2018 USFS Olympic team selection thoughts

[TontoK]

The one and only Pairs spot is pretty much predetermined and Alexa and Chris will be the team to go and usfsa will be sure they go as they did their job at Worlds and they will be the US Champions even if they don't skate well! It's just how it goes and even if a new team emerges with significant improvement, it won't matter because usfsa will send Alexa and Chris as they got the job done at Worlds. It's not like their are any other teams who can out score them! So they deserve the one spot:agree:

Well, I guess if you define "getting the job done at World's" as a 10th place finish, then I guess they did.

I agree they're probably the favorites, and I agree that USFSA will probably make sure they're the pair that goes, but let's not pretend they are some sort of premier medal contenders that merit some sort of special treatment.

 

[chameleon]

A tenth place finish normally? Perhaps not. A tenth place finish at their second competition of the season, a few months after Alexa nearly died, keeping two spots for worlds and would have kept two spots for the Olympics had it not been for a loophole? I'd say that was getting the job done.

 

[Seren]

A tenth place finish normally? Perhaps not. A tenth place finish at their second competition of the season, a few months after Alexa nearly died, keeping two spots for worlds and would have kept two spots for the Olympics had it not been for a loophole? I'd say that was getting the job done.

I admire all these things. But I still don't think it guarantees them the Olympic spot. It will depend on this upcoming season. If they perform- it's theirs. But if they don't it shouldn't be if someone else is better.

 

[el henry]

A tenth place finish normally? Perhaps not. A tenth place finish at their second competition of the season, a few months after Alexa nearly died, keeping two spots for worlds and would have kept two spots for the Olympics had it not been for a loophole? I'd say that was getting the job done.

This. Alexa and Chris had an amazing story, tenth at Worlds is an inspiring finish (good Lord, am I tired of the narrative that an only great finish is a medal finish. Horse feathers!:dev2, and given that it wasn't even sure (once she survived), how soon she would walk, let alone skate last year, they have my undying respect. That, and my girl Alexa tells it like it T-I-S, 'tis.....

So it depends on what one means by "special consideration". Does that mean that come Hades or high water, whatever happens, they should be "given" the Oly team spot? Heck, no. After all I my girl Deanna and my homie Nate as well, and what a great story if *they* went to the Olys. And I do believe in the "win it at Nats and go to the Olys" approach.

But do I believe that Alexa and Chris should be given "special consideration", as in esteem and acknowledgement that they are the best US pairs right now and right now the only US pairs team who in the past three years have consistently proven themselves on the World stage? To coin a phrase, you betcha:agree:

 

[Seren]

This. Alexa and Chris had an amazing story, tenth at Worlds is an inspiring finish (good Lord, am I tired of the narrative that an only great finish is a medal finish. Horse feathers!:dev2, and given that it wasn't even sure (once she survived), how soon she would walk, let alone skate last year, they have my undying respect. That, and my girl Alexa tells it like it T-I-S, 'tis.....

So it depends on what one means by "special consideration". Does that mean that come Hades or high water, whatever happens, they should be "given" the Oly team spot? Heck, no. After all I my girl Deanna and my homie Nate as well, and what a great story if *they* went to the Olys. And I do believe in the "win it at Nats and go to the Olys" approach.

But do I believe that Alexa and Chris should be given "special consideration", as in esteem and acknowledgement that they are the best US pairs right now and right now the only US pairs team who in the past three years have consistently proven themselves on the World stage? To coin a phrase, you betcha:agree:

To clarify- I think they deserve complete respect and admiration. What they did was more difficult than any of us can imagine. I don't mean to take away from that.

But I don't think how we feel about them as amazing people (and athletes) should guarantee the spot. Are they the best US team right now- definitely! But it should be what happens this season that determines who goes to the Olympics.

 

[el henry]

To clarify- I think they deserve complete respect and admiration. What they did was more difficult than any of us can imagine. I don't mean to take away from that.

But I don't think how we feel about them as amazing people (and athletes) should guarantee the spot. Are they the best US team right now- definitely! But it should be what happens this season that determines who goes to the Olympics.

Agreed.:thumbsup:

And if Deanna and Nate land those SBS 3Lutzes and quad throw at Nats???
I'm in

 

[Sai Bon]

> Horse feathers!

LOL el henry, I guessed the meaning from context, but just had to look it up (I'm very much from a British English background, and although I've studied American English, some expressions just make me smile!)
Sorry, off topic...

 

[StitchMonkey]

Well, I guess if you define "getting the job done at World's" as a 10th place finish, then I guess they did.

I agree they're probably the favorites, and I agree that USFSA will probably make sure they're the pair that goes, but let's not pretend they are some sort of premier medal contenders that merit some sort of special treatment.

In this case it did get the job done and I think this is a very unusual case. Alexa was having severe enough health issues at worlds that USFSA flew Ashley and Tim to Finland just in case. Alexa and Chris could have withdrawn after the short and protected her health but they did not, Alexa muscled through and at least got USA one guaranteed spot for the Olympics and two for worlds.

The funny thing is, had the withdrawn after the short for Alexa's health.... they may have actually ended up in a better position for themselves than they are in now. If USFSA had to go to Nebelhorn for the Olympic spot, there is a strong chance that Alexa and Chris would be sent, and in that case they could have locked their spot down. As I am pretty sure the Nebelhorn spots got to the skater, not the country. So really, it could have served them better to go to Nebelhorn instead and ensure their spot with no wiggle room. As it stands, it is a technical option to send someone. So really Nebelhorn might have been the less stressful option for them.

There skating at worlds helped USFSA pairs out more than it helped themselves. Frankly that should be rewarded and remembered. I do think they should get the spot as they earned even more than that spot for the USA when they could have been selfishly strategic, and we don't want to send the message to future skaters to be selfishly strategic.

A tenth place finish normally? Perhaps not. A tenth place finish at their second competition of the season, a few months after Alexa nearly died, keeping two spots for worlds and would have kept two spots for the Olympics had it not been for a loophole? I'd say that was getting the job done.

Well said!

Edit: I seem to be wrong about how Nebelhorn works.

 

[LRK]

In this case it did get the job done and I think this is a very unusual case. Alexa was having severe enough health issues at worlds that USFSA flew Ashley and Tim to Finland just in case. Alexa and Chris could have withdrawn after the short and protected her health but they did not, Alexa muscled through and at least got USA one guaranteed spot for the Olympics and two for worlds.

The funny thing is, had the withdrawn after the short for Alexa's health.... they may have actually ended up in a better position for themselves than they are in now. If USFSA had to go to Nebelhorn for the Olympic spot, there is a strong chance that Alexa and Chris would be sent, and in that case they could have locked their spot down. As I am pretty sure the Nebelhorn spots got to the skater, not the country. So really, it could have served them better to go to Nebelhorn instead and ensure their spot with no wiggle room. As it stands, it is a technical option to send someone. So really Nebelhorn might have been the less stressful option for them.

There skating at worlds helped USFSA pairs out more than it helped themselves. Frankly that should be rewarded and remembered. I do think they should get the spot as they earned even more than that spot for the USA when they could have been selfishly strategic, and we don't want to send the message to future skaters to be selfishly strategic.

Actually, I believe the spot goes to the country, not the skater. Last time, Brooklee won the spot for Australia at Nebelhorn, yet there was still talk of sending another skater instead.

 

[TontoK]

There skating at worlds helped USFSA pairs out more than it helped themselves. Frankly that should be rewarded and remembered. I do think they should get the spot as they earned even more than that spot for the USA when they could have been selfishly strategic, and we don't want to send the message to future skaters to be selfishly strategic.

I strongly disagree, if you mean that they should get the Olympic spot by virtue of past performances.

They should have to earn it. And if another team beats them, then the winning team should get the spot.

But, as has been implied, I suspect USFSA will put the thumb on the scale, if required, to make sure they win.

My hope is that a couple of other pairs who are showing some early season promise have breakthrough seasons, and that US Nationals is a high-stakes barn-burner, several pairs fighting tooth and nail for that lone spot.

 

[mrrice]

I strongly disagree, if you mean that they should get the Olympic spot by virtue of past performances.

They should have to earn it. And if another team beats them, then the winning team should get the spot.

But, as has been implied, I suspect USFSA will put the thumb on the scale, if required, to make sure they win.

My hope is that a couple of other pairs who are showing some early season promise have breakthrough seasons, and that US Nationals is a high-stakes barn-burner, several pairs fighting tooth and nail for that lone spot.

Exactly.....And it's not just pairs. If any skater wants to guarantee a spot on the team, they need to be consistent throughout the season. If a pair makes the GPF and is in tight battle at Nationals. I think the committee will with GPF pair. I think that's why Ashely got the spot in 2014 and I think all the skaters are well aware of what they need to do.

 

[gkelly]

As I am pretty sure the Nebelhorn spots got to the skater, not the country.

Actually, I believe the spot goes to the country, not the skater. Last time, Brooklee won the spot for Australia at Nebelhorn, yet there was still talk of sending another skater instead.

I agree -- I'm sure the Nebelhorn spots go to the country.

Here's the competition announcement:
http://static.isu.org/media/508473/owg-qualifying-competition-nebelhorn-trophy-2017-announcement.pdf

I see plenty of language about ISU members earning Olympic slots and nothing about individual skaters.

I seem to remember an Olympic qualification event in the past when some federation sent a skater who wasn't even Olympic eligible by age (in the days when the age minimum for fall competitions was 14 as of July 1 even though it was 15 for championships) or by citizenship to earn a spot for the country, to be used by an eligible skater. Or maybe I'm just remembering talk that a federation might or could do that, but in the end they did send an Olympic-eligible skater or no one to the qualifier.

 

[Impromptu]

I agree that the way they've competed in the past gives Scimeca and Knierim the inside track to that one spot. And even with missing most of last season they, and Kayne & O'Shea (who also missed a lot of the season) are still the highest ranked US teams in World Standings (but not so far ahead of everyone else that it should be a big factor). Also, they are the only US team that has ever scored over 200 (207 at 4 continents) at an ISU competition. Closest behind them is Denny/Fraizier (192 at Skate America). Given that the US needs a team capable of scoring well in the team competition, there's a solid reason why they're considered a heavy favorite to go to the Olympics, even if they don't win US Nationals.

However, if one of the other teams consistently scores over 200 during the Fall competitions, and if that other team ends up winning Nationals, then I could see the US sending that other team. But that would mean that (aside from D/F) they'd have to improve on their ISU personal bests by 20 points (Kayne/O'Shea), or 25 points (Castelli/Tran; Cain/LeDuc) or 50 points (Stellato/Batholomay). I do actually think that we haven't yet seen the best out of these other teams - can they improve their scores that much in a single season?

 

[ice coverage]

... As I am pretty sure the Nebelhorn spots got to the skater, not the country. ...

Actually, I believe the spot goes to the country, not the skater. Last time, Brooklee won the spot for Australia at Nebelhorn, yet there was still talk of sending another skater instead.

I agree -- I'm sure the Nebelhorn spots go to the country.

Here's the competition announcement:
http://static.isu.org/media/508473/owg-qualifying-competition-nebelhorn-trophy-2017-announcement.pdf

I see plenty of language about ISU members earning Olympic slots and nothing about individual skaters. ...

Agree with LRK and gkelly that OWG spots go to the country :agree:.

An additional indication is the ISU's OWG qualification document for 2018 -- which uses the same wording both for OWG spots earned at Worlds and for OWG spots earned at the senior international (which later officially was announced as Nebelhorn).

The official language is that "qualification places" are earned -- whether via Worlds or via Nebelhorn.
Again, nothing about individual skaters.

http://static.isu.org/media/309682/isu-figure-skating-en.pdf (see p. 3)​

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Agreed.:thumbsup:

And if Deanna and Nate land those SBS 3Lutzes and quad throw at Nats???
I'm in

This to me has the potential to be one the most incredible Nationals/Olympic stories. Deanna Stellato coming back at the age of 34 to do pairs - doing those crazy elements (that most seasoned pairs skaters can't do). They win Nationals and head to the Olympics.

While I want the Knierims to go to the Olympics, this Cinderellato story would be epic.

 

[TontoK]

This to me has the potential to be one the most incredible Nationals/Olympic stories. Deanna Stellato coming back at the age of 34 to do pairs - doing those crazy elements (that most seasoned pairs skaters can't do). They win Nationals and head to the Olympics.

While I want the Knierims to go to the Olympics, this Cinderellato story would be epic.

Nah. The great story would be Cain/LeDuc who teamed up only about two years ago. I really, really, really like this team. They have so much promise. I haven't see anything from them yet this year.

 

[SnowWhite]

Nah. The great story would be Cain/LeDuc who teamed up only about two years ago. I really, really, really like this team. They have so much promise. I haven't see anything from them yet this year.

Why is that a better story than Deanna and Nate? Deanna and Nate teamed up in July 2016 and Ashley and Tim teamed up in May 2016. So both partnerships are just over a year old. Tim took two years off after his last partnership ended to skate on cruise ships. Deanna retired in 2001, came back 15 years later having never done pairs before. Though both would make good stories, to me Deanna and Nate would definitely be the coolest.

 

[TontoK]

Why is that a better story than Deanna and Nate? Deanna and Nate teamed up in July 2016 and Ashley and Tim teamed up in May 2016. So both partnerships are just over a year old. Tim took two years off after his last partnership ended to skate on cruise ships. Deanna retired in 2001, came back 15 years later having never done pairs before. Though both would make good stories, to me Deanna and Nate would definitely be the coolest.

Good point, but I'm playing favorites. I just really like Cain/LeDuc's lines and classic style. I think they're a beautiful pair.

Deanna and Nate seem more "razmatazz" but I also like that.

Personal preference: I like C/L better. But it had to go to a tiebreak.

 

[Seren]

It's funny, I haven't paid this much attention to pairs in a long time. I think that's probably based on the fact we have some really intriguing teams this season.

I really wish USFS had thought of putting Ashley and Timothy together sooner, they have lovely lines and I hope they stick around after this quad.

 

[Skater Boy]

Agree with LRK and gkelly that OWG spots go to the country :agree:.

An additional indication is the ISU's OWG qualification document for 2018 -- which uses the same wording both for OWG spots earned at Worlds and for OWG spots earned at the senior international (which later officially was announced as Nebelhorn).

The official language is that "qualification places" are earned -- whether via Worlds or via Nebelhorn.
Again, nothing about individual skaters.

http://static.isu.org/media/309682/isu-figure-skating-en.pdf (see p. 3)​

My read it goes to the country just like qualifying through worlds which is consistent.