2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[annajzdf]

How can you have such sweeping judgments about whether someone (or something) has improved at all if you admit you never followed him/her (or it) closely?

Her speed or lack thereof was never something that I noticed in particular or that stood out to me in the past, so I'd have to go back to some of her old stuff and compare. I only mentioned it, because some posters had remarked that they saw improvement in that department.
Plus, as I already said, judging a skater's speed on video is rather deceiving and I find it's something that's in general difficult to compare between two different videos.

Her edges, turns and technique on crossovers otoh have always been very noticeable to me. I don't need to watch every single one of her outings, when it is something that I notice in every other performance of hers that I see over the course of a season.

 

[zounger]

Yeah it doesn't bother me significantly either, it's just something she could improve if she wanted to. It's not like she needs it with her technical score and the PCS she'll most likely get (whether they're appropriate or not), but obviously I hope she'll do.

Who says she doesn't want to improve or she didn't improve. And how she doesn't need it? You may be on a bad day and fall on one or two jumps, still, you need all the other aspects of figure skating to receive a good score and win. This happened last season for example. I don't get this logic.

 

[thatbeatingheart]

Who says she doesn't want to improve or she didn't improve. And how she doesn't need it? You may be on a bad day and fall on one or two jumps, still, you need all the other aspects of figure skating to receive a good score and win. This happened last season for example. I don't get this logic.

Ugh, I said none of these things and of course she's doing her best in all other aspects additional to jumping and of course "she doesn't need it" only applies when she's mostly clean.

 

[flanker]

Just imagine what Alina achieved without fulfilling the criteria of GS SS experts. And what she would achieve with their so well meant advices...

 

[Vandevska]

Just imagine what Alina achieved without fulfilling the criteria of GS SS experts. And what she would achieve with their so well meant advices...

That's really for every skater

 

[koatcue]

Just imagine what Alina achieved without fulfilling the criteria of GS SS experts. And what she would achieve with their so well meant advices...

So many advicers! Looks like people are really worried for her, so much good-natured stuff be found here Its great, really, that even with all her deficiencies compared to *many other great Skaters* Alina manages to do so well. I will even say in spite them

 

[Tavi...]

For what it's worth, I find the praise of some posters on these boards pretty over the top too.

Meanwhile, I never said, that the other russians' skating is without flaws.

Sofia and Elizaveta don't get the high PCS that Evgenia does, though. And it's generally accepted and has already been mentioned in this thread multiple times too, that they're weak in that area, so why bother mention it again?
Contrary to this, several posters have said, that they feel Evgenia has improved her skating and only few have denied that, so it makes sense to voice another opposing viewpoint, to show that not everyone agrees with this.

Also: Really? Should I expect the same level of skating skills and compare skaters that are 4-5 years younger and starting their first senior season, to a two-time world champion with years worth of more experience, who's left their camp and changed coaches to work specifically (amongst other things of course) on her skating skills, because that's what TCC is kind of renowned for (again, amongst other things)?
And when I point out, that this exact reputation of TCC could have an effect on how people assess Evgenia's skating (that's kinda how reputation works after all), you call this a lack of objectivity on my part?



Yes, I think I made it pretty clear that this is my personal opinion, by using such phrases as "I don't feel..." or "I don't see...".

Not sure why you think the way I feel about Evgenia's artistic capabilities is 'a problem' within me. I certainly don't go around telling those who have a different opinion than me, that there's something wrong with their taste or perception (i.e. bias at play) when the topic is something as subjective as 'artistry'.

Also, it is not my job to accommodate my perception to whatever the skater or any of their fans want me to see or feel. It is the job of the performer to be effective in their portrayal and to ideally, convince as many people as possible with their performance.

You and others may object to the harsh words I used, but I'm not just spewing hatred or negativity. I did make the effort to give one specific and rather elaborate example of what's bothering me and how I believe it could be improved. Pretty sure that counts as constructive criticism.

As I said, you’re entitled to your opinion. But since you ignored a number of things she does that actually demonstrate good skating skills - for example, her SP begins with a series of well controlled back edges and loops - your opinion doesn’t come across as constructive or objective; it simply seems destructive.

I actually agree with you that it’s up to a performer to reach her audience. But a performer can only reach people who are willing to be reached.

 

[Anni234]

https://bit.ly/2m3tCBd exactly my thoughts about all this

 

[nussnacker]

https://bit.ly/2m3tCBd exactly my thoughts about all this

"she doesn't even go here!"

 

[Georgya]

I watched sashas free programm and I am sorry to say for me I do not see an ounce of daenerys in this programm, zero nada. For her to portray daenerys like she wishes to do it the complete wrong songs have been used. I feel nothing like really nothing (me personally I speak only for me,)when I watch her free skate. And I absolutely love daenerys. Yes she has 3 quads and her jumps are great but for me programm is not a portrayal of daenerys stormborn targaeryen. There are so many iconic daenerys themes they could have choose from and they did not include one of those, they choose the wrong music. Yes it's a game of thrones themed free skate but it isn't a daenerys themed skate, at least not for me

why, why some people take this portraying thing so ad litteram? I mean let's also strip Alexandra naked because that's what Dany does in the books and movie. She could be portraying an idea, an image of what Sasha and her team think Dany is about. The image of a fierce warrior, the idea of revenge, maybe a conqueror. It's her vision about Dany, not HBO's version of that character. It's so amusing to me when people don't manage to see this difference

It will be such an interesting season. I am not a huge fan of quads in general (unless they really add to the program). I am not the hugest fan of athleticism in the sport. But, I am a huge fan of Sasha's competitive mindset and willingness to go for a very risky layout. If the boys can do it, so can she. In all fairness, she will only have about a 4 point BV cushion over Rika( Rika should have a 3 point lead in BV in the short, and Sasha will have a 7 point lead in BV in the free) if Rika goes for the 4S in the free. And, Trusova (and Rika) will have to actually execute their planned content. Planned content does not win, executed content does. I expect to see a lot of falls this year because of all the girls going for harder content. I hope no-one gets hurt and everyone succeeds!

Such a gratuitous remark. What is a quad NOT adding to a program? For me a quad adds excitment, uniqueness, power, courage, takes me trough an entire range of emotions, from agony to extasy. Not to mention a quad add POINTS if you, as a skater, want to be on top of the world. For that I'm a big fan of quads

 

[annajzdf]

As I said, you’re entitled to your opinion. But since you ignored a number of things she does that actually demonstrate good skating skills - for example, her SP begins with a series of well controlled back edges and loops - your opinion doesn’t come across as constructive or objective; it simply seems destructive.

I did not 'ignore' anything. Did you expect me to come up with a complete breakdown of her programs weighing all the negatives and positives against each other?
Of course she gets some things right, she is a skater on the elite level and one of the top women after all. But I can still expect her to be better at even more things and in more instances than she's showing us, especially given her position.

And btw, I'm not impressed with someone doing what are basically plain edge drills in the beginning of their program, I'm looking for a more complex use of skating skills. For instance, doing a clean loop amidst other steps and turns during a step sequence is more challenging, since you can't take your time like that because it's one element after the other in more or less quick succession.

And I honestly don't believe that the intro to her SP shows a noteworthy skill level, but it certainly looks like it was designed to give off this impression and I was just waiting for someone to point it out.
(Not saying that holding an edge like that or doing a clean, non-scratchy BI loop is trivial or that easy, not from the perspective of a beginner or lower level skater at least, but it should be for an elite skater who's at the top of her field)

 

[fabienne1996]

why, why some people take this portraying thing so ad litteram? I mean let's also strip Alexandra naked because that's what Dany does in the books and movie. She could be portraying an idea, an image of what Sasha and her team think Dany is about. The image of a fierce warrior, the idea of revenge, maybe a conqueror. It's her vision about Dany, not HBO's version of that character. It's so amusing to me when people don't manage to see this difference




Such a gratuitous remark. What is a quad NOT adding to a program? For me a quad adds excitment, uniqueness, power, courage, takes me trough an entire range of emotions, from agony to extasy. Not to mention a quad add POINTS if you, as a skater, want to be on top of the world. For that I'm a big fan of quads

love the character daenerys( the Dany from season 1 to season 7 not whatever they did in season 8) and I find the music is absolutely the wrong music to portray daenerys at all, I do not see any part of Dany, I do not feel Sasha as Dany, I just do not feel it, I see her more as arya than anything else and the music would also go along with arya, especially the night kings song.they could have used so many amazing pieces of one of the Dany themes and they didn't, for me personally it is not a portrayal of Dany, it is my opinion, and I do not say Sasha is bad or anything but I just do not see anything of daenerys in the free program.

 

[LiamForeman]

So many advicers! Looks like people are really worried for her, so much good-natured stuff be found here Its great, really, that even with all her deficiencies compared to *many other great Skaters* Alina manages to do so well. I will even say in spite them

Well, I have been pro-Alina since 2016 and wanted her to win OGM. But, I do see that her skating would be immensely better if she figured out how to skate without the posture issue. Her posture is "fine", the Lord only knows it's better than a lot of others. But she could be exquisite if she fixed this. I'm also having issues with Shcherbakova's crossovers too. I can't figure out what I find 'off' about them, but they bother me, too. Also her free foot, whether in spirals or spins, she has a lazy foot, and if she could fix that she could get closer the ideal. I'm shocked that such a natural dancer like she is is so sloppy with her un-turned out free foot. It's distracting to me. Trusova could skate with more tension in her upper body, but I find her skating just fine. It's just she's being packaged as "Warrior Princess" and I like that she's not doing the pretty-pretty thing. The only skater I feel is realized in her skating is Kostornaia, I just can't find a fault with her skating. Of course that means she'll get left in the dust, but I could watch Kostornaia just SKATE across the ice.

 

[Jontor]

LOL.

Sure.

LOLLOLLOL:agree:

 

[el henry]

...
Such a gratuitous remark. What is a quad NOT adding to a program? For me a quad adds excitment, uniqueness, power, courage, takes me trough an entire range of emotions, from agony to extasy. Not to mention a quad add POINTS if you, as a skater, want to be on top of the world. For that I'm a big fan of quads

Perhaps I do not understand the use of the word “gratuitous”?

I do not have time to list all the programs where in my opinion a mere quad adds nothing to the program. in fact, adding a quad just to show, look I can do a quad, with no connection to a program’s theme, is, for me, quite gratuitous.

I do agree it adds points:thumbsup:

I certainly understand that some folks love quads, and that’s fine. But some of us who have been sport of figure skating for 45 plus years do not find a quad, merely for the sake of doing a quad, exciting at all.

And that’s fine too

 

[Jontor]

Well, I have been pro-Alina since 2016 and wanted her to win OGM. But, I do see that her skating would be immensely better if she figured out how to skate without the posture issue. Her posture is "fine", the Lord only knows it's better than a lot of others. But she could be exquisite if she fixed this. I'm also having issues with Shcherbakova's crossovers too. I can't figure out what I find 'off' about them, but they bother me, too. Also her free foot, whether in spirals or spins, she has a lazy foot, and if she could fix that she could get closer the ideal. I'm shocked that such a natural dancer like she is is so sloppy with her un-turned out free foot. It's distracting to me. Trusova could skate with more tension in her upper body, but I find her skating just fine. It's just she's being packaged as "Warrior Princess" and I like that she's not doing the pretty-pretty thing. The only skater I feel is realized in her skating is Kostornaia, I just can't find a fault with her skating. Of course that means she'll get left in the dust, but I could watch Kosternaia just SKATE across the ice.

Yes. Alina does have body posture issues, but still she gets the highest PCS. I don't think Daniil worries much if it doesn't show in the scores.
And double YES. Anna and her foot. It will be interesting to see what the judges will make of that this season, but I too find her "lazy foot" very distracting from otherwise excellent skating. It's indeed strange as I am certain she trains ballet a lot. She needs to point those toooeeess:hpull:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Yes. Alina does have body posture issues, but still she gets the highest PCS. I don't think Daniil worries much if it doesn't show in the scores.

Every skater I can think of, past or present, has some deficiency (or deficiencies). One or more of things like lack of extension, speed, one-foot skating, transitions, etc. can be used to criticize anyone, and yet someone has to get the highest PCS. Alina has so many great qualities that they outweigh her few weaknesses, to me.

 

[flanker]

Well, I have been pro-Alina since 2016 and wanted her to win OGM. But, I do see that her skating would be immensely better if she figured out how to skate without the posture issue. Her posture is "fine", the Lord only knows it's better than a lot of others. But she could be exquisite if she fixed this. I'm also having issues with Shcherbakova's crossovers too. I can't figure out what I find 'off' about them, but they bother me, too. Also her free foot, whether in spirals or spins, she has a lazy foot, and if she could fix that she could get closer the ideal. I'm shocked that such a natural dancer like she is is so sloppy with her un-turned out free foot. It's distracting to me. Trusova could skate with more tension in her upper body, but I find her skating just fine. It's just she's being packaged as "Warrior Princess" and I like that she's not doing the pretty-pretty thing. The only skater I feel is realized in her skating is Kostornaia, I just can't find a fault with her skating. Of course that means she'll get left in the dust, but I could watch Kosternaia just SKATE across the ice.

It's your problem that Alina is not exquisite for you, not mine, not tens of others.

Why you people, after most enjoyable skates of eight ladies that brought fun and joy to figure skating fans, tend to flood this forum with this. It wasn't even a competition, but you feel the need to demean skaters just because insignificant details that come mostly from your personal demands, not from FS judging rules and practise. It's like attacking walz dancer that he is not dancing by the standards for irish dancing (no upper body moves). And it's useless, it's tiresome, it's vexing.

Do I say that those skaters are perfect in everything or can't be criticized? No. But just think over how ludicrous are your grumpy comments after what we have seen this weekend and don't be surprised that you receive the reaction you see. They are humans, not programmed robots and if you are expecting from skaters that they will be perfect in absolutely everything (perfect jumping technique together with skating by your standards, face expressions that won't be too much or too low etc. etc.), than wait maybe some tens of years and I believe we will see machines that will suit you perfectly. But till that time you have to accept that you see imperfect humans.

 

[Finley]

Perhaps I do not understand the use of the word “gratuitous”?

I do not have time to list all the programs where in my opinion a mere quad adds nothing to the program. in fact, adding a quad just to show, look I can do a quad, with no connection to a program’s theme, is, for me, quite gratuitous.

I do agree it adds points:thumbsup:

I certainly understand that some folks love quads, and that’s fine. But some of us who have been sport of figure skating for 45 plus years do not find a quad, merely for the sake of doing a quad, exciting at all.

And that’s fine too

And gold medals. Quads = points = medals. If all of Sasha's quads are rotated and landed cleanly then we are about to see exactly what they add to a program. In a big way. We may not like it, but here we are. Like Dave said on the latest TSL video if Sasha does her thing - "Goodbye, everyone."

To her credit, Sasha isn't just skating around connecting the jumps. Her programs are interesting to me.

Disclaimer - Ice is slippery and figure skating is unpredictable. The things you think will never happen.....happen.

Some cases in point - How on earth did Rika not only not win Worlds but not even get on the podium in Saitama? That was like a done deal. I would have bet money.
How in the World did Alina not win in Milan? All she had to do was stay on her feet. It was all hers. She threw it away like a javelin. I would have bet even more money!

In more heartwarming scenarios - Liza Tuk came back! Who saw that coming? Mirai got a triple axel and made it back to the Olympics after literally being dead and buried by her own federation! She fought for that for 8 years!

Never bet on FS! And don't necessarily bet against any skater!

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Someone put the original music of Liza's SP over her SP at Test Skates:
https://twitter.com/fs_is_my_life/status/1171395680532914176?s=20
What do you guys think?