2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Why did Anna get her highest PCS ever with a fall and an under rotation? Her performance was very flawed. Why did Sasha receive her lowest PCS ever? Why was she lowballed at this event?

In my opinion, Anna has been underscored, Sasha has been overscored - when they all skated together it was clear to the judges how to separate them.

What do you think?

 

[SkateSkates]

Why did Anna get her highest PCS ever with a fall and an under rotation? Her performance was very flawed. Why did Sasha receive her lowest PCS ever? Why was she lowballed at this event?

Anna’s fall was disruptive but the UR was not - the landing lost a little speed but it should not be considered a major error in this case. The huge 2S pop and 4T fall were both disruptive in Sasha’s program. Also, skating after Sasha likely benefitted Anna in both the SP and LP. Her improvements in PCS and superiority in all categories besides SS was clear, at least to me, and it seems like the judges thought this too.

 

[Jontor]

That’s nonsense. If these judges need the best skaters to all skate together to know how to “properly” score them, then they are incompetent and should find a new profession. Scoring should be consistent, period.

But that’s not the reason. You will see more inconsistency at later events, I promise you. PCS can be abused by judges to prop up certain skaters and limit others.

Well, as I said above, PCS I fear is a very very reputational game. And the judges are buying it...unfortunately.

I think the trends we saw here at GPF will continue. Maybe not at RusNats, but later at Europeans and Worlds...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

But shouldn’t PCS go up or down depending on the performance? If someone makes multiple mistakes it would make sense that their PCS suffers. And if they skate great at their next event it should rise. Also, who you skate after and how the event is going can impact the judges a little bit - if everyone bombs and you skate clean it will leave a stronger impression. This likely won’t affect the scores massively, maybe just an 8.5 instead of an 8.25. I wouldn’t necessarily call it scoring inconsistencies as the girls PCS ranges haven’t really been that large on the Grand Prix this season:

Anna:
SP: 31.69 (Stsq fall), 33.43, 34.55
LP: 67.96, 67.82, 69.13 (1 fall)

Sasha:
SP 33.44, 33.92, 32.80 (1 fall)
LP 67.42 (1 fall), 66.92 (2 falls), 65.93 (1 fall, 1 pop)

Aliona:
SP 33.57, 35.66, 35.97
LP 71.07, 72.35 (step out), 73.27

That said, we will see how they grow or stay around the same as the season progresses (if they skate clean).

Maybe on paper it would seem that way but TBH sometimes a skater can actually fall without disrupting their overall impression. In fact I think sometimes they can even make an error and then be guided by a drive to avenge their error to the point that they can actually outperform their mistake.

When they give up or are defeated by their mistake I would imagine most judges would ding their PCS but if they strike back they may actually be able to make up for it.

 

[SkateSkates]

Maybe on paper it would seem that way but TBH sometimes a skater can actually fall without disrupting their overall impression. In fact I think sometimes they can even make an error and then be guided by a drive to avenge their error to the point that they can actually outperform their mistake.

When they give up or are defeated by their mistake I would imagine most judges would ding their PCS but if they strike back they may actually be able to make up for it.

Agree. I also think an early mistake can be overcome while a late mistake leaves a worse impression. Anna’s mistake on her 2nd jumping pass was less disruptive than if she had fallen on the 2nd to last jump during the fast paced firebird part. This is all just in my opinion.

 

[Jontor]

Agree. I also think an early mistake can be overcome while a late mistake leaves a worse impression. Anna’s mistake on her 2nd jumping pass was less disruptive than if she had fallen on the 2nd to last jump during the fast paced firebird part. This is all just in my opinion.

Agree. Anna's overall performance was the best she has delivered. Her combinations were clean, her spins were better than usual, level 4 in steps etc.
That fall didn't make any impact imo.

 

[Jontor]

This is the qualifying results from Russian Cup to RusNats

1. Anastasia Tarakanova 209,04 (188,11) - didn't have a good first run, but was clean the second time
2. Ksenia Tsibinova 206,18 (203,83) - this new girl will be interesting to see, looked very solid
3. Serafima Sakhanovich 201,77 (192,42) - didn't need to be here, q already through GP
4. Anastasia Gubanova 197,09 (178,05) - had a bad first run, ok-ish second. it will be tough for Gubanova this year I fear.
5. Viktoria Vasilieva 195,73 - didn't need to be here, q already through GP
6. Elizaveta Nugumanova 195,19 (184,18) - wonderful as always, need to work on those bloody URs
7. Valeria Shulskaya 194,80 (173,13) - a pleasant surprise, was very strong the second time
8. Anna Frolova 193,61 (183,52) - her senior debut, needs to up her game a bit
9. Maria Talalaykina 186,25 (175,95) - very shaky qualifying rounds, needs to shape up

Alternates if anyone WD:

10. Anastasia Gulyakova 192,87 (170,84) - missed it due to the first weak round, first in line if anyone WD's
11. Anna Sidorova 171.66 (165,85)
12. Anastasia Gracheva 169,86 (165,14)
13. Alena Deyneko 155,99 (152,73)
14. Anastasia Kolomiets 168,16 (161,33)

 

[karina17]

Why did Anna get her highest PCS ever with a fall and an under rotation? Her performance was very flawed. Why did Sasha receive her lowest PCS ever? Why was she lowballed at this event?

Because Anna so far (prior to GPF) has met all the panels with the stingiest PCS scoring, while it has been the opposite for Sasha. PCS is always relative. Check the PCS for all the competitors at Lombardia, Skate America, and Cup of China and you'll see that it's generally lower than Nepela, Skate Canada and Rostelecom. Generally, PCS isn't very comparable across different events. It's when skaters skate at the same event that you can compare their PCS.

It's the holidays and I have way too much time on my hands, so here's an overview of how generous or stingy the judges were at each event Anna or Sasha went to. Obviously it's not 100% accurate because different skaters attended each event, but since there were 12 skaters at each event, the average PCS gives a decent approximate of how kind or harsh the judges were in PCS.


Skate America (Anna's first GP)

Highest PCS: 69.16
Average PCS: 59.52
Lowest PCS: 51.14
Anna's PCS: 67.92

Skate Canada (Sasha's first GP)

Highest PCS: 73.72
Average PCS: 62.51
Lowest PCS: 53.02
Sasha's PCS: 67.42


Cup of China (Anna's second GP)

Highest PCS: 72.36
Average PCS: 59.47
Lowest PCS: 49.75
Anna's PCS: 67.82

Rostelecom (Sasha's second GP)

Highest PCS: 74.06
Average PCS: 62.35
Lowest PCS: 56.74
Sasha's PCS: 66.92


The point is that even though Sasha's and Anna's PCS have been about even till GPF, that was because Anna has hit all the harsher panels until GPF.

Even though Sasha might beat Anna in PCS at separate events, if you look at the PCS stats from the GPs they went to, Sasha is 4-5 points above average PCS in her GP events, and 6-8 points below the highest score. Anna is 8-10 points above average PCS, and 2-5 points below the highest score. So even if Sasha might do better in the actual score, Anna does better if you factor their scores against the other competitors. So it isn't a scandal that Anna's PCS was higher than Sasha's at GPF.

 

[halulupu]

Because Anna so far (prior to GPF) has met all the panels with the stingiest PCS scoring, while it has been the opposite for Sasha. PCS is always relative. Check the PCS for all the competitors at Lombardia, Skate America, and Cup of China and you'll see that it's generally lower than Nepela, Skate Canada and Rostelecom. Generally, PCS isn't very comparable across different events. It's when skaters skate at the same event that you can compare their PCS.

It's the holidays and I have way too much time on my hands, so here's an overview of how generous or stingy the judges were at each event Anna or Sasha went to. Obviously it's not 100% accurate because different skaters attended each event, but since there were 12 skaters at each event, the average PCS gives a decent approximate of how kind or harsh the judges were in PCS.


Skate America (Anna's first GP)

Highest PCS: 69.16
Average PCS: 59.52
Lowest PCS: 51.14
Anna's PCS: 67.92

Skate Canada (Sasha's first GP)

Highest PCS: 73.72
Average PCS: 62.51
Lowest PCS: 53.02
Sasha's PCS: 67.42


Cup of China (Anna's second GP)

Highest PCS: 72.36
Average PCS: 59.47
Lowest PCS: 49.75
Anna's PCS: 67.82

Rostelecom (Sasha's second GP)

Highest PCS: 74.06
Average PCS: 62.35
Lowest PCS: 56.74
Sasha's PCS: 66.92


The point is that even though Sasha's and Anna's PCS have been about even till GPF, that was because Anna has hit all the harsher panels until GPF.

Even though Sasha might beat Anna in PCS at separate events, if you look at the PCS stats from the GPs they went to, Sasha is 4-5 points above average PCS in her GP events, and 6-8 points below the highest score. Anna is 8-10 points above average PCS, and 2-5 points below the highest score. So even if Sasha might do better in the actual score, Anna does better if you factor their scores against the other competitors. So it isn't a scandal that Anna's PCS was higher than Sasha's at GPF.

It isn't at all a scandal. When u see Anna and sasha one after another there really should be a considerable difference in PCS between them!
Everyone who is denying that must be blind or a diehard trusifan aka not objective

 

[Elaine]

I was looking at some protocols for fun and realized that Alena got more than 30 points for GOE at this GPF. (31.15 in total, if my math is correct) Impressive.

 

[Nord Stream 2]

I was looking at some protocols for fun and realized that Alena got more than 30 points for GOE at this GPF. (31.15 in total, if my math is correct) Impressive.

For comparison ...

Yuzuru got 26.06

Nathan got 46.37

 

[pororocheburashka]

Anastasia is such a popular name in Russia and other names starting with A too

 

[Giltedge]

Sofiya Moroz has strong programmes and has been acquitting herself well in domestic competitions this season.


She is leading after today's SP (29 entries).


Top ten after SP
Sofiya Moroz 68+
Arina Kshetskaya 65+
Nikol Vaitkus 65+
Polina Sviridenko
Mariya Novikova
Eva Kobzar
Ulyana Kostenko
Diana Adigezalova
Evgeniya Tumanova
Mariya Dmitrieva 54+

FS tomorrow

Forgot to mention: this is the First St Petersburg winter competition

Top Ten Placing, Championship First StPB
Nikol Vaitkus 181+ (1st in FS)
Sofiya Moroz 172+
Polina Sviridenko 167+
Mariya Dmitrieva (2nd in FS)
Ulyana Kostenko
Mariya Novikova
Evgeniya Tumanova
Eva Kobzar
Arina Kshetskaya
Valeriya Ovchinnikova (3rd in FS)

 

[LiamForeman]

Maybe on paper it would seem that way but TBH sometimes a skater can actually fall without disrupting their overall impression. In fact I think sometimes they can even make an error and then be guided by a drive to avenge their error to the point that they can actually outperform their mistake.

When they give up or are defeated by their mistake I would imagine most judges would ding their PCS but if they strike back they may actually be able to make up for it.

I tend to agree with this statement. For example, I thought Sasha Cohen's 2006 Olympic program was so powerful. She blew the first two jumping passes, everyone in the arena knew her dream was over including the judges and what did she do? She performed the hell out of the rest of the program. The final impression was for me an extremely powerful artistic skate.

 

[NaVi]

The all of Russia rating can be a little higher or lower and I'm not completely confident I'm doing the calculation right, but the 3.8 rating for Moscow points to around 5.2 million viewers for all of Russia. This is about the equivalent of 11.5-12 million viewers in the US. In the US, afternoon coverage of figure skating gets around 850k viewers, the world championships have been only getting around 1.8 million viewers, the US championships around 3 million viewers in non-Olympic years and 4.5 million on Olympic years. The last Olympic ladies free skate in the US received 15 million viewers which was down from the 20 million viewers in 2014 which was down from the 22 million viewers in 2010 whcih was down from 26 million in 2006.

https://mediascope.net/data/?FILTER_TYPE=tv

The broader ratings including 100K+ cities outside of Moscow were quite a bit higher. The ladies free skate had a 4.4 rating pointing to about 5.7 million viewers which is the ratings equivalent of 13 million viewers in the US.

Last year the ladies free skate was 48th highest rated show with a 2.6 rating but it was shown at 10am Sunday morning when the event was held in Vancouver Canada.
In 2017, the ladies free skate was the 64th highest rated show with a 2.4 rating but it was shown on Saturday afternoon when the event was held in Japan.

At nationals last year, the ladies fs had a 4.0 rating and the year before on Match TV it was a 0.6.

[edit]

The GPF ladies free skate was the 5th highest rated sport program in Russia for the year. Ahead of it was 2 hockey world cup matches, a Euro 2020 soccer/football qualifier, and the Nurmagomedov - Poirier UFC fight.

https://www.sovsport.ru/figure/articles/2:927033

 

[katymay]

So, what if.........Trusova and Shcherbakova had skated a clean free program at the GP Finals - how would the end score have changed?

Something like this:

Trusova:
Clean 4S --> +11.37 (9.7 BV with +3 GOE)
Clean 4T --> +10.12 (same as her 4T at Nepela with 0,1 bonus, no bonus on the GOE)
Total +21.49

Shcherbakova:
Clean 4F --> +9.80 (same as Trusova's 4F)
Clean 4Lz --> +6.47 (same as Trusova's 4Lz)
Total +16.27

Trusova 233.18+21.49 = 254.67
Shcherbakova 240.92+16.27=257.19

So Shcherbakova would still have won if they both skated a clean long program.

The difference is the short program where Trusova fell on her 3A. But if she had done a 2A instead with +1.0 in GOE that would have been +2.10.
then Trusova would have had a total 256.77 and it still wouldn't been enough against Shcherbakova

Conclusion:
Trusova is lacking in the other elements.
A clean Trusova with 5 quads (and no 3A in the short) can't beat a clean Shcherbakova with 3 quads.

So what do you guys think? There is of course also the factor of PCS that would have been higher for both girls if they had skated clean, but that is impossible to estimate imo.

I think this is true at this moment in time. The thing about 3A is that they are all equally good, and you never know who is going to win. Right now the "what ifs" don't matter, because there will be a 'next' competition where there might be a different result. I think even the girls see it this way. Trusova will improve her skating skills, but probably after the season is over. I remember Tim Goebel, when criticized on skating skills -saying that he wanted to get the quads first, the rest could be worked on later. Very true. As far as Anna, I've never seen her look more confident as she was at the final. She came to play. Right now she has the big beautiful quads, AND gorgeous musicality. She was beautiful and exciting. Anna's overall polish isn't quite where Aliona is (small form issues, spins etc.), but in a year? Watch out. Eventually, maybe, one will pull away from the others, but I don't think that is this year.

 

[Tutto]

I tend to agree with this statement. For example, I thought Sasha Cohen's 2006 Olympic program was so powerful. She blew the first two jumping passes, everyone in the arena knew her dream was over including the judges and what did she do? She performed the hell out of the rest of the program. The final impression was for me an extremely powerful artistic skate.[/QUOTE]

Yes, oh, yes! And yet so many people said at the time that it was easy for her to perform the rest of the program cleanly as she had nothing to lose at that point! I'd say it required an immense strength of character but I guess there is no arguing with such people who themselves probably did nothing in their life in front of the audience of millions....

 

[katymay]

OT and sort of unrelated, but does anyone else find themselves humming 3A's music-for me it seems to be every day. One day it will be Anna's music, the next day Trusova's music, and today I can't get Twilight out of my head. I've never seen any of the movies/TV shows. (Perfume, twilight, GOT)

 

[karina17]

OT and sort of unrelated, but does anyone else find themselves humming 3A's music-for me it seems to be every day. One day it will be Anna's music, the next day Trusova's music, and today I can't get Twilight out of my head. I've never seen any of the movies/TV shows. (Perfume, twilight, GOT)

Recently I found myself humming the beginning of Sasha's FS music...while my phone was blasting Supermassive Black Hole.

I really like all of the 3A's music choices this season. Very catchy.

 

[Lechat]

I think Alina can improve some things but her jump technique is nowhere near as solid as Liza's, so it's hard to see her introducing much harder jumps like Liza has. She would basically need to do quad versions of the triples she couldn't rotate last weekend.

What she needs is confidence. The free was a remake of the nationals and Europeans last year. Alina has to skate 2 clean programs. I know she can do it.