2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[readernick]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

I don’t think we have any evidence to say who will survive puberty and who won’t. Sasha is not my type of skater but she is a great jumper, competitor, and she looks strong. Greats muscles! This type of post is just looking to upset people. There are so many people on this forum who get upset about imaginary insults don’t make the situation worse, please!

 

[Good Vibes Only]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

I think that Alina and Evgenia are getting stronger and are used to their bodies now. As for Sofia and Sasha, I think that it is too early to count them out because they aren't done growing yet. No one can predict how much people are going to grow. Some people grow a lot, others don't. I feel like it isn't fair to judge skaters based on something that they can't control. You can judge skaters based on their technique or skating skills, but not their bodies. That's just my opinion and I am not going to say anymore about this topic.

 

[skatergurl7]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

I also think genetically Asians don’t have as many puberty issues and tend to be on the shorter / leaner side. Liu also being of asian descent

 

[Happy Skates]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

lol first of all, Liu and all of the Korean juniors are... juniors. Which means you have no idea how long they'll last, and there's no particular reason to think they'll last longer than the Russian girls. Secondly, Alina and Evgenia seem to be doing great this season... Alina put out two clean program's with huge jumps, how is that struggling with growth again? And Evgenia just did two clean programs at the Autumn classic. She did have some struggles after injury and adjusting her technique, but one struggle season is beyond normal. And both of them ended up on the world podium so thats better than most people's struggle seasons. Also about Russian juniors... Russia literally has Kamila Valieva, the highest scoring junior in the world. And have already qualfied two juniors to the final, and probably will end up qualifying at least three if not four. Thats more than any other country. Even though the results aren't as good as the past two years, you can't expect the same junior dominance that happened with the 3A. They are a very unique trio in their skill, consistency, and dominance at such an early age, and you can't expect the same results that they got. Just the year before they came around, there were three Russian girls at the JGPF, probably similar to this year (or worse if Vaslieva or Frolova end up qualifying). And of course with the puberty discussion you're forgetting Tuktamysheva who also got through puberty just fine. Plus, there are plenty of Americans that didn't make it through puberty (Caroline Zhang anyone?), and some Japanese as well (Marin Honda?). Koreans we can't tell yet because no one other than Yuna has had a long time in seniors. Anyways, everyone is being way too dramatic about this. The Juniors are doing just fine and so are the Seniors. If you want examples of a country who should be worried about its performance on the JGP, its Japan (although they sometimes have skaters who bloom later I guess).

 

[ec00834]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

Lol I'm sure Valieva was just SO disappointing. Most skaters struggle with puberty but Alina, Liza, and Evgenia seemed to have adjusted quite well. There are a handful of Korean, Japanese, and American skaters who haven't survived puberty too If you don't think Trusova's giant quads will make it, how are you certain Liu's heavily PR and URed quads will?

 

[Scott512]

I also think genetically Asians don’t have as many puberty issues and tend to be on the shorter / leaner side. Liu also being of asian descent

True.

 

[colormyworld240]

I also think genetically Asians don’t have as many puberty issues and tend to be on the shorter / leaner side. Liu also being of asian descent

Genetically this seems to be true as Asians tend to grow less than Europeans. But to predict how much one grows during puberty, we have to look at their closest genetic relatives - their parents. I haven't seen photos of Sasha's parents and their heights compared to her. With someone like Elena, it was quite obvious puberty wouldn't be kind as her dad is very tall. On the other hand, Anna and I believe Alena's parents don't look much taller than they are now. Of course there are anomalies as well. But Alysa is only half Asian, and her dad is quite tall and we've never seen her mom. And of course, being shorter isn't the only genetic advantage in figure skating. I'd imagine the ability to built lean strong muscle is very important as well, probably why Anna has a more difficult time getting height on her jumps than someone like Sasha.

 

[SkateSkates]

Genetically this seems to be true as Asians tend to grow less than Europeans. But to predict how much one grows during puberty, we have to look at their closest genetic relatives - their parents. I haven't seen photos of Sasha's parents and their heights compared to her. With someone like Elena, it was quite obvious puberty wouldn't be kind as her dad is very tall. On the other hand, Anna and I believe Alena's parents don't look much taller than they are now. Of course there are anomalies as well. But Alysa is only half Asian, and her dad is quite tall and we've never seen her mom. And of course, being shorter isn't the only genetic advantage in figure skating. I'd imagine the ability to built lean strong muscle is very important as well, probably why Anna has a more difficult time getting height on her jumps than someone like Sasha.

You can see Alena is already the same height or slightly taller than her mom in this photo (Alena’s mom is the blonde next to Alena and Sasha) https://www.instagram.com/p/BzVeHzlonnU/?igshid=178d0bh5a54ag

Sasha’s mom is still a bit taller than Sasha but can’t be more than 5’4-5’5 as she is shorter than Nathan Chen. She is the brunette in the back row on the right side.

Anna’s mom is squatting in that photo but you can see in this picture she isn’t much taller than Anna https://www.instagram.com/p/ByPzwegIRhT/?igshid=1pkuns8shwg5u

Basically what I’m trying to say is the 3A’s moms aren’t amazons by any means - they all range from fairly average height (Sasha’s) to short (Alena’s) which isn’t really surprising based on the height of the 3 girls. Of course the girls can grow to be taller than their parents - we will have to wait and see, but I don’t see any of them ending up anywhere near as tall as Polina or Maria.

 

[rlopen]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

I have a problem with this statement...especially mentioning these women. First off, many of these women did survive puberty and most of the reasons their careers ended the way they did was through injuries, lack of motivation, etc. Secondly, while they didn't have super, long-lasting senior careers...it's not like they had one good result or season. Many of them had at least two great seasons. Sotnikova had a world-class season as the European silver medalist in the 2012-2013 season. Pogorilaya had a very bad back injury that ended her career, her getting through puberty was actually a HUGE advantage for her in the 2016-2017 season as she fully utilized it to have more womanly program, and she was a 3-time European medalist and World bronze medalist, Radionova was a European silver medalist after 2014-2015, and Evgenia...I frankly don't even know why she was included here quite frankly.

Secondly, we, the US female skaters have also had a bunch of women skaters who were nowhere near the heights that they were as a junior or pre-puberty. Zhang, Nagasu (though she did land the 3A), Edmunds, Vivian Le, Amber Glenn, Tyler Pierce, Angela Wang, Courtney Hicks, and Hannah Miller to name a few. I'm not sure about the Koreans and Japanese, but from what I've seen in the US, it's not that we have girls who survive puberty better, it's that we have less junior prodigies so less cases to name.

Not everyone is Michelle Kwan or Maria Butyrskaya or Carolina Kostner.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

Lmao. Alysa is a kid, a junior kid so of course she’s only getting better right now. Remember the days when Elena Radionova won everything on the junior circuit and wrote herself into predictions for Pyeongchang? Or Polya Tsurskaya setting WRs and astounding people with her magnificent jumps. In their first junior year (and years beyond that) they were always getting better and people didn’t even know what to expect anymore. And not Russians. Mirai Nagasu won JGPF and set many WRs as a junior and what did she do on the senior level? Got some FCC medals but nothing too big. Karen Chen was said to be the next US star, and inconsistencies have plagued her ever since. And Marin Honda (oh my bb? What happened to your jumps?), said to be the next Olympic Champ. So why do you think Sasha (who looks better than ever, knows four quads, can actively land 3 in comp) won’t last but Alysa, who’s younger and has one UR and PR quad that hurts my ankles just looking at it will survive? Maybe she will, she seems like a determined young girl, but we can’t tell yet. Ice is slippery so don’t try to predict what will happen in 2 years.

Also US and KOR ladies have not bested the Russians. Medal count is 9 (RUS) to 4 (KOR) to 2 (USA). And there will be more RUS ladies than any other nation at the final. And keep in mind, Russia’s still got some of their stars in future generations (Akatieva with her 4T at age 12?) and so their “factory machine” method has not failed them yet. Just look at Valieva’s 221.95 (overscored but the score exists) can Alysa beat that? Looks a little doubtful for me (I’d cap Alysa’s off at 212 max).

 

[Ice Dance]

Frolova is pretty inconsistent and she always was (two clean programs is near impossible for her) - while junior Korean skaters known already for their consistency. That, and while they UR frequently - judges have tendency to overlook it.

Park has next to no reputation to speak of. I believe she was the 2nd lowest qualifier for Korea during their JGP Qualification competition.

But she did not UR once at Lake Placid. Those jumps were around clean. That is why she grabbed the medal. (A country's reputation in general is not a good reason to overlook the fact that there are exceptions. And this young lady was one of them).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I don’t think we have any evidence to say who will survive puberty and who won’t. Sasha is not my type of skater but she is a great jumper, competitor, and she looks strong. Greats muscles! This type of post is just looking to upset people. There are so many people on this forum who get upset about imaginary insults don’t make the situation worse, please!

And you find that sentence as imaginary thing too? But yeah, i don't think we can compare things like that. Puberty is not just a growth spurt and accomodation to it. There are Asians skaters who have problems during that period as well. And we can always open a separate thread to investigate those things further there, if we want to.

 

[Mawwerg]

I think people significally overestimate puberty influence on skaters.

 

[GINO]

Anna’s mom is squatting in that photo but you can see in this picture she isn’t much taller than Anna https://www.instagram.com/p/ByPzwegIRhT/?igshid=1pkuns8shwg5u

But according to this photo, Anna's sister outgrew her mother. Maybe Anna will be like a sister?

 

[[email protected]]

The Russian juniors have been a disappointment so far as the Koreans and Liu have bested them or threatened them. The Korean, Japanese and American ladies seem to survive puberty better to be blunt. (in general). I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022. We see what happened to Lipinskaya, Sotnikova, Pogooloraya, Radinova, Tsurskaya, Evgenia, Maria, Sofia, and even Alina is struggling with growth. Whereas Lius looks to be gaining strengt as well as the Yuna Kim inspired Koreans.

I was waiting for this post!

 

[klena]

I was waiting for this post!

It is amusing to observe with what persistence some people wait Sasha's fail due to puberty

 

[flanker]

I am not sure Trusova will make it to 2022.

Of course in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and people's misgivings about Trusova.

 

[JazzUp]

and people's misgivings about Trusova.

And in 99.99% of the cases it's usually their 'hopes and prayers' poorly disguised as misgivings in their posts

 

[katymay]

Of course in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and people's misgivings about Trusova.

Even if she left the sport tomorrow, for me she is one of the two greatest female skaters ever-the other being Midori Ito. Both girls/ladies did things I thought was impossible.

 

[moriel]

It is amusing to observe with what persistence some people wait Sasha's fail due to puberty

This and people complaining about her being overscored in PCs