2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

I think you're forgetting that the judges don't take the edge into consideration when awarding GOE. They award quality of execution. It's the TP's job to call it and thus the element would get a deduction based on that call.

I don't think nussnacker said something different, the comment was about the generosity in GOEs.

"Flip is taken-off from a backward inside edge, Lutz is taken-off from backward outside edge; Technical Panel decides on the takeoff edge and indicates errors with signs “e” and “!”. In cases of serious errors (sign “e”) the base value of the jump and the GOE are
reduced, in cases of smaller errors (sign “!”) the original base value stays and the GOE is reduced."

So if someone gets ! and his final GOE is +3 that means that before the call the GOE was higher. Some people will consider that GOE fine some will consider that generous. This is not about forgetting but about what rules say and how GOEs are applied.

 

[Vandevska]

I don't think nussnacker said something different, the comment was about the generosity in GOEs.

"Flip is taken-off from a backward inside edge, Lutz is taken-off from backward outside edge; Technical Panel decides on the takeoff edge and indicates errors with signs “e” and “!”. In cases of serious errors (sign “e”) the base value of the jump and the GOE are
reduced, in cases of smaller errors (sign “!”) the original base value stays and the GOE is reduced."

So if someone gets ! and his final GOE is +3 that means that before the call the GOE was higher. Some people will consider that GOE fine some will consider that generous. This is not about forgetting but about what rules say and how GOEs are applied.

I wasn't arguing with him. I was just mentioning it. I actually went ahead and read both communications for this season.
Before I had only read this: https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/fsk-communications/21210-2253-s-p-sov-2019-20/file where at the end it says:

"1. The SOV is based on a percentage principle. Each step in GOE up/down results in increasing/decreasing the score for this element by 10% of the Base Value.
(...)
3. For elements indicated with signs "<", "e", "V", the percentage is taken not from the full Base Value, but from the reduced Base Value. (...)"

However, afterwards I opened this communication: https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...y-and-guidelines-for-marking-goe-2019-20/file and here it says:

"1. Full rotation: signs < and << indicate an error. The base values of the jumps with a sign < are listed in the SOV table. The jump with a sign << is evaluated with SOV for the same jump one revolution less.
2. Correct take-off edge in F/Lz: signs "e" and "!" indicate an error. The base values of the jumps with the sign "e" are listed in the SOV table. The sign "!" allows to keep full original base value of the jump.
If both signs < and "e" are applied for the same jump, the base values are listed in the SOV table."

But further down it also says:

"Technical Panel decides on the take-off edge and indicates errors with signs "e" and "!". In cases of serious errors (sign "e") the base value of the jump and the GOE are reduced, in cases of smaller errors (sign "!") the original base value stays and GOE is reduced."

I find this these two to be kinda contradictory, but anyway.

I wasn't trying to argue, I was continuing with the debate. I would love it if the sport was made more objective even if it is by simply installing more cameras.

 

[Vandevska]

And overall, I think it's a very good idea to read both communications to understand the rules better.

 

[zounger]

I

I wasn't trying to argue, I was continuing with the debate. I would love it if the sport was made more objective even if it is by simply installing more cameras.

Some obvious stuff are not camera problems but intentions. But generally yes technology can help, this is for another topic it has been/being discussed elsewhere.

 

[nussnacker]

And overall, I think it's a very good idea to read both communications to understand the rules better.

Well, see, the if TP marks something as ! or e or <, GOEs should be reduced by judging panel in all 3 cases, except in the first one bv is not reduced.
The judging panel might not see the mistake in real time, but once TP marked it, they always go over it and adjust goes. JP and TP are not separate entities, they work together.
So why ! still got +3 was just puzzling and seems generous. Especially if we take into account that first +3 goes have a mandatory condition (good take off) that was not fulfilled.
It’s not really important in this particular case, since the placement wouldn’t have changed, but still not something I expected to see when I read about lesser punishments coming this season.

 

[Vandevska]

Well, see, the if TP marks something as ! or e or <, GOEs should be reduced by judging panel in all 3 cases, except in the first one bv is not reduced.
The judging panel might not see the mistake in real time, but once TP marked it, they always go over it and adjust goes. JP and TP are not separate entities, they work together.
So why ! still got +3 was just puzzling and seems generous. Especially if we take into account that first +3 goes have a mandatory condition (good take off) that was not fulfilled.
It’s not really important in this particular case, since the placement wouldn’t have changed, but still not something I expected to see when I read about lesser punishments coming this season.

Yep, true. Who knows how this season will go, but probably as people have been saying it'll get more lenient going forward.

 

[DSQ]

I know I am going to get hate for this but, honestly I did not see a huge difference in PCS yesterday. Anna has more transitions, yes. But, her SS aren't the best. She was nervous, had no connection to the music and looked slow. The step sequence was plain bad on places. Star had perhaps her best performance ever, and Liza is getting the known skater boost so her PCS was a bit higher. I did not see this different scale that you did. They looked equal artistically yesterday. ( no always, but yesterday...yes)

I think Anna's long is the better program and if she shows her connection to the music and skates faster, she will get higher PCS.

With the exception of the over rotation on the 3A Liza was amazing yesterday. Her 3Lz imo is a +5 to me and she performed well, better than last year. I agree with you Starr was the best she’s ever been and imo compared to Anna had a better performance but with less difficult jumps, so the PCS in comparison was fine for me. Starr had good transitions.

I think all the scores were a little low but that is a symptom of the way judges like to rank the skaters in comparison with the last skater on the ice. Since Liza was first everyone after was lower.

Anna was awesome though and she shouldn’t be discouraged that she scored less than a former world champion who has visibly improved on last season. She still has the 4Lz and is supremely talented, it’s all to play for.

It’s a shame that Liza’s improvements have been overshadowed by disappointment in Anna’s scores. Also poor Sophia, she’ll get them next time.

 

[zounger]

^^

It's not about your post just as a reference. I don't like this logic you didn't score high but OK you have 3A or quad you will be fine. We are not 2-3 seasons ago. There are now around 10 skaters who can score in 220s and each point matters and is decisive. I don't mean the challenge series but later when more important competitions will come.

 

[esteticlove]

It's ridiculous to excuse the down-scoring of Anna from yesterday. It's obvious that was all about politicking. Her layout is pretty much the maximum without a 3A, therefore a PCS difference wouldn't have been enough for Elizaveta to "shine". Anna performed very well having in mind that this is her first senior competition. She was tentative, but so was Kamilla who just scored 73 with a wonky 3Loop. I thought that Anna's timing and speed were fine. It's outrageous to give her lower transitions than Elizaveta, what a joke?! As I already said... the battle for the 3rd spot will be between Anna S and Elizaveta, and I guess papa Mishin will do everything to push her into the Nat.Team.

 

[cell]

So I watched Medvedeva's free skate yesterday and I really don't see what everybody's talking about with regards to her Improvement in skating skills ...her skating still looks rather choppy to me...also her spins also looked rather laboured and slow

 

[Vandevska]

Ksenia has me

 

[Vandevska]

This was very exciting!

 

[fabienne1996]

So I watched Medvedeva's free skate yesterday and I really don't see what everybody's talking about with regards to her Improvement in skating skills ...her skating still looks rather choppy to me...also her spins also looked rather laboured and slow

You also forgot that she probably has a jetlag which you wouldn't think if you look at her, but remember she had test skates and right in the evening she flew to Canada again, if I got it correctly between test skate and autumn class is where only 72 hours, so I would say it's natural that she is tired at some point

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Ladies is over, so.... WOW. The Russian skaters really were magnificent here! Kamila's going to the JGPF, Ksenia has huge chances for the JGPF, Viktoria has a huge score (would've won last week!). I really hope Viktoria gets another event so she can try to qualify!

Currently listed:

Gdansk: Vasilieva, Tarakanova
Zagreb: Usacheva, Frolova
Egna: Kanysheva, Sinitsyna

 

[Happy Skates]

Ksenia has me

Same . I'm so glad she got a silver with a huge score here - that'll get her a second assignment and a nice chance for the final! And not to mention the score she got will probably hold up on the SB list for a senior GP next year! Also her costume is just gorgeous.

 

[Mawwerg]

Kamila beat Anna's and Alena's top scores.

 

[zounger]

Kamila beat Anna's and Alena's top scores.

Send her to Lombardia to take a lesson on how it's done in seniors

 

[Happy Skates]

Ladies is over, so.... WOW. The Russian skaters really were magnificent here! Kamila's going to the JGPF, Ksenia has huge chances for the JGPF, Viktoria has a huge score (would've won last week!). I really hope Viktoria gets another event so she can try to qualify!

Currently listed:

Gdansk: Vasilieva, Tarakanova
Zagreb: Usacheva, Frolova
Egna: Kanysheva, Sinitsyna

I wonder what's going on with Kanysheva :'(. If it stays like this she doesn't have a shot for the final and has only one shot to get on the SB list unless she makes the junior worlds team.

 

[Vandevska]

But omg let's talk about Vasilieva! She blew my off my chair! Definitely a nice surprise.

We saw 3 girls from 3 different coaching camps today, and it seems like all 3 are on the right track.

 

[starla16]

Kamila did look like she has improve her 3-3s especially the second reload less pause and mule kick, but Im still not in favor of her making the Olympics Team I have to admit with her 4T her chances of making the team are there.