2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[lanceupper1114]

To be honest, I see Jojo Gomez as villain here.
The choreo IS NOT COPYRIGHTED, as she said it herself in the comments. Which means she owns nothing, and she is basically bullying Daniil and Alina.


And I say this as a fellow artist who had quite a few copyright issues before. If there is no copyright, well, you own nothing there.

LOL. “Bullying Daniil”.

 

[moriel]

Yes, because sharing some comments on Instagram, saying Alina needs to “sue“ them is a good idea.

She is not bullying Alina and Daniil. They took her choreo without asking and earned money from it and she called them out for it lol. I agree that the “DM me“ comment under Alina‘s pic wasn‘t necessary because Daniil had at this point already apologized but in no way is this bullying. We do not even know what she wants to say to Alina.

Its not "her" choreo. No copyright, remember?
And yes, she is literally bullying them by creating a public scandal. The professional approach in such situation is to FIRST contact the "offender" in private. Everything else is simple bullying.
Liking and encouraging offensive comments is bullying.

 

[Scott512]

No hope for being professional.
Professional attitude, in such situation, is to contact the supposed offender first, in private. Before posting it publically. And do not leave messages such as "chech your DM" and so on.
Just contact in private and try to solve.


As a side note, classy fans being classy.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...2075167794/Screenshot_2019-06-23-01-48-32.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581350351903653909/592130503910490113/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581350351903653909/592110903613325322/IMG_20190623_005440.jpg

If i was Alina, I would sue.

Who could Alina sue?

I am sure Alina is disappointed and crying over this and being dragged through the mud over something that was not her fault. Danil made the mistake admitted to it I surmise after the fact and publicly apologized to Jojo. In the old days that would be enough to put this to bed.

 

[Ziotic]

Who could Alina sue?

I am sure Alina is disappointed and crying over this and being dragged through the mud over something that was not her fault. Danil made the mistake admitted to it I surmise after the fact and publicly apologized to Jojo. In the old days that would be enough to put this to bed.

I have a hard time understanding how Danill didn’t think this would be a problem?

Was he hoping people wouldn’t notice or did he not realize he was doing something shady?

 

[lanceupper1114]

Its not "her" choreo. No copyright, remember?
And yes, she is literally bullying them by creating a public scandal. The professional approach in such situation is to FIRST contact the "offender" in private. Everything else is simple bullying.
Liking and encouraging offensive comments is bullying.

Train of thought:

It’s ok because it’s not about being professional; there’s no copyright therefore not illegal. It’s about legality therefore Jojo is wrong => it’s not about legality, it’s about being professional and conduct, and She’s behaving unprofessionally, therefore Jojo is wrong. So on and so forth in a Daniil is right, Jojo is wrong contradiction circle.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, because sharing some comments on Instagram, saying Alina needs to “sue“ them is a good idea.

She is not bullying Alina and Daniil. They took her choreo without asking and earned money from it and she called them out for it lol. I agree that the “DM me“ comment under Alina‘s pic wasn‘t necessary because Daniil had at this point already apologized but in no way is this bullying. We do not even know what she wants to say to Alina.

Who is they? Only Danil is they.

 

[LiamForeman]

Personally, I think Vasilieva actually has better chance to have two than Khromykh or Usacheva, based on their skating last year. Usacheva and Khromykh were very good, but not as completely consistent as Tutberidze’s students usually are. One mistake in the SP could even put them out of medal or at least push down to third place, if there are other strong skaters at the event. Vasilieva was quite consistent last season.

Yes, I agree. Khromykh is the weakest of the top 8. Well Tarusina is the weakest IMO but she lands everything everytime. I wasn't much a fan of Vasilieva earlier in the season, but she's improved her presentation and over the summer she could really change. I'm not wild over Sinitsina, and I have a feeling that Usacheva is going to do VERY well, she has the talent that Khromykh and Tarusina just don't have at this point. If Gubanova were to skate JGP, I'd have her as third ranked behind Valieva and Kanysheva, but why put her on JGP when she is Senior Reserve? I'm hoping Gubanova does two SeniorB's and gets her season's best scores there. Of course things will work themselves out at Test Skate. I do expect Valieva to try out her 4toe right off the bat. I also wouldn't be surprised if Kanysheva and Tarakanova attempt a quad at test skates too. So much talent....

 

[ankifeather]

If something does not break the law than it is not wrong... wow, i can't believe this logic...

Let me put it this way. Employee A worked for a month late into the night to produce a report. On the date the report is due another co-worker stole the report and presented it to the boss and got a bonus instead. In this case Employee A maybe has no legal right to sue the co-worker in court. Employee A is very angry and told everyone in the company that the report was stolen by co-worker and demand compensation from the co-worker.

Now would you honestly tell me that the co-worker is not morally wrong and Employee A should not tell everyone the reports was stolen and is the one actually being a bully? Because the situation here is pretty much this. If you were in this same situation you wouldn't be trying to defend the co-worker anymore.

Danil is clearly the one in wrong here, and I am sad that because of him not at least crediting JoJo from the beginning mean we will probably never see Bad Guy again (I don't see how they would want to continue this program now). I actually really like the choreography, its very different, but Alina is clearly not familiar with it yet and will need a couple of more shows to really perfect it. Now she won't get that opportunity and it's such a pity.

 

[Fluture]

Its not "her" choreo. No copyright, remember?
And yes, she is literally bullying them by creating a public scandal. The professional approach in such situation is to FIRST contact the "offender" in private. Everything else is simple bullying.
Liking and encouraging offensive comments is bullying.

I don‘t know about you but if someone took my work and made money of it without notifying me at all, I‘d be pretty angry. Yes, there‘s no copyright on this work and I‘d say good for Daniil and Alina because who knows what could have happened otherwise. They could have been in real trouble there.

I agree Alina shouldn‘t be hated upon but to turn this around and blame the choreographer who‘s work was taken is just too much. I know there‘s no legal issue here but what Daniil did is just bad taste. He needs to be called out for that, it‘s not bullying. Now, if Jojo goes around and spreads hateful comments about Daniil or Alina, I will agree that it could steer in this direction. So far, I have not seen ANY of such behavior at all. A simple “DM me“ can not be considered as such at all.

And her making a post about it on social media? Yeah, what else would you expect her to do? She was probably shocked and disappointed, should she just shrug it off because she has no copyright on this? It‘s still her idea, her work, the only difference is that there will be no legal actions involved. Just because there‘s no copyright on her work, doesn‘t make it right to take it and claim it as his own.

 

[sx98423]

ok i can see how some might conclude that daniil didn't do anything wrong but to suggest that jojo is somehow in the wrong here for publicly being upset is just ... i have to laugh lmao.

calling someone out when they mess up isn't bullying. even if daniil really didn't do anything wrong, jojo stating her opinion isn't bullying. being upset (rightly or wrongly) with someone isn't bullying. criticism is not bullying. and "check ur DMs" is not bullying omg seriously she is literally asking alina to check her DMs

 

[Spirals for Miles]

In the midst of all the drama, I rewatched this It's moments like this that make me smile every time :

 

[nussnacker]

I have a hard time understanding how Danill didn’t think this would be a problem?

Was he hoping people wouldn’t notice or did he not realize he was doing something shady?

Erm... I don’t know how to explain this, but this has something to do with “Russian mentality”.
If you notice, eastern people (judging from most Russian’s reactions to this on other sources) don’t see this as a big deal and I think this is a difference in perceptions of such topics.
In a lot of ways, artists and their property are seen very differently in Russia than abroad.
In US or Europe most artists will make their money through album sales, in Russia its through concerts, because no one’s going to buy something they can get for free online. And even governments can do nothing about it, it’s just how people see things, that it’s nothing serious.
I remember as a child I saw an ad about movie copying being a crime, and we all laughed because at the time only one person could buy a vhs, all others would copy, because people couldn’t afford it.

I think, Daniil as a young (and probably culturally unaware) guy thought that this is just an ex to some teenage pop song, so he thought he’d get some moves from online sources, not thinking twice that this can actually matter to anyone.

But I guess this is a big lesson learned for him, they already know they’re scrutinized more than any other team, so he’ll get some scolding from Eteri for this and probably be more careful and aware about these things in the future.

 

[moriel]

I don‘t know about you but if someone took my work and made money of it without notifying me at all, I‘d be pretty angry. Yes, there‘s no copyright on this work and I‘d say good for Daniil and Alina because who knows what could have happened otherwise. They could have been in real trouble there.

I agree Alina shouldn‘t be hated upon but to turn this around and blame the choreographer who‘s work was taken is just too much. I know there‘s no legal issue here but what Daniil did is just bad taste. He needs to be called out for that, it‘s not bullying. Now, if Jojo goes around and spreads hateful comments about Daniil or Alina, I will agree that it could steer in this direction. So far, I have not seen ANY of such behavior at all. A simple “DM me“ can not be considered as such at all.

And her making a post about it on social media? Yeah, what else would you expect her to do? She was probably shocked and disappointed, should she just shrug it off because she has no copyright on this? It‘s still her idea, her work, the only difference is that there will be no legal actions involved. Just because there‘s no copyright on her work, doesn‘t make it right to take it and claim it as his own.

Called on that publically, with all the hate against Zagitova in comments not bullying?
Did you even read the comments?

Bullying simply for keeping that up and open.

As for what expected her to do? The normal workflow in such situation is to contact the "offender" and try sorting things out.

Dislaimer: I am a digital artist in a very niche area. So while I am not a big deal, since there is a small number of people who create works in that style, it is quite common that my works get used without my permission, either for non profit or for commercial projects. In such situations, the very basic workflow is to contact the person using your work, even if you have no copyright (me, never), requesting politely to, for example, credit you, or to take it down, whatever applies. You do not start a storm of poo on social media, you simply write to the offender, no matter how angry you are. Most people and companies are fairly nice, and in such situation they will take down the work, or credit you. To be honest, I never got denied the credit whenever I asked, and I have literally 0 media leverage.

Yes, it is her work, and my guess here, based on my experience, that if she simply wrote to Daniil in private, he would credit her, and possibly even make a public apology anyways. With no scandal, and basically same results.
Btw, you have literally 0 reasons to assume that he would not change or remove the similar elements from the choreo, or would not credit her for it if requested.

Another "me-me-me": and yes, I acted as Jojo before a couple of times, and this is why i know it is unprofessional and immature.

 

[Scott512]

In the midst of all the drama, I rewatched this It's moments like this that make me smile every time :

You are so unfazed by drama it is amazing. I can see you sitting back eating popcorn and having a glass of wine wondering if we are crazy.

As for the video thanks I needed that!

 

[Scott512]

I have a hard time understanding how Danill didn’t think this would be a problem?

Was he hoping people wouldn’t notice or did he not realize he was doing something shady?

I honestly don't know. I know I don't want any of this to affect Alina who is trying to become female skater of the year for the third season in a row next season.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Yes, I agree. Khromykh is the weakest of the top 8. Well Tarusina is the weakest IMO but she lands everything everytime. I wasn't much a fan of Vasilieva earlier in the season, but she's improved her presentation and over the summer she could really change. I'm not wild over Sinitsina, and I have a feeling that Usacheva is going to do VERY well, she has the talent that Khromykh and Tarusina just don't have at this point. If Gubanova were to skate JGP, I'd have her as third ranked behind Valieva and Kanysheva, but why put her on JGP when she is Senior Reserve? I'm hoping Gubanova does two SeniorB's and gets her season's best scores there. Of course things will work themselves out at Test Skate. I do expect Valieva to try out her 4toe right off the bat. I also wouldn't be surprised if Kanysheva and Tarakanova attempt a quad at test skates too. So much talent....

I agree that Tarusina is the weakest, but in terms of jumping. But that’s just my opinion. I don’t think the judges will see things the same way I do.

I actually hope that Gubanova is not assigned to the jgp. I just don’t think she belongs there. In my mind I say, she’s been around for so long...

When are the test skates for the juniors?

 

[thatbeatingheart]

Erm... I don’t know how to explain this, but this has something to do with “Russian mentality”.
If you notice, eastern people (judging from most Russian’s reactions to this on other sources) don’t see this as a big deal and I think this is a difference in perceptions of such topics.
In a lot of ways, artists and their property are seen very differently in Russia than abroad.
In US or Europe most artists will make their money through album sales, in Russia its through concerts, because no one’s going to buy something they can get for free online. And even governments can do nothing about it, it’s just how people see things, that it’s nothing serious.
I remember as a child I saw an ad about movie copying being a crime, and we all laughed because at the time only one person could buy a vhs, all others would copy, because people couldn’t afford it.

I think, Daniil as a young (and probably culturally unaware) guy thought that this is just an ex to some teenage pop song, so he thought he’d get some moves from online sources, not thinking twice that this can actually matter to anyone.

But I guess this is a big lesson learned for him, they already know they’re scrutinized more than any other team, so he’ll get some scolding from Eteri for this and probably be more careful and aware about these things in the future.

Thanks for the insight, it obviously doesn't make the behaviour right but more comprehensible. I also have a hard time believing he decided to rip off the choreo believing noone would notice so maybe he really thought it's not a big deal. Either way it's a big lesson learned for him as you said. I don't think it will harm him in the long-term as some people assume though.

Regarding a potentional financial claim from Jojo, I don't think that this was her initial intention but after scrolling through some comments on her post I see there are a bunch of people saying she should do so and making it sound like Alina earned God knows how much money with the show. I think most of them aren't skating fans though so I hope they can resolve this quickly in private if this is what her DM is about.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Where are the mods??????

When are the junior test skates? Maybe then we’ll get leaked video and find out what music our favorites picked.

 

[Scott512]

Amazing insights from morial and nuss. It helps the average person unfamiliar with the Russian mentality understand this a little bit better. Well it does not excuse Danil for his mistake but I can better understand how he can have made such a mistake not thinking things were so black and white in his culture. I am sure he is shocked how this has mushroomed into a big controversy. In the future he must understand what happened here and not do it again.

Back to back issues for Danil. Bad Guy and now this. He seems like a great guy. But he must understand that he is being watched from all over the world because of the power of the internet.

I do Wonder if some of the furor here today about this issue with Jojo is lingering from the bad guy controversy a few weeks ago involving Danil. He has spent years as a choreographer without this happening. That can happen again and he can be controversy free in the future. But it's up to him to not let this happen again.

 

[Fluture]

Where are the mods??????

When are the junior test skates? Maybe then we’ll get leaked video and find out what music our favorites picked.

I have no exact date, unfortunately, but the JGP season starts in late August, so test skates should be before that, right?

Weren‘t there some videos last year? I‘m pretty sure the test skates were closed as well and we still got some news. I do hope that we‘ll get to know some of the choices beforehand, though. Do we know anything about the programs of Tarakanova, Tarusina, Usacheva and co. or are they all still unknown? The only thing I‘ve heard is that Kamila will keep her SP which was a very clever choice imo.