2018-2019 Russian Nationals Mens SP

[Metis]

I watched the top 3. Ruslan is coaching Or just choreographing..? Do you think Miliukov has any chance to be chosen for Euros if he skates the Free well?

No. Not unless tomorrow is truly a crack up, and even then... no.

 

[champagnerain]

Yes, from 2017/18 first jump in a combo can be landed on the opposite foot. So there is no GOE penalty for that anymore. However, cause skater need to change the landing foot the combo may not look so efforthless and position in the air may not look that pleasing cause the change of axis in the air, so the combo probably won't be awarded with much positive GOEs.

Dmitriev always looks crazy whilst doing this combo (although to be fair, his jumps have a tendency to look crazy sometimes regardless of what foot he's landing on ), so I'm still wondering if it's possible to make a combo look "effortless" with the first jump landed on the wrong foot. I wish more people were crazy enough to try this kind of combination just so I can have something to compare it to. But Dmitriev has a tendency to do crazy things no one else would contemplate, which I find very charming regardless of where he ends up in the standings.

 

[Tolstoj]

Wait a minute ... who's Miliukov?? Really great skate :shocked:

Also, I call bee es Kovtun's PCS compared to Misha's. Yes, Misha's a little off today (sinusitis is no joke, obviously), but LOL. If Kovtun becomes Nats Champ .................

Don't you know this is Buyanova's Cup? Of course he's going to win unless he bombs big time, but to be fair it has to be said, the situation is a little depressing for Russia with the mens: they can't even skate a clean program with one quad.

You can tell in the KnC Uspenski is probably the guy that brought Maxim competitive again, he was upset for the fall in the 3A while Buyanova was happy anyway because of the score.

I watched the top 3. Ruslan is coaching Or just choreographing..? Do you think Miliukov has any chance to be chosen for Euros if he skates the Free well?

With a clean free skate he should finish in the top 3. In this field everyone is inconsistent, so those who don't fall will be rewarded.

 

[cohen-esque]

There’s a -1 to -3 GOE deduction for “Weak landing (bad pos./wrong edge/scratching etc.),” and the technical handbook says that a jump landed on the wrong edge won’t be called by the TP but that judges will reflect the issue in GOE. But the final GOE wouldn’t necessarily have to be negative if a judge applied a -1 GOE penalty for landing on the wrong edge but felt there were enough positive features to offset.

For the Flip the landing edge in a first jump in a combo is fine. He would need to change the edge for Lz, so Lz as a second jump in a combo is less possible. S as a second jump would be also possible (also without Eu).

Yeah, if you land in the other foot, then the inside edge *is* the correct landing edge— that’s the entire point of doing it that way. You don’t lose GOE for landing on the proper edge.

He’d lose GOE landing wrong on the +3Lz, and probably wouldn’t be helped by it being such an awkward combination to look at. (I don’t actually know whether if a skater managed to purposely land on an inside edge, say controlling it with a clearly deliberate transitional turn or something, whether they’d lose GOE, but it would surely be *extremely* difficult)

 

[Metis]

Yeah, if you land in the other foot, then the inside edge *is* the correct landing edge— that’s the entire point of doing it that way. You don’t lose GOE for landing on the proper edge.

He’d lose GOE landing wrong on the +3Lz, and probably wouldn’t be helped by it being such an awkward combination to look at. (I don’t actually know whether if a skater managed to purposely land on an inside edge, say controlling it with a clearly deliberate transitional turn or something, whether they’d lose GOE, but it would surely be *extremely* difficult)

I wonder if the novelty of the combo and the immediate impression of something being “wrong” doesn’t lower his GOE. Even if you know it’s coming — the 3F’s landing still is a bit jarring because you’ve seen the same RBO landing position a million times. It‘s not an aesthetically pleasing combination, at the very least, and then there’s the +3Lz landing.

There’s nothing about mandatory deductions for the landing of the combo, which is likely why he’s going for it, but I also can’t blame a judge who thinks the negative GOE bullet for a bad landing applies? Or if a judge just applies a heuristic of “that looks like a -1 jump” and scores accordingly. It’s definitely not an effortless combination, and there’s no flow between the two jumps or out of the -3Lz.

 

[cohen-esque]

I wonder if the novelty of the combo and the immediate impression of something being “wrong” doesn’t lower his GOE. Even if you know it’s coming — the 3F’s landing still is a bit jarring because you’ve seen the same RBO landing position a million times. It‘s not an aesthetically pleasing combination, at the very least, and then there’s the +3Lz landing.

There’s nothing about mandatory deductions for the landing of the combo, which is likely why he’s going for it, but I also can’t blame a judge who thinks the negative GOE bullet for a bad landing applies? Or if a judge just applies a heuristic of “that looks like a -1 jump” and scores accordingly. It’s definitely not an effortless combination, and there’s no flow between the two jumps or out of the -3Lz.

Well, I can. A judge who’s so lacking in knowledge about the sport that they blindly deduct for something that’s not even a mistake should be banned. But then, I probably have too much faith in the judges, anyway. Of course, if he could only land on the inside edge *poorly,* it would be another matter, but his attempts that I’ve seen look pretty average; the awkward moment between them isn’t really any worse than the majority of sloppy Euler combos that we’ve seen a million times and which somehow get +GOE. I think it’s just more noticeable because the triples happen in immediate succession.

I do love this combo for the novelty despite it being so bad-looking. And it’s definitely a unique skill of his... no one else has ever done it, except some random guy in the 70s, and I think he’s the level of skater who can really benefit, career but more “legacy-wise” by having his own novelty trademark, which I think is reason enough to do it. It’s gotten him revived attention that had been missing for the past few seasons.

We never see creativity or novelty anymore under IJS. To me if a skater dropped a neat trademark move they worked hard to master just for the sake of a few tenths in GOE... well. It’s a little soulcrushing.

 

[Metis]

Well, I can. A judge who’s so lacking in knowledge about the sport that they blindly deduct for something that’s not even a mistake should be banned. But then, I probably have too much faith in the judges, anyway. Of course, if he could only land on the inside edge *poorly,* it would be another matter, but his attempts that I’ve seen look pretty average; the awkward moment between them isn’t really any worse than the majority of sloppy Euler combos that we’ve seen a million times and which somehow get +GOE. I think it’s just more noticeable because the triples happen in immediate succession.

I gave up on the judges eons ago. Though when I said I wouldn’t blame one — I suppose I meant I wouldn’t blame a judge for defaulting to a mental shortcut (“that looks like a -1 jump”) rather than thinking through how the element has to be performed and what that will translate to in execution, etc., at least not in the moment the combination is performed and a number jotted down. Maybe with a bit more time? I mean, assuming that’s even part of the problem.

Sloppy Eulers sound like some horrible knockoff brand of Sloppy Joe mix made with sawdust, by the way.

I do love this combo for the novelty despite it being so bad-looking. And it’s definitely a unique skill of his... no one else has ever done it, except some random guy in the 70s, and I think he’s the level of skater who can really benefit, career but more “legacy-wise” by having his own novelty trademark, which I think is reason enough to do it. It’s gotten him revived attention that had been missing for the past few seasons.

As a career-move, the combo is genius: it may not be especially attractive, but Artur isn’t really a naturally lyrical skater to begin with, so it’s not like he’s breaking up an extremely delicate routine with the combo. In a crowded field, it gives him a brand and some name ID as the guy who does the thing, which is a huge boon. At the same time... I hate the combo. It was a neat trick the first time, and maybe even this third time, in that he not only did it but has done it consistently — but then considering the 4A attempt, it all starts to feel like gimmicks and no substance. (And I legit don’t care who lands the first 4A; I’m just not a fan of throwing in a buzzword element you have no hope of succeeding at for the sake of headlines.) And past the gimmicks, I struggle to connect to Artur and see a distinctive perspective. Which is probably why I wish he’d ditch the tech and deliver a clean short that gives me a clear sense of his identity as a skater.

We never see creativity or novelty anymore under IJS. To me if a skater dropped a neat trademark move they worked hard to master just for the sake of a few tenths in GOE... well. It’s a little soulcrushing.

I really hate how IJS has turned elements into an exercise in counting features. Spins, lifts, step sequences... I am tired of seeing the same three spins season after season from everyone, because when you allocate features for maximum points, that’s the combination of spins you get and there’s no reason to do anything different — just pick the spin that matches a specific bit of music the best and call it a day. No point in actually changing features and positions. (Even if you wanted to, you couldn’t, because you’d block a spin box... awesome.) Lifts — yeah, those level features look difficult, and looking difficult does not make for attractive skating (or safe skating, which is even more important). I don’t care how many frills you tack on to your dismount: I just want to see a lift that looks secure that hits right on the music and an elegant release, not “wait I have to flip you around and upside down for the feature.”

I agree with you in the main, and yet I still don’t like the combo. :think: To me, it’s an example of “just because you CAN doesn’t mean you SHOULD.” Partly because I worry about his ankles. >.< But IJS loves nothing so much as the status quo, and maybe that’s why I find Artur’s pushing of the boundaries more of a gimmick than a real moment — I mean, you’re not supposed to colour outside the lines in IJS, which makes any foreign element automatically bad... I probably have absorbed that bias, since 6.0 was before my time.

 

[Step Sequence4]

Milliukov is pretty much as good as Voronov...

 

[vorravorra]

Konstantin MILIUKOV: who is this guy? Never mind, I know…he is the prove that anything can happen in Russian men fs. edit: he was junior in 2012 and skates at nationals every 4 years. this IS the year of the uncles

Milyukov is only 24.

 

[elektra blue]

honorary uncle then

 

[champs]

Well, I can. A judge who’s so lacking in knowledge about the sport that they blindly deduct for something that’s not even a mistake should be banned. But then, I probably have too much faith in the judges, anyway. Of course, if he could only land on the inside edge *poorly,* it would be another matter, but his attempts that I’ve seen look pretty average; the awkward moment between them isn’t really any worse than the majority of sloppy Euler combos that we’ve seen a million times and which somehow get +GOE. I think it’s just more noticeable because the triples happen in immediate succession.

I do love this combo for the novelty despite it being so bad-looking. And it’s definitely a unique skill of his... no one else has ever done it, except some random guy in the 70s, and I think he’s the level of skater who can really benefit, career but more “legacy-wise” by having his own novelty trademark, which I think is reason enough to do it. It’s gotten him revived attention that had been missing for the past few seasons.

We never see creativity or novelty anymore under IJS. To me if a skater dropped a neat trademark move they worked hard to master just for the sake of a few tenths in GOE... well. It’s a little soulcrushing.

Great post, everything you mentioned here I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Metis]

Yeah were have all the combos gone?!

That was a cute skate...Artem looks 12 or something and there he is rocking out.

Right, I promised you a Where Have All the Cowboys gone parody. In honour of our surviving the RusNats men’s event:
Oh, get my stream ready to the sound of Zambonis
Why don’t we have a Sochi emoji?
The men are splatting hardcore
Like Kovtun really did cast a curse

I would do a PBP
If cursing were allowed
Where is Aliev’s Axel?
Where is Samarin’s three toe?
Where have all the combos gone?

Why did you do a quad toe
When I know that you know
Zayaking is kind of your thing?
Oh, I know your side hurts from crashing the boards
Please don’t fall out of the rink

Misha was the cleanest
What the BLEEP is this event?
Where are my Mishin GIFs?
Why won’t TAT shut up?
Where have all the combos gone?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Right, I promised you a Where Have All the Cowboys gone parody.

Metis, I'm honoured to be the recipient of this!

Where have all the combos gone indeed.