakova
Evgenia Medvedeva
Sofia Samodurova
Serafima Sakhanovich
Anna Tarusina
Anastasiia Gubanova
J(non eligible for gp)Alena Kanysheva
Stanislava Konstantinova

(Possible) comeback spot:
Anna Pogorilaya
Elena Radionova

First round(top six placements at worlds):
Now, considering Zhenya will not go, we will most likely have Elizaveta and Alina in the top six, so 4/18 spots gone

Second round(comeback skaters):
This depends on if rusfed gives them the chance or not. For scenario no°1 let's give Anna and Elena both one assignment so 6/18 spots gone. Scenario no°2 they don't make a comeback(rusfed is not allowing it) still 4/18

Round three(invited skater after worlds)
If Sofia goes to worlds and skates clean she will most likely place top 12 so she gets two spots(with comeback skaters now 8/18 spots taken, without 6/18)
If Zhenya goes, most likely two spots if she is not having and a meltdown and bombs everything(scen 1 8/18, scen 2 6/18)
If Stanislavia goes I guess she would place outside the top 12 so one spot guaranteed, fed likes her so two spots maybe for simplicity we'll say she'd get two(scen 1 8/18, scen 2 6/18)

Round for(top 24 sb):
This leaves(in order of standing):
J Alexandra Trusova
J Alena Kostornaia
J Anna Shcherbakova
Evgenia Medvedeva*
Sofia Samodurova*
Serafima Sakhanovich
Anna Tarusina
Anastasiia Gubanova
Stanislavia Konstantinova*
(* are for the skaters that may or may not go to worlds)

Let's say most possible scenario 3a sweep the podium at junior worlds that would mean all would highly likely get two spots so(scen 1: 14/18, scen 2: 12/18)
Evgenia/Sofia/Stanislavia the two that don't go to worlds will most likely get two spots as well(scen 1: 18/18, scen 2: 16/18)

Scenario 1(with Pogo/Radi getting comeback spots, that would mean Serafima, Anna T and Stasya G would not get any gp assignments

Scenario 2: Two from them would get a gp spot, considering the sb that would most likely be Serafima Sakhanovich and Anna Tarusina
Or(if Anna Tarusina stays in Juniors)
Serafima and Anastasiya each get one

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Not true.
Unless the ISU makes it a new rule for the 2019 GP series.

Interesting...I was told that in a different thread not long ago and even offered a link. I don’t have time to search for it now and I’ll take you on your word. My memory sometimes is a bit

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Okay so I decided to make a bit of a more realistic 'how the spots will be distributed' by the guidelines of the grand prix and IMO there are two scenarios:

First we have a list with all the skaters in top 24 sbs
Alina Zagitova
J Alexandra Trusova
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
J Alena Kostornaia
J Anna Shcherbakova
Evgenia Medvedeva
Sofia Samodurova
Serafima Sakhanovich
Anna Tarusina
Anastasiia Gubanova
J(non eligible for gp)Alena Kanysheva
Stanislava Konstantinova

(Possible) comeback spot:
Anna Pogorilaya
Elena Radionova

First round(top six placements at worlds):
Now, considering Zhenya will not go, we will most likely have Elizaveta and Alina in the top six, so 4/18 spots gone

Second round(comeback skaters):
This depends on if rusfed gives them the chance or not. For scenario no°1 let's give Anna and Elena both one assignment so 6/18 spots gone. Scenario no°2 they don't make a comeback(rusfed is not allowing it) still 4/18

Round three(invited skater after worlds)
If Sofia goes to worlds and skates clean she will most likely place top 12 so she gets two spots(with comeback skaters now 8/18 spots taken, without 6/18)
If Zhenya goes, most likely two spots if she is not having and a meltdown and bombs everything(scen 1 8/18, scen 2 6/18)
If Stanislavia goes I guess she would place outside the top 12 so one spot guaranteed, fed likes her so two spots maybe for simplicity we'll say she'd get two(scen 1 8/18, scen 2 6/18)

Round for(top 24 sb):
This leaves(in order of standing):
J Alexandra Trusova
J Alena Kostornaia
J Anna Shcherbakova
Evgenia Medvedeva*
Sofia Samodurova*
Serafima Sakhanovich
Anna Tarusina
Anastasiia Gubanova
Stanislavia Konstantinova*
(* are for the skaters that may or may not go to worlds)

Let's say most possible scenario 3a sweep the podium at junior worlds that would mean all would highly likely get two spots so(scen 1: 14/18, scen 2: 12/18)
Evgenia/Sofia/Stanislavia the two that don't go to worlds will most likely get two spots as well(scen 1: 18/18, scen 2: 16/18)

Scenario 1(with Pogo/Radi getting comeback spots, that would mean Serafima, Anna T and Stasya G would not get any gp assignments

Scenario 2: Two from them would get a gp spot, considering the sb that would most likely be Serafima Sakhanovich and Anna Tarusina
Or(if Anna Tarusina stays in Juniors)
Serafima and Anastasiya each get one

I'm sorry I forgot Maria Sotskova bc of the World standings if we say she'd get one spot then only in scenario 2 with Serafima or both of them

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Interesting...I was told that in a different thread not long ago and even offered a link. I don’t have time to search for it now and I’ll take you on your word. My memory sometimes is a bit

I just read the rules and even though it doesn't state that the winner jwc will get 2 spots, it say that they will be included in the selection process(as well as the winner of jgpf) and if the expressed wanting to turn senior will most likely be able to get at least one, if not two spots