2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vandevska]

Well now I've heard it all. Aliona doesn't have a nice air position, Alina's crossovers are bad, Evgenia isn't artistic. What's next, Sasha can't do quads?

 

[Nocturne]

I watched sashas free programm and I am sorry to say for me I do not see an ounce of daenerys in this programm, zero nada. For her to portray daenerys like she wishes to do it the complete wrong songs have been used. I feel nothing like really nothing (me personally I speak only for me,)when I watch her free skate. And I absolutely love daenerys. Yes she has 3 quads and her jumps are great but for me programm is not a portrayal of daenerys stormborn targaeryen. There are so many iconic daenerys themes they could have choose from and they did not include one of those, they choose the wrong music. Yes it's a game of thrones themed free skate but it isn't a daenerys themed skate, at least not for me

I absolutely agree with you! The chosen songs make no sense for portaying Dany. Though I liked the beginning choreography of Sahsa cradling the dragons, the chosen music just doesnt let me see Dany in the rest of the program. Maybe that is different for people who didnt watch the series and only heard about a character with 3 dragons.
I still really like the idea. Just imagine what they could have done with the epic "Mhysa" song from season 3...

 

[Tolstoj]

Was she stoned or something during the whole 'interview'? Urgant probably has a reasonable command over English, she obviously none over Russian, so these 'interviews' hardly ever work out with an interpreter in between.

I am definitely too old for this kind of 'entertainment'.

Yeah it's always the same even here in Italy, these interviews are super scripted because of the language barrier.

I don't understand this attempt at a joke. And the problem was with another choreographer, not Billie.

It just seemed funny the fact she was in Moscow, i wondered if that was a coincidence or for real she visited Khrustalny while she was there.

 

[Vandevska]

It just seemed funny the fact she was in Moscow, i wondered if that was a coincidence or for real she visited Khrustalny while she was there.

She just had a concert there lol.

 

[Arbitrary]

Well now I've heard it all. Aliona doesn't have a nice air position, Alina's crossovers are bad, Evgenia isn't artistic. What's next, Sasha can't do quads?

Sasha cannot do quads. Nobody can.
The real quad with four full rotations in air is 4Ax. I didn't see one yet.

 

[Vandevska]

Sasha cannot do quads. Nobody can.
The real quad with four full rotations in air is 4Ax. I didn't see one yet.

I know this is sarcasm (I hope), but it's making me sad that after a couple of days of thinking that this year is a bit different, hate already started pouring from different sides and against different people....

 

[Tavi...]

I totally agree with Skater Boy here. I was honestly shocked at how bad Evgenia's SS are (or rather: I always was, but now I'm shocked that she still hasn't gotten better).

I have no idea where people see improvement, I guess it's just wishful thinking or based on reputation since she's with Orser now. Her crossovers are atrocious (still looking like a pecking bird), her edges are often unclear and her turns are laboured and lack flow. Just look at the jerky way she swings her free leg around to propel herself across the ice, it looks horrible. Some of her twizzles also look jerky and she's bobbing too much up and down.
I guess her speed might have improved, not sure, I've never followed her closely and it's impossible to tell from a video anyway.

I also don't see any wonderful artistry in her skating. I can definitely see that she's making an effort, I just don't feel that the execution is that convincing.

One part of her SP that stood out to me in particular, was the second half of her step sequence.
The music is very slow and peaceful, but we see her doing a fast twizzle, an illusion, some sort of a hectic exit, a few steps later a frantic outside loop followed by an equally jerky looking pivot. She doesn't capture the calmness and gentle mood of the music at all.
Part of it is the choreographer's fault of course. But she could certainly take her time to prolong the loop and pivot, make them slow and controlled instead of rushing them so much. Add a delay to the twizzle and find another spot for the illusion, if it absolutely needs to be there to check off the body moves level requirement (pretty sure she could do something else though and still get it).

We all have our likes and dislikes, but your criticism of Evgenia is pretty over the top.

Given that there were other ladies at the test skates with worse skating skills and crossovers, it’s a bit surprising, to say the least, that it’s Evgenia’s “bad” skating skills you chose to criticize, and her crossovers you chose to call “atrocious.” Are her skating skills perfect? Absolutely not. But the fact you can’t see any improvement at all - and your suggestion that it’s all down to “wishful thinking” or “Orser’s reputation” - suggests a certain lack of objectivity on your part.

Similarly, the fact that you find her “artistry” lacking, and that although you can “see that she’s making an effort” you “just don’t feel that the execution is that convincing” suggests that the problem may lie more within you than with anything she’s doing.

 

[readernick]

What does it mean? Is "posture on the crossovers" related to SS?

Yes, because if you have to lean over to gain speed you aren’t using your knees properly. Watch Aliona, Kolyada, Satoko, Carolina, Kaori and others with great SS and they use their legs/knees to effortlessly gain speed. They never lean over during crossovers. It is a good indicator of a persons basic SS although certainly not the only factor.

 

[Arbitrary]

I know this is sarcasm (I hope), but it's making me sad that after a couple of days of thinking that this year is a bit different, hate already started pouring from different sides and against different people....

Sure you're right. And what people think about skaters doesn't concern me much. More concerns about what judges think.

Skaters as any other sportspersons need to know how to abstract off in-media haters. Internet is a big thing....

 

[Orlov]

Yes, because if you have to lean over to gain speed you aren’t using your knees properly. Watch Aliona, Kolyada, Satoko, Carolina, Kaori and others with great SS and they use their legs/knees to effortlessly gain speed. They never lean over during crossovers. It is a good indicator of a persons basic SS although certainly not the only factor.

Could you give a link to the moment (right click, "copy URL at moment time" smth like that) so that I better understand what you mean? Here Alina's FP. It would be nice if you could give a similar moment with Alena’s video. I just don’t understand what you’re talking about.

 

[macy]

Could you give a link to the moment (right click, "copy URL at moment time" smth like that) so that I better understand what you mean? Here Alina's FP. It would be nice if you could give a similar moment with Alena’s video. I just don’t understand what you’re talking about.

https://youtu.be/4NUZ9es8irc?t=34

watch how Alena has no upper body movement/hunching during her crossovers. all speed and power comes from her lower body.

 

[readernick]

Could you give a link to the moment (right click, "copy URL at moment time" smth like that) so that I better understand what you mean? Here Alina's FP. It would be nice if you could give a similar moment with Alena’s video. I just don’t understand what you’re talking about.

Look at Alena’s posture at :37 or anytime she is doing crossovers. Her posture is strong and her back is not moving. Compare that to Alina’s crossovers at 1:20-1:30 and you can see the posture is not ideal and her back is pumping up and down. It helps her gain speed but it means she isn’t using her knees as much as she should.

Anyway, I don’t want to harp on this point. I think Alina has improved a lot this season, she looks happy and I actually like her programs. She holds positions in these programs. It was just in response to the other poster who was saying Med’s SS are a lot worse then all the Eteri girls. That just isn’t true. Her SS are really only worse than Alionas.

 

[micks]

What does it mean? Is "posture on the crossovers" related to SS?

Of course. Zagitova picks up speed in the pose of a speed skater.

 

[Orlov]

Look at Alena’s posture at :37 or anytime she is doing crossovers. Her posture is strong and her back is not moving. Compare that to Alina’s crossovers at 1:20-1:30 and you can see the posture is not ideal and her back is pumping up and down. It helps her gain speed but it means she isn’t using her knees as much as she should.

To be honest, I don’t know how to react. That sounds ... quite unconvincing. These "back is pumping up and down" are insignificant, and for example, doesn’t Alena commit them - "back is pumping up and down" - here? (Please, use time linking - right click, "copy the URL of the video with a time reference." after that - "cntrl+V" in comments here, it's simple)

 

[katymay]

https://youtu.be/4NUZ9es8irc?t=34

watch how Alena has no upper body movement/hunching during her crossovers. all speed and power comes from her lower body.

True. However, Alena is tiny and light, and Alina is neither tiny nor light. Last year, with Carmen, Alina always seemed to be chasing the music, and in parts the hunching was distracting. This year I hardly notice it, and see it as more of a part of her individual style. The level of Alina's conditioning leaves me awestruck-her programs are always GO GO GO and she seldom seems to fatigue even a little. Super human stamina. Just impressive to see this level of fitness and flawless execution of the jumps as well. Alina just has a different style, she is more C. Osmond then Rika or Alena.

 

[Orlov]

Of course. Zagitova picks up speed in the pose of a speed skater.

So?

 

[Orlov]

Do I understand correctly that SS comes down to the ease and effortlessness of gaining speed (in your opinion)?

 

[readernick]

To be honest, I don’t know how to react. That sounds ... quite unconvincing. These "back is pumping up and down" are insignificant, and for example, doesn’t Alena commit them - "back is pumping up and down" - here? (Please, use time linking - right click, "copy the URL of the video with a time reference." after that - "cntrl+V" in comments here, it's simple)

Honestly, I have seen your interactions with other posters and how you pretend to be looking for information but then disregard and belittle their attempts to explain things and the information they provide. I am not going to waste my time. Watch Alina and Aliona do crossovers.. in any program... the different is clear. Everyone who has answered your query says that yes posture during crossovers shows a lot about a persons SS. You are choosing to pretend that isn’t true. I am not here to belittle Alina. She looks happy this year and so well-trained as Katymay mentioned but she doesn’t have the same level of skating skills as Alena, Rika or the other skaters I mentioned. All skaters have their good points and things they need to work on. If you are truly interested in finding out more, you certainly can make comparison through any program available on YouTube. The difference is clear.

 

[readernick]

Do I understand correctly that SS comes down to the ease and effortlessness of gaining speed (in your opinion)?

It is one major factor. Not the only factor.

 

[SkateSkates]

Do I understand correctly that SS comes down to the ease and effortlessness of gaining speed (in your opinion)?

Yes, that is one of the most important component of SS. It’s about the technique of using the correct part of the blade on the ice and lower body to generate effortless speed and power. The upper body should not move, especially the arms (unless there is an intentional choreo a movement of course, but if the arms are straight out they should not move). The body should not be pitched forward as this shifts the weight too far forward onto the toe pick and makes it harder to generate speed.