2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vandevska]

It's ridiculous to think people like Mishin or Tarasova are good old 'grandparents' of all Russian skaters, devoted strictly to the sport as a whole, not the outcomes of their own skaters and favourites.

They are powerful, influential players.

Who ever thought this?

You surprise me every time I swear

 

[icecreamandsprinkles]

Yeah, I know she's a debuting senior but putting Liza ahead of Anna on transitions is a felony.

Yes that is a joke. I don’t care if it’s her senior debut. Anna’s score for transitions should be well above Liza’s. Liza was overscored PCS imo so it makes Anna’s scoring seem worse. Maybe higher PCS for Anna and a tad lower PCS for Liza would be better.

 

[karina17]

Those 6 points are exactly from the TES....

That's the point.

 

[karina17]

so? it’s obviously wrong UR call.
by the way do u think her spin goe under 1 is correct then?
you know ...there were no other skaters who been down graded compared to their junior debut scores
when they were clean. even if they judeged corretly and she got 73 points
it also makes no sense at all.

I don't think you understand me, I'm saying Anna was robbed on TES.

 

[karina17]

Anna also has a ridiculously large discrepancy in her PCS scores. The German judge is giving her 8.75s where the Czech judge is giving her 7.00s in the same category. This big of a gap isn't happening for any of the other skaters. Nothing makes sense.

 

[nussnacker]

Anna also has a ridiculously large discrepancy in her PCS scores. The German judge is giving her 8.75s where the Czech judge is giving her 7.00s in the same category. This big of a gap isn't happening for any of the other skaters. Nothing makes sense.

The GOEs too, and not just for Anna but for everyone today had at times a very large discrepancy.

 

[Tavi...]

Does it matter whether it was deliberate or not? The point is that the panel missed it, that's all and people thought it was wrong, hence they brought it up for discussion where they wanted to.
I just don't see how that's wrong.
And we can go on and on about the marks, but I don't know if you're going to deny that there are times when controversial judging caused by deliberate inflation/deflation did take place. It just does happen sometimes, there were cases of controversial judging in every sport, hence it makes people suspect other events too, and I don't see it as conspiracy, people are suspicious for a reason.

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear - I don’t think it’s wrong for people to discuss it.

But in fact, no, I don’t think it matters if some camera angle shows or seems to show the TP got it “wrong.” They’re the final decision makers. And every single skater is judged under the same conditions and the TP is supposed to give all of them the benefit of the doubt.

Additionally, I think the system takes into account the fact that three people shown the same data or image may perceive or interpret it differently. That’s why there’s a majority rules system in place - if two people agree, that’s the call. A lot of times when I look at clips that purport to clearly show an <, I disagree. Even when it’s a skater I don’t care about personally.

As far as bias, I’m not going say it doesn’t exist. What I will say is that most of the time, there is no actual “evidence” that the TP is deliberately biased. People forget that correlation does not equal causation. From what I’ve seen, most accusations of conspiracy and bias in FS are not themselves objective because they’re made by people who think their favorite wuzrobbed or that a skater they dislike was gifted.

 

[Tolstoj]

It's ridiculous to think people like Mishin or Tarasova are good old 'grandparents' of all Russian skaters, devoted strictly to the sport as a whole, not the outcomes of their own skaters and favourites.

They are powerful, influential players.

At best they have some influence on domestic judging, or as we saw last season if it is between one skater or the other there is that council who vote and both of them are on that too.

At international competitions it's all up to the panel and you can totally see the pattern here:

- low components for the newcomers into seniors (it's not the first time we see this btw)

- GOE on jumps reward more the quality of the element, height and distance over transitions. So a 3F from You Young or a 3ltz from Elizaveta got higher GOE than Anna's 3F which had difficult transitions in and out, and the arms above head but it was a little small.

Give it time, Anna's packaging is still great, maybe a little bit of height on the jumps would help in these cases, and like i said, it's not the end of the world, a lot can change in the free skate for better or worse.

 

[sk8kirsty]

And anybody here who says zhenya is lacking in the artistic part I think watches another skater or just doesn't want to see anything that is amazing about her

I know!! Zhenya is amazing in artistry!! And technicality!!

 

[sk8kirsty]

Her jumps were pretty good and rotated, the program is not minimalistic but empty though. The costume is horrendous, Kostner looked like a million dollars in hers green overall compared to this monstrosity. :scard7:

Please could you send me a link to her programme?

 

[colormyworld240]

Anna got lower PCS than Liza and the juniors, what is happening....

 

[sk8kirsty]

I love this look of her, and the program is so beautiful. We are in for a treat artistically this season with Evgenia and Alina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crxpwiRr4R4

Wth is the piece of cloth attached to her right shoulder?? [emoji23]
I thought the programme was great, good jumps and nice height on jumps [emoji108] I think she performed well [emoji4] But the costume....

 

[nussnacker]

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear - I don’t think it’s wrong for people to discuss it.

But in fact, no, I don’t think it matters if some camera angle shows or seems to show the TP got it “wrong.” They’re the final decision makers. And every single skater is judged under the same conditions and the TP is supposed to give all of them the benefit of the doubt.

Additionally, I think the system takes into account the fact that three people shown the same data or image may perceive or interpret it differently. That’s why there’s a majority rules system in place - if two people agree, that’s the call. A lot of times when I look at clips that purport to clearly show an <, I disagree. Even when it’s a skater I don’t care about personally.

As far as bias, I’m not going say it doesn’t exist. What I will say is that most of the time, there is no actual “evidence” that the TP is deliberately biased. People forget that correlation does not equal causation. From what I’ve seen, most accusations of conspiracy and bias in FS are not themselves objective because they’re made by people who think their favorite wuzrobbed or that a skater they dislike was gifted.

They are the final decision-makers and at times they are terrible at their job. I don't need a million excuses on why they happen not to do their job properly, I'm just dissatisfied with the fact that they don't manage to do their job well.
Most accusations come from people that have their beloved skaters affected by improper judging, of course. They are on the receiving end, they are the ones that would be unhappy, others who are unaffected won't care, it makes total sense. It doesn't make their claims about bias existing illegitimate, just because of the fact that they are fans of skaters affected. They have a right to be suspicious about bias without being called 'conspirologists'. No need to make it look like everyone's the same or stereotype skating fans.

 

[Tolstoj]

Anna got lower PCS than Liza and the juniors, what is happening....

that's not true, her PCS was 2nd even above You Young, and all the other former juniors at this event, only behind Elizaveta.

Really without the underrotation the score would have been those 2-3 points higher (bv + positive GOE) which would have been enough for a second place.

 

[fabienne1996]

Why are you all surprised about Anna's scores? Yes it isn't fair and yes it may well be a lot of politicking behind the scenes, but come on did you all think that all 3 of eteris 3a would get super high scores and that they would let them take the top that easily? I already said it earlier I do think they do not want an all eteri dominated scene, so what do they do ? Take the skater that makes the most sense to underscore. And that is Anna,who doesn't connect to the programm the same way she did last year at least not at this point of time. yes she has a quad but a not so reliable from what we have seen last season. We will see if she lands it better this year, they can not really take that much points from Sasha and alena is so artistically refined they can not go and take points from her either

 

[Tolstoj]

Why are you all surprised about Anna's scores? Yes it isn't fair and yes it may well be a lot of politicking behind the scenes, but come on did you all think that all 3 of eteris 3a would get super high scores and that they would let them take the top that easily? I already said it earlier I do think they do not want an all eteri dominated scene, so what do they do ? Take the skater that makes the most sense to underscore. And that is Anna, yes she has a quad but a not so reliable from what we have seen last season. We will see if she lands it better this year, they can not really take that much points from Sasha and alena is so artistically refined they can not go and take points from her either

Idk for me it all balances out in the end, in this case.

Young and Tuktamysheva had the 3a, which would have made the difference anyway even with higher marks.

 

[mathlike]

But in fact, no, I don’t think it matters if some camera angle shows or seems to show the TP got it “wrong.” They’re the final decision makers. And every single skater is judged under the same conditions and the TP is supposed to give all of them the benefit of the doubt.

Please, watch Young You 3A's "clean" landing and Anna's 3Lz3Lo's "underrotated" landing in slowmotion, and then talk to me about same judging conditions for all skaters.

 

[colormyworld240]

that's not true, her PCS was 2nd even above You Young, and all the other former juniors at this event, only behind Elizaveta.

Really without the underrotation the score would have been those 2-3 points higher (bv + positive GOE) which would have been enough for a second place.

It's behind Liza here, the juniors at JGP, and didn't she herself get higher PCS when she was in juniors? Yeah I think she was robbed, her PE/IN are far beyond the juniors and Liza. And that TR score..

 

[Arbitrary]

Why are you all surprised about Anna's scores? Yes it isn't fair and yes it may well be a lot of politicking behind the scenes, but come on did you all think that all 3 of eteris 3a would get super high scores and that they would let them take the top that easily? I already said it earlier I do think they do not want an all eteri dominated scene, so what do they do ? Take the skater that makes the most sense to underscore. And that is Anna,who doesn't connect to the programm the same way she did last year at least not at this point of time. yes she has a quad but a not so reliable from what we have seen last season. We will see if she lands it better this year, they can not really take that much points from Sasha and alena is so artistically refined they can not go and take points from her either

Yes, it would be much more difficult task to underscore Trusova when she's clean. Even setting her PCS about 5.0-5.5 maximum may not help.

 

[Tavi...]

They are the final decision-makers and at times they are terrible at their job. I don't need a million excuses on why they happen not to do their job properly, I'm just dissatisfied with the fact that they don't manage to do their job well.
Most accusations come from people that have their beloved skaters affected by improper judging, of course. They are on the receiving end, they are the ones that would be unhappy, others who are unaffected won't care, it makes total sense. It doesn't make their claims about bias existing illegitimate, just because of the fact that they are fans of skaters affected. They have a right to be suspicious about bias without being called 'conspirologists'. No need to make it look like everyone's the same or stereotype skating fans.

You see, this is a perfect example of how two people can perceive and interpret the same information differently. I haven’t seen convincing evidence from which we can conclude that sometimes the TP are terrible at their job. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.