Wow, I didn't see this coming!
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
Wow, I didn't see this coming!
A while ago I was transferring the footage to a backup hard drive, and so watching it all over again. And, now I feel Osmond should have won the Gold, Alina 2nd and Med 3d. LOL.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
I don't agree. I was sitting in the front row in the middle and saw it all live. As for the free program it was not the best Alina's performance - she did not hit the music the way she could do. But it was still a solid clean performance. And her saving 3Lz-3Lo with all the adrenaline that she had is a feat that is well worth the Olympic gold. Kaytlin not only had a significantly lower base value with 1 lutz and no 3Lo combo - she had a stepout. That's already a full stop. But even this one aside her performance was uneven. She started as one burst of energy. She was very fast and her jumps were huge. But apparently she got tired towards the end because her step sequence was almost at stand still speed. It was very visible and I wrote about it in my live report.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
If Evgenia's Lutz hadn't been called (like from 2015-18), she would have been over 150, despite a failed spin. And considering that her highest FS is 156 which includes 4 extra PCS points, she actually isn't far away score-wise from her "best". Not to mention 146 is a typical score during Eteri days during the GP season for her. In practices she is just as consistent so her skating level is there, a lot of mental work will just be required and Eteri/Sambo environment was the foundation of her mentality in the past. As much as there has been controversy and differences, Eteri truly understands her and Zhenya could always rely on her for strength. Frankly, if you just look at all Eteri skaters, she has mastered the mental side of the game completely.
Another note is that replacing 3T for 3Lo means that technically, Evgenia is doing the most technically complex program she has ever done and aside from one spin she delivered all the content. Even with spins, she's doing the most she has ever done technically by replacing her LSp4 with a FCSp4.
Disclaimer: I do think an incorrect Lutz should be called, and I have no problems it now is being called.
Aside from all of that...good luck to Alina and Aliona! I'll definitely focus much more on them this week now my comments above are completed
Another note is that replacing 3T for 3Lo means that technically, Evgenia is doing the most technically complex program she has ever done and aside from one spin she delivered all the content. Even with spins, she's doing the most she has ever done technically by replacing her LSp4 with a FCSp4.
Disclaimer: I do think an incorrect Lutz should be called, and I have no problems it now is being called.
Aside from all of that...good luck to Alina and Aliona! I'll definitely focus much more on them this week now my comments above are completed
Very well said and solid arguments! From a BV perspective we see the best zhenya ever. With this layout and her than weaker ss she would have clearly won against alina at the O. But: its just not enough anymore. Times have changed. She is now a veteran with mediacrore BVIf Evgenia's Lutz hadn't been called (like from 2015-18), she would have been over 150, despite a failed spin. And considering that her highest FS is 156 which includes 4 extra PCS points, she actually isn't far away score-wise from her "best". Not to mention 146 is a typical score during Eteri days during the GP season for her. In practices she is just as consistent so her skating level is there, a lot of mental work will just be required and Eteri/Sambo environment was the foundation of her mentality in the past. As much as there has been controversy and differences, Eteri truly understands her and Zhenya could always rely on her for strength. Frankly, if you just look at all Eteri skaters, she has mastered the mental side of the game completely.
Another note is that replacing 3T for 3Lo means that technically, Evgenia is doing the most technically complex program she has ever done and aside from one spin she delivered all the content. Even with spins, she's doing the most she has ever done technically by replacing her LSp4 with a FCSp4.
Disclaimer: I do think an incorrect Lutz should be called, and I have no problems it now is being called.
Aside from all of that...good luck to Alina and Aliona! I'll definitely focus much more on them this week now my comments above are completed
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Little teasing before IdF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWTUUtDnx4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWTUUtDnx4
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
reverting to old technique under pressure when you're nervous and stiff is very normal. new skills and technique can absolutely fly out the window when those things come into play, and it was obvious that's what happened at SC...her technique looked like what she did before. Tracy is right.
I love how you make some random conclusions about all Russia based on one case.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
Some people are having a really hard time imagining that the „trained technical specialists“ may be indeed more competent than us armchair judges. Not saying they never make mistakes, but there’s no conspiracy behind human failure. There’s a bunch of decisions I questioned in the past and there certainly will be more in the future, but since we don’t get to see the same footage as them I have to give them the benefit of doubt.
I guess when you’re so emotionally invested in a certain skater you can’t help but find it unfair when a decision by the judging panel doesn’t coincide with your opinion (that’s all it is, really). I am no exception to that. So this GP season I decided to write down remarks on all skates in the Ladies and Mens discipline and guess what, not only my faves are getting calls I don’t agree with or are “getting away” with whatever I would’ve called. I can only recommend doing so in order to become more open-minded!
I guess when you’re so emotionally invested in a certain skater you can’t help but find it unfair when a decision by the judging panel doesn’t coincide with your opinion (that’s all it is, really). I am no exception to that. So this GP season I decided to write down remarks on all skates in the Ladies and Mens discipline and guess what, not only my faves are getting calls I don’t agree with or are “getting away” with whatever I would’ve called. I can only recommend doing so in order to become more open-minded!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2016
Until October of this year, she was a cute girl from Arkhangelsk with a fantastic flexibility and amazing spins, - and now her two different quads in her 11 years make this wonderful child a potential contender for high positions in ladies single figure skating in the near future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VRYYXde5aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH0nR-dxhiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VRYYXde5aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH0nR-dxhiM
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
The knowledge of someone usually having a wrong edge on a certain jump doesn’t make it visible from their seat in competition. Afaik they also don’t get a slow-motion replay of the take-off so the tech panel doesn’t have it as easy as us. So unless I was 100% sure it’s wrong and had the footage to prove it, I’d also rather give the skater the benefit of doubt. Unfortunately I'm not as good as the blind people in detecting wrong edges but I'm working on it. I think we also underestimate the amount of work the panel has to do. We are often focused on certain things whereas they have to judge every single movement. That's of course not an excuse for potentionally wrong decisions, only an attempt at explanation.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
White is white and black is black. There are certain things in this world. One of them is Zhenya's wrong lutz edge. I while supporting her during good old days never questioned her wrong lutz edge. What I was always for, though, was fairness. Her main rival Osmond also had the same problem. The point was that they both should receive the same edge calls especially at the same competitions.
And, frankly speaking, it is possible to explain everything. Like the different angle for tech people as though they never saw Zhenya's lutzes before. Yes, one can explain everything but white is white and black is black.
And I agree that the argument about "trained specialists" is on the one hand quite convenient. But on the other hand it is ridiculous. This whole board exists because people do not believe everything they are told. Otherwise, we would just have fan fests here.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Upward mobility is certainly possible in the more affluent upper working class and middle classes. Upper class tramples on the lower classes and are despised for it (at least my Russian and Ukrainian host families made me think so)
But for athletes 'moving up a rung on society's ladder' is dependent on their success and many extraneous factors, like who you are acquainted with, who you sleep with even, since popularity only lasts as long as the shine of your medals.
Only the luckiest few athletes make big money later in life. Some go into politics for the government party.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
The only reason I asked if you were a specialist is because you stated that you analyzed Trusova's StSq very closely at two events and because step sequences are obviously much more difficult and complicated to analyze than jumps are.
The rules for StSq levels are lengthy and they pretty much require expertise in order to be able to call with any reasonable amount of accuracy. This isn't necessarily the case for jump edges or rotations.
When people disagree with the panel on jump edges/rotations, they usually have slow-mo of the video to show what they are saying. You continue to insist that Trusova's StSq was called incorrectly but have provided no evidence of such beyond saying it looked the same as it did at a previous competition. Which isn't really proof of anything, because the differences could be too small for you to notice, or, if the StSqs were indeed 100% identical, then perhaps it was called incorrectly at the previous event?
You haven't even provided links to the videos you're using for comparison.
All I'm saying is that if you are going to insist that a technical panel was wrong, you should at least be able to back that up with some sort of evidence. A breakdown of her StSq in slow-mo with every single step compared to the rules for the levels would be helpful in this regard. I do not have the expertise to do this, however, and I was genuinely curious if you did.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
I disagree with your first statement. Nothing in this world is ever just black or white. I do agree though that everyone should be held to the same standards and judged the same way within one competition. I can't provide my opinion on Medvedeva vs. Osmond because I haven't been a fan for long enough, but there's still room for error even if two skaters get watched equally closely, simply because the decision is being made by a human.
As I tried to explain before, knowing that e.g. someone flutzes doesn't give the panel the permission to just give that jump an "e". Let's say Zhenya magically lands a correct Lutz at her next competition. Should she get an edge call because she has been flutzing in the past? (Don't come at me saying that's never gonna happen, it's just a hypothetical example.) Every single execution has to be judged individually without former executions in mind.
And one more time, I'm not saying the tech panel never makes mistakes. It's good that people question decisions. I just disagree with the claim that there's a conspiracy behind calls that are wrong in our eyes. I'm rather seeing GOEs and PCS as a tool of manipulation than technical decisions. Also not saying it never-ever happens, but in my opinion there's barely room for manipulation.
Anyway, I think I said everything I currently have to say on that topic. I'm not trying to change someone’s mind, especially if they don’t want it changed. (Not talking about you but in general). I was just trying to give some food for thought.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
New video interview with Adelina Sotnikova by Emma Ghadzhiyeva: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90r3o-edWkQ, about Skate Canada, the cosmic performances of Trusova, why Medvyedeva still skates, the question of women's quads in the SP, transcript probably at sport24.ru.
Transcript here: https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...a-na-skate-america-mneniye-adeliny-sotnikovoy
Emma created her own "Figurka" Youtube channel, compulsory subscription for fans of Russian figure skating https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJbsKuqedkST92A2fOsp9pg
Her employer, Sport24, had a correspondent in Kelowna, and there is some interesting pre competition clips too on the channel.
Hopefully, all Emma's old video interviews will appear here.
Transcript here: https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...a-na-skate-america-mneniye-adeliny-sotnikovoy
Emma created her own "Figurka" Youtube channel, compulsory subscription for fans of Russian figure skating
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJbsKuqedkST92A2fOsp9pgHer employer, Sport24, had a correspondent in Kelowna, and there is some interesting pre competition clips too on the channel.
Hopefully, all Emma's old video interviews will appear here.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
Here's the results page: https://fsrussia.ru/results/1920/3etap/index.htm
Looking forward to Berestovskaya, Usacheva and Khromykh in Juniors and Guliakova, Gubanova and Tsibinova in Seniors!
I would use the URs example, because those, when severe (not speaking about +-1 degree near the limit) are quite visible even for an untrained eye, and are still frequently not called.
There are quite a few judging issues like that, of judges overlooking obvious things that do not need stop motion, things that you see in real time.
Another great example would be, i think, the borked jumps by Hanyu, when he clearly and obviously messes up the landing and still gets massive goe for it. Not bashing Hanyu, he is awesome, but it happens and it is obvious.
We also observe major inconcistencies of tech pannels output across competitions, when skaters get wildly different marks for similar performances. We have many cases of skaters who got like 5 UR calls in one competition, and then 0 in another, and its not like they suddenly started rotating much more. Or when a skater gets a lv2 StSq on one event, and then a lv4 in the very next one, and its not like it changed much.
For me, as statistician, high variability of the measure output for similar things means that there may be something wrong with the precision of our measuring tool aka judges, or in the way we approach the measuring (for example, if an untrained eye cannot differentiate StSq 2 from StSq4, maybe we should change the way we judge that so it makes more sense).
