2018-2019 Season - New rules

[SnowWhite]

The proposal is now to cut one of the spins in the pairs so that you get 1 combination spin in one program and 1 SBS spin in the other. Whether this is a good thing is another matter. To me SBS spins are a real test of a pair re synchronisation, alongside the SBS jumps, they're what being a pair is all about. Also how they're going to fit it all in is another matter. From what I've seen spins typically take about 20 seconds so something else is going to have to give, and they're hardly hanging around as it is.

I've counted 20-22 secs without the transitions in and out of the spin, so I think they'll only have to make up a few seconds elsewhere. It' a lot worse for the men.

 

[Ziotic]

I've counted 20-22 secs without the transitions in and out of the spin, so I think they'll only have to make up a few seconds elsewhere. It' a lot worse for the men.

Won’t the men now have the same element requirement and time allotment as the women have always had? I though the only difference before was the 30sec and one extra jumping pass?

 

[SnowWhite]

Won’t the men now have the same element requirement and time allotment as the women have always had? I though the only difference before was the 30sec and one extra jumping pass?

One jumping pass takes a lot less than 30 seconds though, and quads take a lot more time to set up I guess.

 

[Andrea82]

The proposals to be voted at Congress have been published by ISU

https://www.isu.org/communications/17037-isu-communication-2156/file

 

[rikaquegira]

83. SINGLE & PAIR, ICE DANCE AND SYNCHRONIZED SKATING TECHNICAL COMMITTEES
Rule 134, paragraph 3 f)
Amend as follows:
f) In Figure Skating the Referee shall present after the completion of each segment (Short Program and Free Skating
for Ladies, Men, Pairs and in Synchronized Skating and Short Rhythm Dance and Free Dance for Ice Dance) an small
ISU gold medal to the winner of each event and small silver and bronze medals to the second and third in each discipline,
but no anthem shall be played or flags hoisted. The ceremony cannot be held on the ice and/or in the kiss and cry area.

Reason: To include the new title - Rhythm Dance. To delete the word “small” attached to the medals awarded after each
part of Figure Skating Championships. To award competitors during an official ceremony and publically recognize them
as the winners of Gold, Silver and Bronze Medals in each segment of the competition in addition to the winners of the
overall/final result, with a title of Champions.

Council Recommendation:
The Council is in favor of this Proposal but for the medals, the Council suggests replacing “small” by “segment”.

:think:

 

[lavenderblossom]

The proposals to be voted at Congress have been published by ISU

https://www.isu.org/communications/17037-isu-communication-2156/file

This makes for interesting reading...

190. Single & Pair, Ice Dance and Synchronized Skating Technical Committees
Rule 343
Music reproduction system
1. All programs must be skated to music.
2. All Competitors shall furnish competition music of excellent quality on CD and a backup thereof or in any other
approved format.
Reason: This requirement is missing in our regulations and is fundamental for our sport

:rofl2: Dammit, now this will be added and no one will have been able to exploit the loophole!

194. NETHERLANDS
Rule 353 – ISU Judging System – determination and publication of results
Add as paragraph 1 and renumber the existing paragraphs:
1. Principles of judging
a. Judges will mark Grade of Execution (GOE) and Program Components.
b. For all ISU Events and the (Youth) Olympic Winter Games the panel of Judges will be split as follows:
i. Five (5) [for Junior and Senior Grand Prix] to seven (7) Judges [for ISU Championships and (Youth)
Olympic Winter Games] will mark only GOE.
ii. Five (5) [for Junior and Senior Grand Prix] to seven (7) Judges [for ISU Championships and (Youth)
Olympic Winter Games] will mark only Program Components.
iii. If the number of Judges entered for a Junior Grand Prix is fewer than ten (10) for one discipline (e.g. in
Ice Dance), it is acceptable to work with fewer Judges, but no less than three (3) for GOE and/or
Components.
iv. The draw whether a judge is assigned to judge GOE or Program Components will be made 45 minutes
prior to the start of each Segment.
v. Each individual Judge will be acting in each Segment.
In existing paragraph 1.j), delete the word “also”:
j) Each Judge also marks the Program Components on a scale from 0.25 to 10 with 0.25 points increments.
Reasons: Our sport is getting more and more complex and therefore more demanding to judge. The revised GOE range
of +5 to -5 will require more accuracy of the Judges to assess correctly. Therefore the task to assess also more than 20
criteria within the Program Components is getting too much for an individual Judge. It will be more fair to both Judges
and skaters if the Program Components will be assessed by a separate panel of Judges.
Also, it will be more efficient to have each individual Judge acting in the whole event as now in ISU Championships 8
Judges are only judging one Segment and 5 Judges are judging both Segments.
Budget impact: The proposal will add one Judge for each panel to each ISU Championship, which accumulates to around
CHF 15,000.

:think:

 

[chopinskate]

190. Single & Pair, Ice Dance and Synchronized Skating Technical Committees
Rule 343
Music reproduction system
1. All programs must be skated to music.
2. All Competitors shall furnish competition music of excellent quality on CD and a backup thereof or in any other
approved format.
Reason: This requirement is missing in our regulations and is fundamental for our sport

Well, there goes my hope for someone skating to John Cage.

 

[lavenderblossom]

- Both Canada and Japan propose limits on backloading. Canada 2 jumps in SP and 4 jumps in FS, Japan last jump in SP and last 3 jumps in FS.
- Japan wants to reward skaters with a full set of 6 different clean triples/quads.
- Netherlands proposes to increase the PCS factor in men to 1.2 in SP and 2.4 in FS

The scores in the Men event for GOE and Program Components have gotten out of balance. We have seen more
and more instances where skaters score more than 50p TES in Short Program and more than 100p TES in Free Skating,
whereby at the moment the current score in Components in maximized on 50p and 100p respectively. With an increase
of 20% in the value of Components, the technical- and artistic side of Men skating will be brought back in balance.

it's surprising how many proposals are ones we discussed here... :think:

203. NETHERLANDS
Rule 353 – ISU Judging System – determination and publication of results
Paragraph 1n), in the table showing Violations, delete the entire row for “Fall”:
Reasons:
1. Falls are mostly caused by errors in the execution of elements. Reductions are already taken by Judges in the GOE.
86
2. All falls associated with the execution of elements and also falls outside of elements, as well as serious errors
executing elements, impact the Program Components to some extent. We therefore believe for every fall or serious
error, Judges must make mandatory reductions in the Program Components.
3. The absolute point reduction for falls (1p, 2p etc.) has an unequal impact on the score for e.g. a Junior Lady compared
to a Senior Man.
4. To take the reduction for Falls away from the responsibilities of the Technical Panel will contribute to the desired
reduction in review time.

That would be a pretty radical change, but it makes sense. We all want bigger penalties for falls among the top men but just upping the deduction across the board would be disastrous for lower-level competitions.
Mandatory deduction in PCS for falls sounds great :agree:
But I'm not sure it would make a sufficient distinction between a fall and another error worthy of -3 for example UR,step,hand etc. edit: wait no, with +5/-5, you could do it, and that's what this proposal is about so nevermind lol

234. NETHERLANDS
Rule 430 – General and specific duties and powers
Under 2. Duties of the Judges, add as second bullet:
- make the required reductions in Program Components for falls, serious errors and interruptions caused by the
skater
- evaluate each Program Component according to its individual criteria
Reasons: We can observe that Program Components are scored too high when skaters have falls and serious errors in
their programs as well as interruptions caused by the skater. Judges are looking for more specific guidelines on this and
we propose that the Technical Committees publish detailed guidelines in a Communication. The second proposed
bullet in simply an omission in the current Rules

... Evaluating each component according to its individual criteria is not currently in the rules... :shocked:
Is this why all PCS scores are the same????

Netherlands is also proposing some measures to combat national bias, I see...

 

[cohen-esque]

Some proposed changes to Olympic spots qualifications. If i’m not reading these wrong, then a case example of these rules would have come into play for the USA Pairs last season- we would get one spot for the Knierims, as we had no other team that reached the Worlds FS, but would have gotten the chance to enter a second team in the qualifying event to earn a spot at Nebelhorn (Cain/LeDuc) for a total of two spots.

In general these rules would better reflect the actual strength of the field for the Olympics, but would occasionally also give a second chance for countries in the case of an unexpectedly disastrous Worlds showing.

211. Single & Pair Skating Technical and Ice Dance Technical Committees
Rule 400, para 3 and 4 - Entries to the Olympic Winter Games
A. Entries of Competitors
1. The maximum number of entries for the Olympic Winter Games is thirty (30) for Ladies and Men, twenty (20) for Pairs and twenty-four (24) for Ice Dance. In Single Skating the best placed twenty-four (24) Competitors in the Short Program will qualify for the final Free Skating. In Pair Skating the best placed sixteen (16) Pairs in the Short Program will qualify for the final Free Skating. In Ice Dance, the best placed twenty (20) Couples in the Short Dance will qualify for the final Free Dance.
2. ISU Members who have participated in the immediately preceding World Senior Championships accumulate points according to Rule 378, paragraph 2.b) and c).
3. Twenty-four (24) entries for Ladies and Men, sixteen (16) entries for Pairs and nineteen (19) entries for Ice Dance will be determined according to the classification outlined in paragraph 2 above. ISU Members who have earned the necessary points according to Rule 378, paragraph 2b) and c) will have the right for two (2) or three (3) entries if, in addition, they had two (2), respectively three (3) Competitors qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance in the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG. The remaining entries under this paragraph 3 will be attributed to the ISU Members with the best placed and qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance Skaters at the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG.
4. The remaining open entries available will be filled by ISU Members in order of their placements at a Senior International Competition designated by the ISU as qualifying event and conducted in the autumn of the calendar year immediately preceding the Olympic Winter Games. The open entries are available only to:

a) ISU Members which have not previously earned an entry, for only one entry per such ISU Member.
b) ISU Members which have earned the necessary points for two (2) or three (3) entries but did not have two (2) respectively three (3) skaters qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG. Such ISU Members are entitled to enter one skater in the qualifying event who, however, cannot be a skater that had qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG.

Reason: To have the possibility to include more Members and to have the best skaters entered into the OWG.

 

[Osmond4gold]

I can be a fan without thinking that the skater's perfect. I know they all have flaws -- I know Evgenia flutzes, and Alina tends to rush. I know that Kaori also flutzes or that Bradie hasn't found her performance stride quite yet. It doesn't mean I like them any less -- it means I acknowledge that no one person can be perfect.

You do you boo, and continue to discount all non-russian skaters, as you have done so ad nauseum this season.

For the record and much to your chagrin, Kaetlyn Osmond is World Champion!

 

[karne]

For the record and much to your chagrin, Kaetlyn Osmond is World Champion!

And you'll never let us forget it.


I had a good laugh at the removal of the ban on tights for men. And then I sighed: "Loin King! Oh Loin King! You retired a year too early! This is your rule!"

Some of these are okay, some of them are outright stupid.

The proposals by Japan and Canada about the backloading bans just make them look petty and childish, sorry. It's too blatantly targeted.

Likewise, I have no doubt that the proposals to ban you from doing a certain type of quad more than once, and the removal of the steps into the solo jump in the SP, came from a US delegate (obvious immediate beneficiaries are Chen and Zhou).

I like the bonus for the all six types, but I want some clarifications added to it: you shouldn't get the bonus if you flutz, lip or UR the jumps.

Removing the fall deduction and expecting the hit to come out of PCS is optimistic at best. For that to work, they will need some fixed deductions from PCS for each fall. Otherwise, it'll just be a farce.

 

[Harriet]

... Evaluating each component according to its individual criteria is not currently in the rules... :shocked:
Is this why all PCS scores are the same????

Well, the Netherlands certainly seems to be trying to address the vexed issue of corridor marking in PCS, so good for them. Somebody clearly understands how criterion-referenced scoring is supposed to work. And I'm happy someone is tackling the issue of national bias in scoring too.

Boznia and Herzegovina, on the other hand, are flailing about rather in their suggested changes and seem to be in need of a cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down before they burst something, but hey, at least they're contributing.

 

[Andrea82]

Likewise, I have no doubt that the proposals to ban you from doing a certain type of quad more than once, and the removal of the steps into the solo jump in the SP, came from a US delegate (obvious immediate beneficiaries are Chen and Zhou).

.

These two proposals come from ISU Single and Pair Technical Committee (composition is Italy, Japan, Australia, Belgium, USA and Switzerland)

 

[Li'Kitsu]

And you'll never let us forget it.


I had a good laugh at the removal of the ban on tights for men. And then I sighed: "Loin King! Oh Loin King! You retired a year too early! This is your rule!"

Some of these are okay, some of them are outright stupid.

The proposals by Japan and Canada about the backloading bans just make them look petty and childish, sorry. It's too blatantly targeted.

Likewise, I have no doubt that the proposals to ban you from doing a certain type of quad more than once, and the removal of the steps into the solo jump in the SP, came from a US delegate (obvious immediate beneficiaries are Chen and Zhou).

I like the bonus for the all six types, but I want some clarifications added to it: you shouldn't get the bonus if you flutz, lip or UR the jumps.

Removing the fall deduction and expecting the hit to come out of PCS is optimistic at best. For that to work, they will need some fixed deductions from PCS for each fall. Otherwise, it'll just be a farce.

Agreed with pretty much all of this.

Regarding Japan wanting to limit the backloading, I'm especially surprised as IMO quite a few Japanese ladies have really used that themselves (Kaori and Waka for example). It feels like their taking an advantage from them away too.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Agreed with pretty much all of this.

Regarding Japan wanting to limit the backloading, I'm especially surprised as IMO quite a few Japanese ladies have really used that themselves (Kaori and Waka for example). It feels like their taking an advantage from them away too.

They may figure that they're removing more from the Russians, than from their own, and that overall the benefits outweigh the cost. It probably does actually work out something like that.

_____


I have to say I laughed and laughed at the no steps prior to solo jump. I wonder who benefits there. Boy do I wonder

 

[colormyworld240]

Because Russian junior ladies have a reputation of being '16 and done', as many do not perform the same tricks nor skate to the same level as they once did, post puberty. Doing something at 12 years of age versus the same tricks at 18, are 2 completely different things.

Not sure how many 16 and done skaters you're actually referring to? You mean Lipnitskaya? Because others above 16 are still competing... just because you don't make it to Euros/Worlds doesn't mean you're "done". Radionova skates pretty much the same as she always has, Tukt skated well on GP and still jumps well, Pogo is as inconsistent as she always has been and has injured so she missed a few comps, Sotskova has always been worse in the latter part of the season than earlier, and Evgenia also has been injured and missed a few comps but pretty much skates the same way she did when she was 15, Alina bombed one comp, who hasn't? I wouldn't say ant of them are done, or doing worse than any skater of any other nationality has at some points their careers. You seem to say Spirals discounts all non-Russians, but you seem to discount all Russians so I'm not sure how that's any better? And for the record, I don't think anyone actually disagrees with Kaetlyn being world champion...

 

[chopinskate]

... Evaluating each component according to its individual criteria is not currently in the rules... :shocked:
Is this why all PCS scores are the same????

Netherlands is also proposing some measures to combat national bias, I see...

...

Of course it isn't.
Of course.

I have to wonder if the feds are all dumb, or if they are all geniuses with really good lawyers.

I do hope the individual criteria for PCS are revamped, too, though. "Transitions" needs to be defined by quality, not quantity, along with "Skating Skills".

 

[gkelly]

I do hope the individual criteria for PCS are revamped, too, though. "Transitions" needs to be defined by quality, not quantity, along with "Skating Skills".

"Quality" is already a criterion for the Transitions score. "Quantity" is not.

The current criteria are:
*Continuity of movements from one element to another (which is also more qualitative than quantitative)
*Variety
*Difficulty
*Quality

 

[chopinskate]

"Quality" is already a criterion for the Transitions score. "Quantity" is not.

The current criteria are:
*Continuity of movements from one element to another (which is also more qualitative than quantitative)
*Variety
*Difficulty
*Quality

OK, then I hope it actually starts showing in the scores.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

OK, then I hope it actually starts showing in the scores.

It already is! Just look at Caro's TR score for example. Quality is not the only criteria though. Skaters can score high in every component by fulfilling different criteria (with different approach)! - TR you can 1) with good quality, very good continuity and variety and excellent difficulty or 2) with good difficulty and variety and excellent continuity and quality or with some other combination of those...