2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Tavi...]

Skaters of the world would join the queue for such a "meltdown skate" with the tech score 82+

Given that her season’s best TES is 100+ and her season’s best FS score is 166+, she clearly underperformed here. Of course she was disappointed.

 

[Scout]

Given that her season’s best TES is 100+ and her season’s best FS score is 166+, she clearly underperformed here. Of course she was disappointed.

I don't think there was any denial that she underperformed or that she shouldn't be disappointed. I think it's more the point that she's such a great athlete that even her disappointing skates and "meltdowns" get scores that are so much higher than other skater's successful programs.

 

[Jontor]

I used to be one of the people who thought that they should simplify Sasha's FS to two/three 4s cause she was never going clean and that really affects her overall impression on the judges+fans.
But now we've reached heights at which she simply cannot do that anymore, cause Anna and Aliona have upped their technical game so drastically, while having much better PCS than her.

I was really scared for her today, when she missed the first 3 jumps I feared she might end up in 4th. I hope she can produce at least one clean free this season and shut up some of the hostile critics dying to see her fail just to be able to say: "Aha! Quads suck, told you. "

It seemed that they at least had thrown out the 4S this time. That's progress. But I agree, Anna and Alena have creeped up behind her with huge content, and especially Anna with 3 very difficult quads. At this point, Sasha should concentrate on landing just 3 quads but at the same time realising that she might not win even if she lands them. She has the reputation of being the "quad girl" and was the one that pioneered quads in ladies skating. But she is also the one that showed that quads is a big risk - after all, a fall on a fully rotated quad is scored like a bad triple. Sasha has learned that the hard way.

 

[JazzUp]

She isn't and it is unrealistic to expect her to be. She's a 15 year old girl under enormous pressure.

For a 15 year old - and when she masters all of her content - she is.

 

[colormyworld240]

It seemed that they at least had thrown out the 4S this time. That's progress. But I agree, Anna and Alena have creeped up behind her with huge content, and especially Anna with 3 very difficult quads. At this point, Sasha should concentrate on landing just 3 quads but at the same time realising that she might not win even if she lands them. She has the reputation of being the "quad girl" and was the one that pioneered quads in ladies skating. But she is also the one that showed that quads is a big risk - after all, a fall on a fully rotated quad is scored like a bad triple. Sasha has learned that the hard way.

Taking the risks looks like what Sasha wants, though. And I'm sure she knows it's a big risk and she can lose if she falls. Everyone can do the math and everyone knows that. And she already experienced that when she lost at GPF this year (and juniors last year where she would have won had she done a triple instead of one of her quads - she knew this too before she skated after Alena). But she's never been one to scale back her content unless it wasn't safe like when she was sick. She might not skate clean every time, but she's trying to quads each time. I think the only thing that upsets Sasha more than not landing her quads is not trying them at all, that's a part of what makes her a great athlete. This was also the first time she underperformed like this. Even skaters with just triple programs have had meltdowns. Even the greats. And they didn't become great by taking out their triples after a particularly poor skate.

 

[Amei]

Kostornaya a 4s?
Does anybody else feel like Aliona should not try to strain her body and disrupt her consistency with quads and instead keep polishing what she has and, as bad as it sounds, just wait for Anna and Sasha to grow a bit more and become (more) inconsistent?

Only Trusova has been growing in her inconsistencies if you look at it, the question is - is the 'blame' on body changes or trying to include too many ultra-c elements too soon? I think the issue is that she's doing too many of these difficult elements - I've mentioned in the quad thread, while she has a larger repertoire of quads, if we compared her and Shcherbakova on the 2 types of quads that they both do, I think that Shcherbakova's are better. I mean look at 4S - she's not landed it any competitions (2 GP events, the GPF and Nationals), but they are still plugging that 1 in her FS

Anna if you look at her competitions the only inconsistency she has is the depth of her edge and if it gets called. However she has the benefit that the questionable edges of her jumps are on the most difficult jumps in the competition so she comes out 'okay' with edge calls if she gets called. Her 4Lz last year was pretty much 50/50 if she landed it, this year she's not fallen on it in competition and 4F she's only performed it twice she rotated it fully both times with 1 fall and 1 step out a bit.

As Kostornaia saw with both Medvedeva (fully back loaded programs) and Zagitova (quads and triple axels) - if you aren't trying to improve you are falling behind. The only thing she can control is what she puts on the ice, it's not wise to bank on someone else messing up to insure your victory. Realistically if Shcherbakova skates as she did at Nationals she should beat Kostornaia, and the GPF proved that Shcherbakova is growing in her second mark internationally and had she landed the 4F she might've won gold there.

Same goes for Anna, does everybody like the idea of her learning more quads (4F etc) ?

I think Anna needed to learn the 4F to give her another option; she was called on every lutz edge at Cup of China; if that becomes a consistent issue - she now has the option of swapping out the 4lz combo and do the 4F in combination as she gets more comfortable with that jump. Plus, in the FS, doing the 4F as long as she rotates it even if she falls like she did at the GPF she comes out better point-wise than if she did a clean 2A (the jump the 4F replaced).

Hopefully she is now focusing on the triple axel which can be done in the SP and stabilizing the 4F now and not necessarily gaining another quad

but I think every skaters goal are the Olympics, which are in 2 years. Maybe they should think more strategically

Every skater's goal is to get to the Olympics, the problem is that there a lot of Russian girls that are amazing - so on 1 hand I understand your thinking that they should be thinking strategically about the Olympics that are 2 seasons away, but on the other hand I understand a mindset of go for it all while you can because nothing is guaranteed for the following season.

 

[Scott512]

Guliakova was 7th with 196.99, Konstantinova was 13th with 180.34, Nugumanova was 14th with 174.66, Samodurova was 9th with 192.08, and Gubanova was 10th with 190.06.

OMG so sad for these ladies. Guliakova kind of shined I guess. But I'm disappointed for the others. Although I did say if Gubanova made the top 10 it would be a good competition for her. I have kind of changed my mind about that. I just hope she's done with puberty at this point. Stasya is being hit by puberty too I think even though she's over 19. That's what she says anyway. Last year she finished 4th at Russian Nationals this year 13th.

I like so many of these young ladies But it's like they are trapped getting buried by youngsters above them and soon to be a youngsters coming up behind them. There's an old saying of mine that is sports and that is life.

Thanks SFM.

 

[Russia]

I was really really happy for Anna. She should have won by more than 2 points, though! I'm really sure with international scoring she will beat Aliona easily if she lands her 3 quads. As for Sasha, I was heartbroken for her and cried with her. But she is still the queen of quads and when she lands them all like she does in practice, she is truly unstoppable. Her time will come. Anna and Sasha are so humble both on and off the ice and gracious in victory and defeat, and I was so proud of Anna for not celebrating her win while her training mates were in tears.

 

[colormyworld240]

Only Trusova has been growing in her inconsistencies if you look at it, the question is - is the 'blame' on body changes or trying to include too many ultra-c elements too soon? I think the issue is that she's doing too many of these difficult elements - I've mentioned in the quad thread, while she has a larger repertoire of quads, if we compared her and Shcherbakova on the 2 types of quads that they both do, I think that Shcherbakova's are better. I mean look at 4S - she's not landed it any competitions (2 GP events, the GPF and Nationals), but they are still plugging that 1 in her FS

Anna if you look at her competitions the only inconsistency she has is the depth of her edge and if it gets called. However she has the benefit that the questionable edges of her jumps are on the most difficult jumps in the competition so she comes out 'okay' with edge calls if she gets called. Her 4Lz last year was pretty much 50/50 if she landed it, this year she's not fallen on it in competition and 4F she's only performed it twice she rotated it fully both times with 1 fall and 1 step out a bit.

As Kostornaia saw with both Medvedeva (fully back loaded programs) and Zagitova (quads and triple axels) - if you aren't trying to improve you are falling behind. The only thing she can control is what she puts on the ice, it's not wise to bank on someone else messing up to insure your victory. Realistically if Shcherbakova skates as she did at Nationals she should beat Kostornaia, and the GPF proved that Shcherbakova is growing in her second mark internationally and had she landed the 4F she might've won gold there.




I think Anna needed to learn the 4F to give her another option; she was called on every lutz edge at Cup of China; if that becomes a consistent issue - she now has the option of swapping out the 4lz combo and do the 4F in combination as she gets more comfortable with that jump. Plus, in the FS, doing the 4F as long as she rotates it even if she falls like she did at the GPF she comes out better point-wise than if she did a clean 2A (the jump the 4F replaced).

Hopefully she is now focusing on the triple axel which can be done in the SP and stabilizing the 4F now and not necessarily gaining another quad



Every skater's goal is to get to the Olympics, the problem is that there a lot of Russian girls that are amazing - so on 1 hand I understand your thinking that they should be thinking strategically about the Olympics that are 2 seasons away, but on the other hand I understand a mindset of go for it all while you can because nothing is guaranteed for the following season.

Last season, Anna never landed a 4Lz clean in international competition. She only landed it once at nationals, then with a step-out at JWs. During her JGPs and JGPF, so many were saying she should take it out. That she didn't need it to win. She did land some in practice, though. She kept with it, and this season she's landed all her attempts, and they helped her get 2 GP golds, a GPF silver, and her second national title. Sasha has also landed her 4S many times in practice.

Not a Russian lady, but Kaetlyn Osmond never landed all her jumps in her career until she did. That won her an Olympic medal and world title. Had she taken out her trouble jump, the 3Lo, she might've never achieved the highlights of her career.

For all we know, Sasha can skate her programs clean in practice, she just can't put it together in competition yet. Let's remember, before Sasha achieved history, she also fell on her 4S the entire first season until worlds, where she became the first female skater to land 2 quads and the first to land a 4T. As long as she's doing what she wants and in a safe environment, she should stick with the layout she's comfortable with.

 

[Elucidus]

It was on the 1tv.ru live stream in the small in-screen window, don't know about YT.

Oh, this! It's really good innovation Russian TV introduced there! :agree: I wonder why it was never done before for figure skating - but watching skaters faces when they see their own jumps and mistakes - adds so much to experience. I really hope other TV stations in the world including ISU translations will adopt this practice as well

TAT again avoided at all cost to mention Tutberidze or her team by name, barely even recognising the skaters unless unavoidable. It was sort of hilarious and I really hate the way she pulls everything back to herself, prattling about her experiences, her friends.

Ted's commentary is so much better, he was even appropriately struck with awesome silence over quite a few skating moments today. So glad Channel One hired him, and by all means and known accounts, this decision and Ted's commentary were appreciated the world over and made this an unforgettable event.

Despite all my immense respect to Ted Barton - he is too nice. Being so soft for each and every skater start to getting old very fast. On other hand TAT was quite civil comparing to her usual snarky remarks in other comps. Moreover, she even made several interesting and valuable comments some times - purely from experienced coach point of view - in relation to exactly performance they just watched. It was so rare before that you can consider it new wonder of the world )) I would even say that all that antiTAT outrage in social media definitely had some effect and made her better

 

[DenissVFan]

People implying that Alena is not humble really reminds me of something... :think:

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Oh, this! It's really good innovation Russian TV introduced there! :agree: I wonder why it was never done before for figure skating - but watching skaters faces when they see their own jumps and mistakes - adds so much to experience. I really hope other TV stations in the world including ISU translations will adopt this practice as well

Japanese Nationals already did that this year.

 

[Tavi...]

I don't think there was any denial that she underperformed or that she shouldn't be disappointed. I think it's more the point that she's such a great athlete that even her disappointing skates and "meltdowns" get scores that are so much higher than other skater's successful programs.

I didn’t really want to compare Sasha to other skaters and yes she’s an amazing athlete, but you don’t get scored on great TES alone. Her FS and total scores were certainly good today, but they were nearly identical to Evgenia’s at Rostelecom (within a point), and are certainly achievable by others.

 

[colormyworld240]

If someone could please translate the press conference, or the highlights?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Anyone who thinks Sasha shouldn't have been on the podium today needs to get their brain checked. I thought she should've been fourth in the FS (behind the wonderful Kseniia Sinitsyna), but with the 16 point lead she had over Ksenia, she was going to be on the podium no matter what. The big mistake was the pop on the 4T, even with a fall, her 4F and 4Lz got the same amount of points as a 3S or 3Lo. Also can we please stop with the conspiracy theories about Zhenya. Stop doting on "what ifs" and look to the future. Zhenya withdrew. She could've gone on the podium, but she also could've gotten horribly injured and out for the rest of the season. We can't go back in time and try to prevent Zhenya's boots from breaking so why are we still saying "but if Zhenya didn't withdraw she would've been on that podium"? Who's to say that Zhenya would've skated clean? Sasha had clean practices and look what happened? Zhenya had boots that were basically dead so I wouldn't say her chances of skating clean were much higher than Sasha's. Zhenya had a wonderful skate at Rostelecom, but this is RusNats. Where the top 3 are always overscored by at least five-ten points so I have no idea why anyone would assume that domestic scores can be compared to international ones.

 

[flanker]

Given that her season’s best TES is 100+ and her season’s best FS score is 166+, she clearly underperformed here. Of course she was disappointed.

That's not what I'm disagreeing with.

 

[DenissVFan]

Can Shulskaya and Tsibinova be added to junior nationals by coaches' council? I hope they are in contention for JGP spots next season.

 

[Edwin]

If someone could please translate the press conference, or the highlights?

Nothing of real importance or what hasn't been said already. Anna is the clear leading speaker and 'brains' of the group. After consulting Olga Yermolina, none of the girls wanted to answer to the 'neutral flag' question.

There will probably be more informative interviews in the e-media and written press tomorrow and Monday.

Gleikhengauz is the leading speaker from the adults, his opinions are probably more interesting. I believe he was interviewed too, but I am too tired right now to go look for transcriptions.

 

[LiamForeman]

OMG so sad for these ladies. Guliakova kind of shined I guess. But I'm disappointed for the others. Although I did say if Gubanova made the top 10 it would be a good competition for her. I have kind of changed my mind about that. I just hope she's done with puberty at this point. Stasya is being hit by puberty too I think even though she's over 19. That's what she says anyway. Last year she finished 4th at Russian Nationals this year 13th. .

I have fallen out of love with Gubanova, sad to say. She can be an exquisite skater but today I came to the conclusion that if she wants to compete in the sport she needs to switch to another country. Far too many are just better in Russia. I didn’t understand with all of her musical abilities why she’d skate to “17 Moments of Boring”. And her jumps appear much more muscled and wonky and inelegant.

Poor Stasi, but that is her talent level. All her jumps were not high quality.

I’m thinking that this will be the moment when many girls see the writing on the wall and seriously start country shopping.

 

[Jontor]

I just realised that I won the Ladies Prediction game. Yay!

That proves that wishes might come true I always predict more with my heart than being logical.