2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[BabySloth]

So just an interesting thing Aliona moved up to 7th in ISU World Standings, Anna to 8th and Sasha to 10th.
And of course they continue to be on top of the Season's World Rankings.

 

[Jontor]

Sigh...

I wish people could just accept results without starting conspiracy theories or "wuzrobbed" outcries.

None of our beloved 3A skated their best, all three had their issues.

Anna won the FS, and deserved to but Alyona's deserved SP advantage and skating well enough in the FS earned her the gold.

She and Anna are both astonishing, as is Sasha.

They'll be lots of closely fought contests between them and I feel lucky to have the privilege of watching these amazingly talented young ladies at all.

Agree!

 

[Batsuchan]

So just an interesting thing Aliona moved up to 7th in ISU World Standings, Anna to 8th and Sasha to 10th.
And of course they continue to be on top of the Season's World Rankings.

Oh great! This means that--assuming all 3 A's go to Worlds--that they will all be in the final group as long as Kaori doesn't go to Worlds! :agree:

 

[SkatingFan9]

I know this will be incredibly unpopular, but it must be said. It is sad to see the fall of the race of one of the best skaters that this sport has given, although it was only as a junior.

Trusova's from the Japan Open is only fall after fall; and from the GPF with incredibly insignificant scores. With this level until Medvedeva would take away the 3rd place in the World Cup if they faced each other in a qualifying tournament, which would be very pathetic.

And no, this is not a problem of growth, injury or fault of the ice misfortune that this level B tournament has; Here, the only responsible is Trusova's own mentality, because she demonstrated n times to be able to land her 5 quads in her program, but now she can't land 2, she can't really combine the 4T which is her best jump, so easy like 2A or any triple. Remember that today you simply tried 3 quads, the same 3 quads last year, that is, you returned to a junior skating, and with all that ease included you fell 2 times, which never happened as a junior. In short, his skating has receded, and it will be delayed even more when he leaves Eteri.

Apparently the wishes of all the Eteri hat...s will be fulfilled, Trusova will leave Tutberidze not having the mental capacity to train with the rest of the 3A and to feel the pressure of having to win everything, great disappointment that will occur when after leaving does not win anything again, because without Tutberidze he will lose all his quads and will be one more girl in the pile with a score below 220.

The only hope he has is to recover his old cold mentality, similar to Zagitova before the 2019 World Cup, and with that weapon go for his 5 quads and win. If you don't win it will be the confirmation of your change of coach.

I really want Sasha to recover, land her 5 quads and win with total authority the World Cup with more than 180 in the FS. And that this means her recovery to really deserve to be called the queen quad and the number 1 candidate to win the 2022 Olympiad.

This is way too dramatic. Sasha is not a weakling. When she falls down, she gets back up again. She isn’t afraid of failure and is the bravest of all.

Sasha has medaled in every event she has participated in and still very much controls her own destiny whenever she skates.

If that’s the worst she can experience, she will be OK.

 

[Mishaminion]

Obviously, I acknowledged that judges miss mistakes. I'm asking for a visual because AFAIK Anna's edge has never been inside. It was different for Evgenia she has an inside edge lutz, and she was called for it in her junior days. With Anna, I don't think she's ever been given an e. And I'm open to seeing a visual where she is on the inside, but I guess you've already decided that I can't be convinced, even though I never gave any indication of that.

Why do many people see an inside edge though? Do you think everyone who questions her edges is wrong? Lying?
Lots of people do question them.

I can't provide you a visual apart from the video replays I'm sure you've already seen, and you say you don't see a problem so why would a gif make a difference?

It wouldn't, that's probably why.

I am very sure you are aware most people cannot just whip up a nice gif just because that's the only thing you deem acceptable.

You: I will accept a gif as proof.

Me: I don't know how to make one

You: see you have no proof haha

 

[Jontor]

So just an interesting thing Aliona moved up to 7th in ISU World Standings, Anna to 8th and Sasha to 10th.
And of course they are on top of the Season's World Rankings as well.

Yay!

The ISU ranking system is a bit wonky though I must say.
Smart people like Samodurova and Tuktamysheva (or is it maybe Mishin that is smart?) goes to many Challenger events and they get loads of points for just showing up,
Points at Worlds is just ridiculous. Konstantinova still has 256 points for her 19th (!!) place at Worlds 2018 and her 4th place at Junior Worlds that year,

 

[nussnacker]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7wjWGhpxWc/

What girls think about all of this

 

[Mishaminion]

Yay!

The ISU ranking system is a bit wonky though I must say.
Smart people like Samodurova and Tuktamysheva (or is it maybe Mishin that is smart?) goes to many Challenger events and they get loads of points for just showing up,
Points at Worlds is just ridiculous. Konstantinova still has 256 points for her 19th (!!) place at Worlds 2018 and her 4th place at Junior Worlds that year,

256 points for bombing her way to 19th? Yikes!!!

Edit: I feel so bad for saying that because I like Stanislava and she's had such a rough time recently, it's the system I'm annoyed with not her

 

[colormyworld240]

Why do many people see an inside edge though? Do you think everyone who questions her edges is wrong? Lying?
Lots of people do question them.

I can't provide you a visual apart from the video replays I'm sure you've already seen, and you say you don't see a problem so why would a gif make a difference?

It wouldn't, that's probably why.

I am very sure you are aware most people cannot just whip up a nice gif just because that's the only thing you deem acceptable.

You: I will accept a gif as proof.

Me: I don't know how to make one

You: see you have no proof haha

I literally just said I'm not saying your incorrect. So I'm not saying you're wrong or lying. In what world is asking you to provide a visual so that I can see what you're talking about accusing you of lying? I didn't say that if you can't whip of a gif, you have no proof; can you quote that? I'm saying if you can't provide a visual, the I am not convinced. Why do many people see an inside edge? I could just as easily say why do so many people see an outside edge? That's never going to get anywhere which is why I asked for a gif or a link. Again, not that you're incorrect, or that I think you're lying if you can't make a gif or link to one, but that I disagree and will go with what I see until I see otherwise. I'm trying to have a discussion, providing my thoughts on Anna's lutz edge, as you have provided yours. I hope that clears things up, I'm not sure how to make it more clear. Again, I'm not accusing you of anything.

 

[Vemvane]

Popping into this thread to congratulate Aliona, Anna and Sasha for sweeping the Euros podium, which is a real feat for teenagers in their debut senior season. They held up to the pressure, performed well, and simply outclassed their competition. None of them skated perfectly today, but they were all three capable of pulling themselves together in the Kiss and Cry to smile and wave for the camera, and at the end, on the podium, I thought it was a very gracious gesture by Aliona to invite the other two to join her on the top for the anthem. And, being the good sports they are, all three of them, they had fun up there, dancing a little and laughing, and then dancing again to the music during their victory lap.

I had my heart in my mouth for all of their skates today - the quads make me so nervous for Anna and Alexandra both, and when they fall, I can't help but flinch. But they have grit and courage, and they get up and they keep skating and landing their jumps as though they had never fallen. Sasha gets the most noteworthy mention, for me today, when she fell on the 4Lz, and then went straight to the other side of the rink and landed her 4T-3T, because to fall on your first element and then immediately tackle a very big combination takes a lot of mental steel.

Anna was beautiful as always today; her Firebird programme is a definite favourite of mine, with all the little details that she brings out, the arms that move like wings, the quick little beating strokes of her foot, that triumphant moment near the end when she hits that note with that little arabesque-like leap (if anyone would be so kind as to tell me the name of it, I would appreciate it!), and that costume change. She is fierce and exultant in this programme, and the expression she has at the end of it is just fantastic, because she knows she sells it well. To me, she definitely deserved her victory in the free skate.

Sasha left me with mixed feelings - a little sadness because I had so hoped she would skate clean, but also happiness at seeing her three quad programme again, which allows her more time for the choreography and shows just how much she has improved in her interpretation. I was also relieved that they left the Biellmann out, because she always seems to have a tough time with getting her leg over her head, and after the moment in the SP where I thought she wasn't going to manage, leaving it out was probably smart. She's looking a little leggy right now, so I imagine she's done a bit of growing, and has to readjust a bit physically. I would so like to see her place higher than third in her next international outing, though. It would be a good confidence boost, I think, after the knocks she's taken this season.

As for Aliona, I thought we might finally get a clean skate from one of the girls, and then that last lutz just got away from her. On the other hand, she landed her eyes on fire combination perfectly on the beat, which is such a thrill when it happens. She was definitely not happy at the end of her skate, and she looked very glum when she came off the ice, but when she saw that she had won, she lit up. She is certainly having an excellent senior debut season, with the GP Final and now the European Champion title, and it seems to be all because she finally got her 3A back.

One last little thought, or rather, a significant ramble, a bit tangential to Euros, is that I am glad these three girls have each other as competitors, because it means that they are having to deal not just with the pressures of success, but also with disappointment when they don't place first. Being super successful and always winning may be fun, but it doesn't tend to build resilience in the same way that the losses do. The current status quo, with the three of them being in a class of their own, won't last forever, but while it does, I anticipate a good deal of title swapping, which is exciting for the sport and spectators - and also heart wrenching at the same time, because I just want them all to win, so that they are all smiling. Anna having to dry her eyes on the podium today, Aliona and Sasha's tears at Russian Nationals - it makes me sad to see them upset. But I guess it's also what is bound to happen with the three of them as competitive with each other as they are, and at least today they were cheerful and dancing at the end of the medal ceremony. Resilience, grace, and fortitude: rare qualities, but ones these three young girls possess already.

 

[Amei]

I am always amused but such naive hopes of "would be" scenarios. No, she wouldn't win in any case. If she was more cleaner - they would invent more calls for her. The results were rigged from the start. Proof? Easy. Just look at Kostornaia's failed lutz (which was even repeated in slo-mo). It has as obvious UR (if not downgrade by Shin Amano's standarts) as it can get. They ALWAYS check such jumps for URs - ALWAYS. Tech caller just can't miss it - unless it was decided to ignore DELIBERATELY. And what we have? Clean protocol for her. Questions?
I have a feeling that ISU have some strong anti-ladies quads lobby among its officials - and until they invent something against them in congress (and believe me - they will) - they chose to fight them with other means. How Anna was judged througthout the whole season -tells the tale. Whether the lady skater is artistic or not - it doesn't matter for them. This old myth about quadsters always being jumping robots without ounce of artistry is rebutted by Anna's PCS scores by the judges themselves. No, they just realized that other countries except Russia is going to have huge troubles in learning quads in future as they just lack enough level of ice time, training schools, coaches on a system level - and most importantly - working system of kids athletes upbringing (and quads should be taught as early as can for ladies). Therefore, hiding behind concerns about artistry and health they will do anything to slow down or revert the progress as possible. You can ask why they don't treat the same way Sasha? Because she isn't a threat for their "artistry" idol - she can't prove a point that lady skater with quads can be artistic at the same time. Anna can.

Fine then I correct my initial post responding to someone that said she was going to turn into a jumping bean.

If Anna doesn't fall on any of her jumps it will be extremely hard for her to be scored in a way that prevents her from winning when going up against a skater whose most difficult jump is the triple axel that can be done in the SP that gives her a substantial lead going into the FS. Anna's double axel has been improving all season and there have been clips of her working on the triple axel, hopefully at Worlds or next season it's competition ready and then Kostornaia has very little, if any, advantage over her. Reiterate from my original post - if she gets competition ready triple axel then I wonder it they take her down to a 2 quad program.

 

[Fluture]

So, I promised an analysis and here it is. But let it be said that, browsing quickly through the posts so far on my way to the hotel, it seems like my opinion will differ from the general consensus here.

First of all: I‘m a bit sad. Like, I know my favorite won but more than that I actually wanted all three of them to have clean skates and be happy. This didn‘t happen so it‘s a bit bittersweet. Honestly, I sat in the arena today and I was rooting SO HARD for all of them. I had my fingers crossed and would have been happy for any of them. I have to say I’m gutted for Sasha. I think you all know that I’m not a fan of her skating but I am of her personality. She would have deserved this so much. Hopefully she’ll get Worlds!!

Now, something more critical. It took me a while for this post because I’ve been rewatching the programs on video to judge when I’m not an emotional wreck.

Aliona: She deserved the victory today. Yes, she did. Even with the fall. She had a lead from the SP and even if her performance today was very controlled and concentrated on her technical elements, she was still the superior skater overall. To explain this, I’ll have to talk about Anna as well, so here we go:

Anna: She was my favorite today. I love Aliona but Anna‘s program was just lovely and she didn‘t seem too focused on the technical elements even when things went wrong on the second lutz. I was surprised by her fall, actually, because she’s just seemed totally calm and in control throughout this entire competition. So, yes. I’m falling more and more in love with her. She‘s charming. I do wish I hadn‘t seen the program as often before, though, because I guess the dress change works better when you don’t expect it. The crowd sure loved it.

Now technically, though, there were some issues and I saw them even with the naked eye. She didn’t jump the 4Lz nor the 4F at my side of the rink but the 4Lz fall especially looked off (compared to, for example, Sasha‘s 4Lz which was a fall but clearly rotated) and I also judged by the replay. The 4Lz did indeed look << to me, the way her ankle twists is scary to watch. The 4F was also clearly lacking rotation. However, even if we make the argument that the 4Lz was only under and not a downgrade, there still stands the issue with her edges. I know Aliona doesn‘t have the deepest outside edge but like I said, in the SP it looked fine. I can‘t judge the one in the FS because it was again on the other side but the point is: She jumps TWO lutzes across two programs. Anna jumps 5 with clear edge issues. She didn’t have a single one called, despite them being very obviously flat and not outside. If we combine that, then we find that her score should have been lowered even if the 4Lz was only under. She jumped the 3Lz+3Lo right in front of my eyes and the 3Lo unfortunately wasn‘t as beautifully rotated as in the SP, it was very clearly eeked out. The Salchow was borderline as well but I won’t judge too clearly here because it was on the other side of the rink.

My point is, though, as much as I loved Anna today (like I said, fave performance), her jumps looked sort of muscled (other than the first two quads and BEAUTIFUL 2A - 3A soon?) and the calls are stricter than I would have expected but fair.

Sasha... Truth be told, my heart broke today. I wanted her to win any medal other than bronze. She would have deserved it so much. I couldn‘t believe it when she fell twice. Alright, she had a rough training but that doesn’t mean anything for Sasha usually. Just remember Skate Canada! I really admired her today when she was the last to leave the training and kept trying the 4Lz until it finally worked out. There‘s not much to say other than that her 4Lz was fully rotated and the 4T looked painful. Her 3-3 combos were confident and beautiful, though, and right in front of my eyes. Stunning! I like the program much more with just three quads, she has much more room to breathe and better interpretation. Sadly, the falls took away from that a bit. Also, I felt she was really giving it her all in the step sequence, she had more ice coverage than in the practice! And level four, good for her!

I have to say, though, that overall step sequences from all three girls looked sort of off today. Totally concentrated on the middle of the rink and not much ice coverage at all. I thought it was their fault but maybe they’re choreographed this way? It‘s a bit weird tbh.

That‘s all for now. I know it‘s a lot of rambling but I did my best.

On another note: I liked the medal ceremony. The girls looked happier and it was such a gracious and lovely moment when Aliona asked the other two to stand on top of the podium with her for the national anthem. And how Anna and her danced later on. So adorable! I fell in love with all of them at that moment again. Overall, watching them live made me appreciate all of them more for their incredible tenacity and strength. I sure have my favorite and that‘s not going to change but they all deserve it and I want them all to be happy. That‘s it.

 

[Mishaminion]

I literally just said I'm not saying your incorrect. So I'm not saying you're wrong or lying. In what world is asking you to provide a visual so that I can see what you're talking about accusing you of lying? I didn't say that if you can't whip of a gif, you have no proof; can you quote that? I'm saying if you can't provide a visual, the I am not convinced. Again, not that you're incorrect, or that I think you're lying, but that I disagree and will go with what I see until I see otherwise. I'm trying to have a discussion, providing my thoughts on Anna's lutz edge, as you have provided yours. I hope that clears things up, I'm not sure how to make it more clear. Again, I'm not accusing you of anything.

Maybe someone else has the ability to make you a gif but I have been honest and told you i do not have the ability to do that. More than once.
So it kind of feels like you're deliberately demanding proof that you know from my admittance that I can't personally provide you with.

 

[silveruskate]

I literally just said I'm not saying your incorrect. So I'm not saying you're wrong or lying. In what world is asking you to provide a visual so that I can see what you're talking about accusing you of lying? I didn't say that if you can't whip of a gif, you have no proof; can you quote that? I'm saying if you can't provide a visual, the I am not convinced. Again, not that you're incorrect, or that I think you're lying, but that I disagree and will go with what I see until I see otherwise. I'm trying to have a discussion, providing my thoughts on Anna's lutz edge, as you have provided yours. I hope that clears things up, I'm not sure how to make it more clear. Again, I'm not accusing you of anything.

I understand this but the reason it doesn't make sense is because everyone has the same visuals and you yourself said you've slowed it down and seen it at 0.25x. The video posted on this website will not change the video. You've already seen it. And anyone that wants to see it can also see it using the same method.

 

[Jontor]

Why do many people see an inside edge though? Do you think everyone who questions her edges is wrong? Lying?
Lots of people do question them.

I can't provide you a visual apart from the video replays I'm sure you've already seen, and you say you don't see a problem so why would a gif make a difference?

It wouldn't, that's probably why.

I am very sure you are aware most people cannot just whip up a nice gif just because that's the only thing you deem acceptable.

You: I will accept a gif as proof.

Me: I don't know how to make one

You: see you have no proof haha

But Misha

Can you honestly say that you know 100% how to judge a Lutz edge?
Can you honestly say that judges are ignoring edge calls when they in fact are stricter now? (Zhenya)
Can you honestly say that the strict Amano judge deliberately is calling Anna's questionable URs but not her Lutzes?

I think your argument that "a lot of people think" is not enough. Do you know that these "a lot of people" know how to judge Lutzes?

 

[silveruskate]

But Misha

Can you honestly say that you know 100% how to judge a Lutz edge?
Can you honestly say that judges are ignoring edge calls when they in fact are stricter now? (Zhenya)
Can you honestly say that the strict Amano judge deliberately is calling Anna's questionable URs but not her Lutzes?

I think your argument that "a lot of people think" is not enough. Do you know that these "a lot of people" know how to judge Lutzes?

Either you think the judges are perfect and accept this result, or you don't and then there can be forensic analysis for all skaters where people will make up their own mind. In this argument you made no one should question UR calls either.

 

[Elaine]

I have a gif of Anna's lutz from her SP on my phone but have no idea how to uplaod it here.

Though I think the slowmo replay on video will do quite enough, so providing a gif will change no one's opinion.

My opinion is, it was no way an "e" lutz but ! would have been justified.

 

[colormyworld240]

Maybe someone else has the ability to make you a gif but I have been honest and told you i do not have the ability to do that. More than once.
So it kind of feels like you're deliberately demanding proof that you know from my admittance that I can't personally provide you with.

And I have been honest and told you what I see. More than once, So it kind of feels like you're deliberately demanding that I admit Anna has a flutz when I personally can't see it in the live stream. All the while telling me "I've made up my mind so I can't be convinced otherwise" even when I clearly said the judges can be wrong too.

 

[Mishaminion]

Fine then I correct my initial post responding to someone that said she was going to turn into a jumping bean.

If Anna doesn't fall on any of her jumps it will be extremely hard for her to be scored in a way that prevents her from winning when going up against a skater whose most difficult jump is the triple axel that can be done in the SP that gives her a substantial lead going into the FS. Anna's double axel has been improving all season and there have been clips of her working on the triple axel, hopefully at Worlds or next season it's competition ready and then Kostornaia has very little, if any, advantage over her. Reiterate from my original post - if she gets competition ready triple axel then I wonder it they take her down to a 2 quad program.

If Anna can master a Triple Axel for her SP, Alyona's SP cushion (which some are ignoring saved her the gold in favour of Anna "wuzrobbed" nonsense) would vanish.
Still rumour has it Alyona has been landing a 4S...

 

[Mishaminion]

And I have been honest and told you what I see. More than once, So it kind of feels like you're deliberately demanding that I admit Anna has a flutz when I personally can't see it in the live stream. All the while telling me "I've made up my mind so I can't be convinced otherwise" even when I clearly said the judges can be wrong too.

I'm not trying to get you to admit anything. I'm saying this is obviously a very divided topic with different people seeing different things and do not think a gif would change what you say you see at all, because how is it really any different to a slow motion replay?