2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[flanker]

I don't believe that's what they did, at least not deliberately. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I'm not saying say they did that for sure, that's just what impression your previous comment gave to me.

 

[Happy Skates]

Yes. They were both great today. But I was shocked when I saw Liza's score. I thought it would be closer. "She must have been downgraded" I thought. But she wasn't!! She had a -GOE on her first 3A but that was it. Comparing the tech between Liza and Anna there is a huge difference. Liza throws away points with 2 double combinations and two extra 2A's. And why doesn't she have a 3S and just one 3F? Liza needs to up her tech. Those 3A's isn't enough if Anna goes clean AND gets underscored on PCS.

Yes, a lot of the tech disparity I would say is due to Eteri's ability to strategize on base values, or rather Mishin's lack of ability to. And of course not to take away from Anna's actual ability to execute it, doing a quad and three different types of triple triples with two in the second half is beyond amazing. It just goes to show that not only is doing the super hard elements important, but how you integrate them into the program and what jump you choose to replace with it, and what other combinations you do is also important.

 

[Finley]

Am I the only one who doesn't think the judging was that unfair? I think Anna was a bit underscored in the SP but not outrageously so, I thought she was slower, wobblier and more tentative than usual, plus it was literally her very first senior competition.
Judging is not easy and I wonder if any of us could do any better, it would seem that us "armchair" judges seem to think we could but consider the pressure they themselves are under to get it "right."
Sometimes they don't and it should not and doesn't always mean it was a deliberate conspiracy.

In my personal opinion there have been two recent instances where the judging has been blatantly unfair. I disagree with the Russian judge who put Rika 10 pts behind Zhenya. What was that? You already know my opinion re: Anna's scores.

I can't argue whether it was 'a little' unfair or 'a lot' unfair. I get it. It's early in the season. The PCS have to grow. They can't give it all away now. The older seniors have earned their respect from the judges and deserve to be credited accordingly. But we are trying to have a sport here and hopefully improve on mistakes from the past, right? And here we are again - still the same.

I just know how I felt when I saw it. I thought it was unfair.

 

[Jontor]

*UPDATED* Russian Ladies in the SB list after 6 (of 30) events

2 (2) - Kamila Valieva 221.95 - JGP Chelyabinsk
3 (new) - Anna Shcherbakova 218.20 - CS Lombardia Trophy
4 (new) - Evgenia Medvedeva 217.43 - CS Autumn Classic
5 (new) - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 214.38 - CS Lombardia Trophy
7 (new) - Ksenia Sinitsyna 204.25 - JGP Chelyabinsk
9 (new) - Viktoria Vasilieva 198.79 - JGP Chelyabinsk
11 (4) - Daria Usacheva 194.40 - JGP Riga
14 (7) - Maiia Khromykh 190.73 - JGP Riga
20 (new) - Sofia Samodurova 179.65 - CS Lombardia Trophy
21 (9) - Anastasia Tarakanova 179.29 - JGP Lake Placid

---------------------

It's early days yet, but it is getting crowded in there
Last year, to be in the Top 24 in the Seasons Best List you had to score 196.34

Still to skate: Kanysheva, Frolova, Tarusina, Konstantinova, Sakhanovich, Trusova, Kostornaia, Sotskova, Zagitova
And those without GPs aka 'Gubanova's gang': Gubanova, Guliakova, Nugumanova, Talalaikina and others...

 

[Mishaminion]

Anna is a first year senior at her very first senior competition.
Liza is a former World Champion who also earned herself some pretty good medals last season. She might have won Euros and medalled at Worlds if it wasn't for pneumonia.
We all know reputation scoring is a thing, perhaps it shouldn't be but it sort of always has been. Anna sure as hell went up in the eyes of the judges with her LP, her PCS will climb and climb if she keeps this up.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Yes, a lot of the tech disparity I would say is due to Eteri's ability to strategize on base values, or rather Mishin's lack of ability to. And of course not to take away from Anna's actual ability to execute it, doing a quad and three different types of triple triples with two in the second half is beyond amazing. It just goes to show that not only is doing the super hard elements important, but how you integrate them into the program and what jump you choose to replace with it, and what other combinations you do is also important.

Mishin still operates under a 6.0 mentality, he hasn't adapted.

Plushenko go away with it because his charisma and reputation and COP was a developing baby that even the judges didn't really know. Liza got away with it because she had a special magnetism, COP was still really tweaking and she was the only lady who had that one wow element in the 3A. COP, even if its still changing, is more defined and stable today and the overall difficulty has increased so his other students who don't stand out with a special "IT" quality are struggling even when they do land the jumps correctly.

 

[Gabby30]

So I watched Medvedeva's free skate yesterday and I really don't see what everybody's talking about with regards to her Improvement in skating skills ...her skating still looks rather choppy to me...also her spins also looked rather laboured and slow

Interesting, the flaws you see she already had with Eteri. Her y spin and jumps are much better now, especially her SP looks great, more mature and as the commentators said, she doesn't rush anymore and is not frantic anymore

 

[Finley]

I don't believe that's what they did, at least not deliberately. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I swear I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this. I'm honestly asking - what was it then? Are they just making these egregious errors in judging purely by random accident? And it's just certain skater's bad luck that it happened to them?

I know judging is hard. Everyone makes mistakes and gets it wrong. There is always a margin for subjective error, but 10 pts worth? That just so happens to go against the skater who is the biggest threat to the skater of the same nationality as the error prone judge? I'm willing to give a judge the benefit of the doubt, but not that much.

Even if some of them are doing this as a hobby out of the goodness of their hearts, I still think they are vulnerable to influence and pressure. Sometimes that is all a conspiracy is.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

If last season was any indication, Liza and her team will probably have another "oh %@$!" moment and realize that they have to up her technical content if she wants to win her GP assignments. I'm surprised that her tech was so odd in the free. From what I remember ar Russian Test Skates it looked much more competitive than what she did at Lombardia.

 

[mathlike]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Champion of Russia has entered the senior competition! :yay:

 

[zounger]

Yes, a lot of the tech disparity I would say is due to Eteri's ability to strategize on base values, or rather Mishin's lack of ability to.

I don't think Mishin lack in ability to maximize points. I mean me end you we can calculate base values and layout and he cannot? The way I see it is that Liza at the moment doesn't have ready stable 3-3 combinations that can be integrated into a program. So this layouts are out of force rather than intelligence.

 

[prorussian fan]

Does anyone have the free skate protocols of the Lombardy Trophy?

 

[Alextrusova]

Does Tuk do 3salchow? Am I correct that it was absent at Lombardia?

 

[ruga]

Does anyone have the free skate protocols of the Lombardy Trophy?

http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/5020/CSITA2019_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[NAOTMAA]

I don't think Mishin lack in ability to maximize points. I mean me end you we can calculate base values and layout and he cannot? The way I see it is that Liza at the moment doesn't have ready stable 3-3 combinations that can be integrated into a program. So this layouts are out of force rather than intelligence.

I think jump layout and base values (on paper) are one thing but all his skaters lack the other stuff in the programs that gets the PCS marks and other technical areas to really rise. That's why when even they hit all the jumps their other marks still appear rather low when in comparison other skaters who hit (namely the Japanese or fellow Russian compatriots) have theirs go off like a rocket. So his skaters may maximize points, to the best they can, when it comes to jumps but they don't in everything else.

 

[Mishaminion]

I swear I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this. I'm honestly asking - what was it then? Are they just making these egregious errors in judging purely by random accident? And it's just certain skater's bad luck that it happened to them?

I know judging is hard. Everyone makes mistakes and gets it wrong. There is always a margin for subjective error, but 10 pts worth? That just so happens to go against the skater who is the biggest threat to the skater of the same nationality as the error prone judge? I'm willing to give a judge the benefit of the doubt, but not that much.

Even if some of them are doing this as a hobby out of the goodness of their hearts, I still think they are vulnerable to influence and pressure. Sometimes that is all a conspiracy is.

You are not even talking about the same competition or the same skaters, or the same judge.
I was talking about Lombardia and Anna's SP score.

I'm assuming the Russian judge who went a bit mental with the Patriotic but absurd score had their scores thrown out as the rules state they should be? Therefore they didn't really even impact the competition? Isn't that why that rule exists?

I very much think the judge in question should be pulled up and given a stern talking to for being such a blatant idiot, yes.
Still, I don't see a conspiracy as such. If several of them did the same then maybe.

 

[Gabby30]

Yes, I have watched the replay on Anna's backend triple loop at .25 speed and there is no hook on landing. The need to underscore was so urgent that it had to be spread out over deflated PCS and a bogus ur call. Anna had good speed, erect posture and fine musical expression. Almost every comment under Anna's SP video on youtube claims she was underscored many of them in English, which shows the judges lost credibility in scoring. I also thought Young You was relatively underscored but not as much as Anna.

So, some random people, who have never judged in their life, come to YT to write a biased opinion - and this now means that they are experts, that they are right and the judges are wrong, because they wrote in english... Are you serious? Everybody can say "i like this performance better, it should be scored better, unfair judging!" But it doesn't make it true. Why do fans always think they know it better? I'm afraid the judges are not the problem in this sport....

 

[skatenewbie]

I don't think Mishin lack in ability to maximize points. I mean me end you we can calculate base values and layout and he cannot? The way I see it is that Liza at the moment doesn't have ready stable 3-3 combinations that can be integrated into a program. So this layouts are out of force rather than intelligence.

Liza have 3F-3T which she did in hee short and 3Lz-3T which she landed couple times last season and also 3T-3T. That 3Lz-2A SEQ is such a bad move though

 

[Edwin]

If last season was any indication, Liza and her team will probably have another "oh %@$!" moment and realize that they have to up her technical content if she wants to win her GP assignments. I'm surprised that her tech was so odd in the free. From what I remember ar Russian Test Skates it looked much more competitive than what she did at Lombardia.

To me it looked like Tuktamysheva sort of 'gave way' to Shcherbakova, Liza didn't seem that keen on pulling out all stops in trying to cover her lack of choreo and just went with the motions of her big and usually clean jumping skills.

She is #TeamMishin's only chance at a start in the coming World Championships, much work needs to be done to get this 'top prospect state of skating' in the 6 months to come.
Relying on your own skaters' strength and quality is better than waiting for the failure of others.

Russian Nationals is going to be very, very exciting again.

 

[Mishaminion]

I don't think Mishin lack in ability to maximize points. I mean me end you we can calculate base values and layout and he cannot? The way I see it is that Liza at the moment doesn't have ready stable 3-3 combinations that can be integrated into a program. So this layouts are out of force rather than intelligence.

She does a 3-3 in the SP so I don't see any reason why she can't in the LP?