2018 USFS Olympic team selection thoughts

[Ender]

I don't think Gold can make it to the Olympic this time.

 

[fallingsk8er]

I don't think Gold can make it to the Olympic this time.

....But if she does go the Olympics and wins the gold medal, that will be the best skating comeback story in a long time.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

....But if she does go the Olympics and wins the gold medal, that will be the best skating comeback story in a long time.

I can't quite count Gracie out. I really think she has a shot. She's training with her friend Maia, she's out from under Frank Carroll, it's the Olympics and she wants to go, the USFSA will really push for her to go......

 

[charlotte14]

....But if she does go the Olympics and wins the gold medal, that will be the best skating comeback story in a long time.

But she has to be consistent. History says 2 of the medalists in the previous WC will be medalists at the Olympic, it often works way. Gracie has it all if she can pull herself together but I think people have lost faith in her after so many disappointments.

 

[skylark]

Let's also remember that there was no racial accusations to deal with unlike Ashley & Mirai.
And perhaps the biggest one - nobody was still whinging about the situation four years later, as everyone is doing now.

It's amusing, isn't it. But I have to say, NOT everyone is doing it ; but a surprising number still are.

The racial accusation, I think, was just someone looking for an angle to push. I recall USFSA (or the Olympic committee?) pointing out that quite a healthy percentage of the athletes representing USA at the Olympics were of Asian ethnicity: Madison Chock, Maia and Alex Shibutani, and Felicia Zhang from the figure skating disciplines alone.

 

[chuckm]

But she has to be consistent. History says 2 of the medalists in the previous WC will be medalists at the Olympic, it often works way. Gracie has it all if she can pull herself together but I think people have lost faith in her after so many disappointments.

Shizuka Arakawa wasn't a medalist at the previous WC---she was 9th at Worlds 09 yet she won Olympic gold in 2010.

 

[Ice Dance]

It's amusing, isn't it. But I have to say, NOT everyone is doing it ; but a surprising number still are.

Were you there? In Boston at U.S. Nationals in 2014? Because if you were, there was nothing amusing about it at all. Even if you were sitting in the stands and knew as soon as the FS results came in exactly what would happen. It is not the kind of experience that one ever forgets. Nor should it be forgotten. It isn't the type of decision that is ever made without consequences, and the people making these type of decisions need to recognize that. I have zero problem with the fact that people complain four years later. People complain about a great many decisions in skating decades later. Decades of precedent were overturned with the enforcement of this particular decision.

 

[largeman]

Shizuka Arakawa wasn't a medalist at the previous WC---she was 9th at Worlds 09 yet she won Olympic gold in 2010.

Neither was Adelina Sotnikova in 2013... But charlotte14's statement was that "2 of the medalists in the previous WC will be medalists at the Olympics," which has been true for the last eight Olympics in a row for ladies. To find an exception you'd have to go back to the 1984 Olympics, where only one of the medalists (Rosalynn Sumners) medaled at Worlds the previous year.

2014: Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner
2010: Yuna Kim, Joannie Rochette
2006: Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutskaya
2002: Sarah Hughes, Irina Slutskaya, Michelle Kwan
1998: Tara Lipinski, Michelle Kwan
1994: Oksana Baiul, Lu Chen
1992: Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan
1988: Katarina Witt, Debi Thomas
1984: Rosalyn Sumners
1980: Linda Fratianne, Anett Pötzsch
1976: Dorothy Hamill, Dianne de Leeuw, Christine Errath
1972: Trixi Schuba, Karen Magnussen
And so on...

 

[largeman]

2010: Yuna Kim, Joannie Rochette
2006: Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutskaya
2002: Sarah Hughes, Irina Slutskaya, Michelle Kwan
1998: Tara Lipinski, Michelle Kwan
1994: Oksana Baiul, Lu Chen
1992: Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan
...

Btw, interesting historical patterns with the recent Olympics medalists who didn't medal in the previous year's WC:

2010: Mao Asada - World Champion 2 years ago in 2008
2006: Shizuka Arakawa - World Champion 2 years ago in 2004
2002: None
1998: Lu Chen - World silver 2 years ago in 1996 (also World Champion 3 years ago in 1995)
1994: Nancy Kerrigan - World silver 2 years ago in 1992
1992: Midori Ito - World silver 2 years ago in 1990 (also World Champion 3 years ago in 1989)

I guess the best bet is to send Ashley - world silver medalist in 2016!

 

[Moxiejan]

Decades of precedent were overturned with the enforcement of this particular decision.

Decades ago, USFS did not have a selection protocol (published 6 months before Nationals) that indicated that Nationals was NOT an Olympic trials and that listed specific "body of work" events that could be used to pick the team.

Thus, nothing was "overturned" in 2014.

 

[Jammers]

Decades ago, USFS did not have a selection protocol (published 6 months before Nationals) that indicated that Nationals was NOT an Olympic trials and that listed specific "body of work" events that could be used to pick the team.

Thus, nothing was "overturned" in 2014.

2014 was something that in my lifetime had never happened before. A 2 time defending US Ladies champion didn't even make it on the podium in an Olympic year that just does not happen. All the great US Ladies in the past with a resume like Ashley always managed to at least finish in the top 3 and make the Olympic team but Ashley choked big time. I imagine the USFSA would have made the same decision if Tonia Kwiatkowski had stayed in the top 3 in 1998 and Tara finished in 4th. No way was the USFSA going to leave world champion Tara Lipinski at home for the Olympics so someone most likely Tonia would have been dumped but Tara moved up to 2nd so it was a moot point.

 

[TontoK]

Why yes, yes I am, because I was an adult swimmer racing these athletes at the time and who also had family members holding official positions within Swimming Australia.
Why you're assuming I'm young, or not Australian, I have I no idea.

Attention? Ok mate, what would you consider easier to ignore - a hardcopy newspaper, or a story that pops up on the mobile phone you use constantly?
Let's also remember that there was no racial accusations to deal with unlike Ashley & Mirai.
And perhaps the biggest one - nobody was still whinging about the situation four years later, as everyone is doing now.

"Second chance"in track? Not anymore. That rule changed awhile ago.

I think Mirai should have gone to Olympics, and not Ashley. I've been pretty clear on that.

That said, I don't recall accusations of racism or bias, and I certainly don't think that entered into the discussion.

USFSA made the decision based on its own (flawed, in my opinion) criteria, with no regard to the ethnicity of the athletes.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think Mirai should have gone to Olympics, and not Ashley. I've been pretty clear on that.

That said, I don't recall accusations of racism or bias, and I certainly don't think that entered into the discussion.

USFSA made the decision based on its own (flawed, in my opinion) criteria, with no regard to the ethnicity of the athletes.

I agree that no racial bias was involved in the decision. In fact, I think it's dangerous to even make such an allegation because it diminishes the outrage over the many instances in which there is actual racism.

 

[Ender]

Btw, interesting historical patterns with the recent Olympics medalists who didn't medal in the previous year's WC:

2010: Mao Asada - World Champion 2 years ago in 2008
2006: Shizuka Arakawa - World Champion 2 years ago in 2004
2002: None
1998: Lu Chen - World silver 2 years ago in 1996 (also World Champion 3 years ago in 1995)
1994: Nancy Kerrigan - World silver 2 years ago in 1992
1992: Midori Ito - World silver 2 years ago in 1990 (also World Champion 3 years ago in 1989)

I guess the best bet is to send Ashley - world silver medalist in 2016!

My mind isn't working right now so I had to read it several times to understand what does this mean. I guess Olympic in Korea might be lucky for Wagner.

 

[karne]

I have zero problem with the fact that people complain four years later. People complain about a great many decisions in skating decades later. Decades of precedent were overturned with the enforcement of this particular decision.

But the decision was perfectly logical. Nagasu had not been performing all season. Wagner had - medalling at GPs, medalling at GPF. It was an absolute no-brainer. You send the skater whose form has been the best. Besides, if the tech panel had not been marshmallows at US Nats, it would have been moot anyway, because Nagasu would not have finished third.

That said, I don't recall accusations of racism or bias, and I certainly don't think that entered into the discussion.

Did you have your head in the sand?! It was pretty much one of the first arguments that the Nagasu fans came out with! "Evil Racist USFS Wanted Only Blonde White Girls on the Olympic Team!" (Of course, they completely ignored the Shibutanis and Felicia Zhang and made ever-more ridiculous arguments about why they "didn't count").

 

[TontoK]

But the decision was perfectly logical. Nagasu had not been performing all season. Wagner had - medalling at GPs, medalling at GPF. It was an absolute no-brainer. You send the skater whose form has been the best. Besides, if the tech panel had not been marshmallows at US Nats, it would have been moot anyway, because Nagasu would not have finished third.



Did you have your head in the sand?! It was pretty much one of the first arguments that the Nagasu fans came out with! "Evil Racist USFS Wanted Only Blonde White Girls on the Olympic Team!" (Of course, they completely ignored the Shibutanis and Felicia Zhang and made ever-more ridiculous arguments about why they "didn't count").

Honestly, I don't recall that at all. But I'll take your word for it, and I'll clarify my position:

I believed then, and I still believe today, that Nagasu should have gotten the nod. However, I do not believe USFSA selected the team on the basis of race/ethnicity of the athletes.

 

[twirlingaround]

I never said that they weren't the favorites. They probably are, although i confess I don't follow US Pairs that closely.

But there's a big difference in saying they're favored, and saying that USFSA will surely send them, as I've seen put forth.

Those comments might be from uninformed participants. But there is some belief among the figure skating fan base that the Olympic spot has been predetermined. It is just assumed that they will get the spot, when the season hasn't even gotten underway.

The one and only Pairs spot is pretty much predetermined and Alexa and Chris will be the team to go and usfsa will be sure they go as they did their job at Worlds and they will be the US Champions even if they don't skate well! It's just how it goes and even if a new team emerges with significant improvement, it won't matter because usfsa will send Alexa and Chris as they got the job done at Worlds. It's not like their are any other teams who can out score them! So they deserve the one spot:agree:

 

[geige]

But the decision was perfectly logical. Nagasu had not been performing all season. Wagner had - medalling at GPs, medalling at GPF. It was an absolute no-brainer. You send the skater whose form has been the best. Besides, if the tech panel had not been marshmallows at US Nats, it would have been moot anyway, because Nagasu would not have finished third.



Did you have your head in the sand?! It was pretty much one of the first arguments that the Nagasu fans came out with! "Evil Racist USFS Wanted Only Blonde White Girls on the Olympic Team!" (Of course, they completely ignored the Shibutanis and Felicia Zhang and made ever-more ridiculous arguments about why they "didn't count").

Well, this seems familiar.

I'm just so sorry us Mirai fans, who definitely ALL believe and worship that race argument, are just so unreasonable and both mentally and morally inferior.

Sarcasm aside, most of us think that race card is absolutely ridiculous, because believe it or not, we CAN think rationally. And you're not going to be changing opinions by going around and yelling at people, especially if you're not bringing in any new points.

 

[Seren]

The one and only Pairs spot is pretty much predetermined and Alexa and Chris will be the team to go and usfsa will be sure they go as they did their job at Worlds and they will be the US Champions even if they don't skate well! It's just how it goes and even if a new team emerges with significant improvement, it won't matter because usfsa will send Alexa and Chris as they got the job done at Worlds. It's not like their are any other teams who can out score them! So they deserve the one spot:agree:

I'm not sure I believe this. The US only got 1 spot- I'm not sure I call that 'getting the job done'. I think they will have to fight for the spot like everyone else. A lot can happen in 4-5 months.

 

[Seren]

This is tough- for Men and Ladies there are definitely scenarios that I think are the most likely to happen. But honestly, I don't think any result will surprise me this year in those categories. Which is actually exciting.