2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[madison]

The problem isn't necessarily that Sasha is getting lower PCS than Alina. It's that her TES is only 17 points above Alina when she did 4 quads is kind of crazy. Granted, it would make sense if Sasha fell or had multiple smaller errors. But from what we can see, the only error was the 3-turn after the second 4T. I do think Alina should be getting the highest PCS of all the senior ladies we've seen so far this season (skating skills is the only area I can see further improvement in) based on her test skate and performance here. I think 74 is reasonable compared to the PCS of Evgenia and Lilbet with their errors in Shanghai. And I don't know if Sasha should be getting 10+ points less as I don't think she's as artistically stunted as many do. And that's only PE and IN anyways, Sasha has choreography, transitions, and skating skills. But even if that were the case, I just don't see how she isn't able to make up for the PCS difference with more than just 6 points with 4 quads. I love Alina infinitely more, but I mean she did 4 quads, no falls (and no UR?). And it's not just 4 quads, there are difficult combos, transitions, choreography, it's not an empty program with just quads. Let's say this was a competition between Sasha and Alina (or Rika, Evgenia, etc.), if she would've landed only 3 quads, she would've lost. That's what's crazy to me. What she lacks in PCS, she should more than make up with "only" 3 quads. Especially since her quads are much bigger than the top ladies' triples and she does have a full program (whether or not people enjoy the program).

Exactly my thoughts. It is shocking that a program with 4 quads is scored only 6 points more than an average tech content.
And if this Japan Open would have had short programs, Sasha would have lost overall cause Zagitova would have received hugely inflated scores in the SP.
That is not normal.
Edit. I wonder how people whill justify 7-9 points gap between clean Sasha and clean Zagitova in the short programs (PCS), given the fact that Sasha has a really good program, with everything in it, choreo, transitions, and ''not long preparations for the quads''.

 

[flanker]

Honestly I don't get why people are complaining about Alina's PCS. Yet again. Despite no one having seen the performance at all.

Going by how test skates went, I don't find 74 on PCS at all inflated. If she skated anything like she did at test skates then I dare say she would have been lowballed on that PCS. She got 74 PCS at World's last year, and she was definitely a lot more tentative there, and less expressive than she was at test skates. Cleopatra has better choreography, better transitions and is a programme she seems to be able to express better. Last year, her skating skills were her lowest scoring component – FYI, for the people who love to harp about her 'bent over' crossovers – and that comes across stronger with less crossovers and better speed across the ice as well with Cleopatra.

I mean, skating clean has always been a big component to the PCS and we saw it with her scores last season – when she was clean, her PCS went up and when she wasn't it went down. And from what I saw from accounts, she skated clean today. It looks to be the same this season. Zhenya got a 70 for a not so clean skate this weekend (with some problems with the levels on spins and steps) at Shanghai Cup, 72 at ACI where she was cleaner. 74 for a clean skate from Alina this season isn't really that out of the realm of imagination.

Sasha got 65 PCS at Nepala and had only one minor mistake on the 3Lz-Lo, quads were completely clean. She got 63 today, and she wasn't as clean (step out on the first 4S, turn out of the euler on the 4T combination I think) and so was slightly lower – only slightly. Juniors have never gotten really high PCS from the get go, which has never been something I agreed with per se, but it happens. It is unfortunate that this is the way things are, and she was underscored today, but in line with how scoring in this sport works, I don't really think it was that expected for me. I presume the set up for the quads may have also had a negative effect on her PCS today. But I do think eventually her PCS should go up to the late 60s at the very least, then cross up to the 70s with time.

You haven's seen particular people complaining about Sasha's or Anna's PCS being too low when there wasn't Alina as well. That's the answer to the Ultimate Question of life, the Universe, and figure skating

 

[Vandevska]

Honestly I don't get why people are complaining about Alina's PCS. Yet again. Despite no one having seen the performance at all.

Going by how test skates went, I don't find 74 on PCS at all inflated. If she skated anything like she did at test skates then I dare say she would have been lowballed on that PCS. She got 74 PCS at World's last year, and she was definitely a lot more tentative there, and less expressive than she was at test skates. Cleopatra has better choreography, better transitions and is a programme she seems to be able to express better. Last year, her skating skills were her lowest scoring component – FYI, for the people who love to harp about her 'bent over' crossovers – and that comes across stronger with less crossovers and better speed across the ice as well with Cleopatra.

I mean, skating clean has always been a big component to the PCS and we saw it with her scores last season – when she was clean, her PCS went up and when she wasn't it went down. And from what I saw from accounts, she skated clean today. It looks to be the same this season. Zhenya got a 70 for a not so clean skate this weekend (with some problems with the levels on spins and steps) at Shanghai Cup, 72 at ACI where she was cleaner. 74 for a clean skate from Alina this season isn't really that out of the realm of imagination.

Sasha got 65 PCS at Nepala and had only one minor mistake on the 3Lz-Lo, quads were completely clean. She got 63 today, and she wasn't as clean (step out on the first 4S, turn out of the euler on the 4T combination I think) and so was slightly lower – only slightly. Juniors have never gotten really high PCS from the get go, which has never been something I agreed with per se, but it happens. It is unfortunate that this is the way things are, and she was underscored today, but in line with how scoring in this sport works, I don't really think it was that expected for me. I presume the set up for the quads may have also had a negative effect on her PCS today. But I do think eventually her PCS should go up to the late 60s at the very least, then cross up to the 70s with time.

I agree with your point, and yet I don't understand how it's not ok to compare Sasha and Alina when you too are comparing Evgenia and Alina. I get that it's to say that Alina's score is reasonable (which it is, on par to how she was scored last season), but it's a bit ironic to bring another skater in this.

On another note, I thought Sasha would've had around like 66-67 PCS, but then that's what Rika was scored.

 

[madison]

You haven's seen particular people complaining about Sasha's or Anna's PCS being too low when there wasn't Alina as well. That's the answer to the Ultimate Question of life, the Universe, and figure skating

yes, because I personally want to see the win of the skaters who really deserve, not those who receive reputation scores. I also want to see the risk rewarded (including the risk of the health) cause this is how figure skating is progressing. Otherwise everyone will do at most 3lz3lo and be very ''artistic''.

 

[flanker]

Ladies are starting, what about watching them first.

 

[starla16]

Ladies now starting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioG0MKiN9mw&app=desktop

 

[nussnacker]

You haven's seen particular people complaining about Sasha's or Anna's PCS being too low when there wasn't Alina as well. That's the answer to the Ultimate Question of life, the Universe, and figure skating

It's entertaining and enjoyable to see some particular people so "offended" by the last 2 events. Ahhh.. I'm going to enjoy it even more this whole season, the anticipation of gran prix events is even higher now

 

[flanker]

yes, because I personally want to see the win of the skaters who really deserve, not those who receive reputation scores. I also want to see the risk rewarded cause this is how figure skating is progressing. Otherwise everyone will do at most 3lz3lo and be very ''artistic''.

C'mon, fair scoring is the very last thing you care of. You really think I'm so naive?

 

[monochrom3]

I agree with your point, and yet I don't understand how it's not ok to compare Sasha and Alina when you too are comparing Evgenia and Alina. I get that it's to say that Alina's score is reasonable (which it is, on par to how she was scored last season), but it's a bit ironic to bring another skater in this.

On another note, I thought Sasha would've had around like 66-67 PCS, but then that's what Rika was scored.

I think you might have misunderstood my point. It wasn't really to make a comparison between Evgenia and Alina's scores, more to illustrate the point that programs which are clean are scored higher, e.g. ACI 72 and Shanghai 70. Alina got around 70 at euros' disaster skate last season and 74 at worlds when clean. Evgenia scoring higher in PCS with a cleaner program to me shows that they're carrying that same 'principle' of cleaner skates = better PCS into the new season. So similarly, Trusova who is more clean vs less clean will have that PCS difference.

That being said, I don't think you can really look at Alina/Evgenia and Trusova in the same scoring field for PCS, not because of their skills, but because of the way judges seem to feel that PCS isn't quite merited for juniors just starting out and have to be 'earned'. It's not great at all, and I think its unfair in all honesty, but that's how scoring has been and will be. So at least to me I don't particularly feel surprised. Disappointment? Probably. But not shocked as some posters seem to be. I haven't seen the program but given how Trusova usually skates 65-67 PCS should be within reach for her – but of course the set up for the quads may have affected that impression today in particular. Will have to see when the program airs of course.

 

[colormyworld240]

Exactly my thoughts. It is shocking that a program with 4 quads is scored only 6 points more than an average tech content.
And if this Japan Open would have had short programs, Sasha would have lost overall cause Zagitova would have received hugely inflated scores in the SP.
That is not normal.
Edit. I wonder how people whill justify 7-9 points gap between clean Sasha and clean Zagitova in the short programs (PCS), given the fact that Sasha has a really good program, with everything in it, choreo, transitions, and ''not long preparations for the quads''.

We do not have the same thoughts. I don't know how I can make that more clear. The SP is where Alina deserves the outscore Sasha by a large margin as they have the same tech but Alina has the better performance, interpretation, choreography, spins, etc.

Not that any of that matters, as I don't have a personal vendetta against her.

 

[flanker]

It's entertaining and enjoyable to see some particular people so "offended" by the last 2 events. Ahhh.. I'm going to enjoy it even more this whole season, the anticipation of gran prix events is even higher now

It's just always surprising how deep personal enmity can go.

 

[madison]

C'mon, fair scoring is the very last thing you care of. You really think I'm so naive?

Of course i care about fair judging. How can you pretend to know what I think and care for?
In 2017, when Zagitova was in her first senior year i wrote in the same lines about her scoring and Medevedeva's. At that moment it was clear that Zagitova was the stronger skater as Sasha is now.

 

[madison]

We do not have the same thoughts. I don't know how I can make that more clear. The SP is where Alina deserves the outscore Sasha by a large margin as they have the same tech but Alina has the better performance, interpretation, choreography, spins, etc.

Not that any of that matters, as I don't have a personal vendetta against her.

I have to disagree. Sasha should be scored similar to Zagitova in the short program, as the program is really good choreographed, she has better skating skills, and her performance matches perfectly the music.
So yes, in the short, Sasha and Zagitova similar scores, in the free program, Sasha bigger scores.

 

[Edwin]

Happy Sasha

Up to the 100 in TES, you go girl, set this record and it will be forever yours (very most likely) !!

 

[nussnacker]

I have to disagree. Sasha should be scored similar to Zagitova in the short program, as the program is really good choreographed, she has better skills, and her performance matches perfectly the music.
So yes, in the short, Sasha and Zagitova similar scores, in the free program, Sasha bigger scores.

True! Let's hope they give 80-82 in the short to Sasha on Skate Canada and Rostelecom, and 170 in the free, and that no reputation scoring will go in her way :agree:
And even if it does, she's still going to win anyways :yay:

 

[flanker]

Sahsa's skate had such impact that stream broke again

 

[flanker]

Of course i care about fair judging. How can you pretend to know what I think and care for?
In 2017, when Zagitova was in her first senior year i wrote in the same lines about her scoring and Medevedeva's. At that moment it was clear that Zagitova was the stronger skater as Sasha is now.

You only came to complain about Sasha's score when she is in the same competition with Alina (they are in the same team BTW, which you obviously don't follow). You made tons of defaming comments about Alina's personality even in her FF (and outside of GS of course) during last two seasons, you lack even the least amount of objectivity when comparing scores for two skates you haven't even seen yet. And that's just brief list.

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Seeing Sasha's skate now, I'm stating that her PCS is low yet much more understandable than at Nepela.

 

[Vandevska]

Well after watching it, as @colormyworld said it's the TES that's the problem, not the PCS. What a big freaking joke.

 

[madison]

You only came to complain about Sasha's score when she is in the same competition with Alina (they are in the same team BTW, which you obviously .

Yes, i dont like some aspects of Alina's behaviour, that it is not a secret, but this doesnt have anything to do with the actual skating the skaters show.
Edit
So now after seeing the skaters, I can say that Rika deserved the higher PCS out of all. lol

 

[flanker]

Yes, i dont like some aspects of Alina's behaviour, that it is not a secret, but this doesnt have anything to do with the actual skating the skaters show.

I rest my case, your honour.

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So, if we complain about PCS, than I say that Alina's could be somewhere near 80 very easily.