2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[JazzUp]

You seem more focused on the choice of words

I just don't like when people lie or intentionally misrepresent facts.

Honestly who cares what Eteri has literally said to her? ...
... Her sister complains about Alina lack of motivation, laziness,...

Seriously? You don't care what Eteri actually says but are ready to swallow whatever her drunk sister blurts out? Great approach.

 

[Tolstoj]

Who cares about what Eteri said,but Let's discuss what her drunk sister said when hordes of aggressive people attacked her IG page.

And Frankly, who cares what Alina said either, it's Marina Hoffman we are all interested in.

I just don't like when people lie or intentionally misrepresent facts.

Seriously? You don't care what Eteri actually says but are ready to swallow whatever her drunk sister blurts out? Great approach.

Most of all this nonsense came out from that and Tarasova-Plushenko comments on Alina's decision.

I love how her sister is now the drunk black sheep of the family and can't be trusted.

At the same time similar words were said for Yulia Lipnitskaya after Sochi (not from her "drunk" sister), and Evgenia told her new coaches that Eteri wanted her to retire and have babies. We'll just pretend that never happened right?

It seems in this thread the only words that can be trusted are Eteri's, the others are all liars meanwhile controversial articles around this group suddenly disappear and journalists are getting fired whenever they dare to criticize.

 

[thedude]

I remember that interview. It was discussed here already, it's nothing new. Shuboderova is completely untrustworthy in this. Her friendship with Alina ended long ago, just like her being part of the team. It should be also added that so far she was the only skater who talked this way about the team, you didn't hear such things from Shelepen, Tsurskaya, not even from Zhenya.

That's an interesting way to describe a teenage girl without knowing anything else about her. Just because she speaks out against your favorite coach doesn't make her a liar. Her experience might differ from their experience. The difference an age and power dynamics between an 40 yr old adult and a teenager is quite dramatic. One has the position the position of authority while the other is still not mentally fully developed. Teenage girls often are afraid speak out against someone with authority because they're afraid of being labeled a liar or derogatory names.

Granted I would create doubt about adverse witness's character if I was defense lawyer, but that's a legal strategy. This is just figure skating.

 

[DSQ]

Puh-lease. If Med was called a traitor for moving to Canada, then Zagitovas head would be called for for moving to Russia's numero uno enemy.

That's being said, the drama would break this forum.

As weird as it sounds Raf is different. While he’s not actually Russian he’s seen as a Russian coach because he trained in Russia. Remember the rumours that Kolyada was moving to him?

Take Diana Davis, she trains in America and no one cares because it’s with a Russian.

 

[JazzUp]

It seems in this thread the only words that can be trusted are Eteri's, the others are all liars

Well, if someone does post lies then yes, they are a liar, wouldn't you agree?

 

[DSQ]

Let’s not slander Eteri’s sister by calling her a drunk. He words are silly enough without resorting to personal insults.

 

[nussnacker]

OR ... maybe, just maybe...
Alina’s actually tired and wants to take a break, because she wants that.

 

[flanker]

1. No, and I never said that. The discussion is beyond old, so I‘d rather leave it at that: Saying that I think Shuboderova didn‘t lie doesn’t mean that I automatically think other Tutberidze students are liars. One doesn’t exclude the other. Personally, I think Shuboderova‘s words are supported by rather a lot, even though she might exaggerate in some aspects of the interview. But what use would it be to bring all my arguments on why I personally came to this conclusion when we‘ve had this very same discussion countless of times before and never even came close to finding a consensus? In some aspects it‘s better to agree to disagree.

2. :agree: I‘d never deny me being guilty of that as well. But considering you yourself didn‘t bring ANY argument whatsoever to your statement other than “she left the group a long time ago“, I‘d say the same applies to you as well. My comment was pure sarcasm, criticism taken. But considering what I’ve seen from the skating world the last few days, I feel safe to say I’m not the worst offender.

(At least I‘m not a coach having a catfight with another coach on Instagram. And that was sarcasm again and now I‘ll see myself out. )

You still don't understand. Proving something (like wrongdoing, or justr that anything happens) is on the one who claims something happens. Not on the other side, because you can't prove the negative. In this the lack of evidence for a claim means the claim is just unproven claim. So theoretically I don't need to prove anything, sometimes it is even hardly possible. Still, I will dare to say that claims like "Eteri is intentionally putting some skaters aside" just doesn't fit the reality at all. No matter how one can look at some of her comments about skaters who left it wasn't a reaction of someone who was in a state "finally she's gone." We can talk about whether her attitude always can motivate some skaters but I can't see anything that would prove she doesn't want to continue with someone. Like e.g. Polina Tsurskaya, she said she didn't feel well in the competitive envidonment of the team anymore, but nothing about someone would intentionally put her aside. This is a big difference I see many people mischange.

I'm not measuring recent comments and claims on a scale. I just see people in this tend to believe what corresponds to their opinion. Who thinks Eteri's camp is hell on ice, he naturally accepts statements like that from Shuboderova as a confirmation, well "I've told ya all the time". Or the simple fact that Alina announces "I'm giving a break" is prove of anything they have against it no matter that Alina explicitely said it's temporary and expressed loyalty to her team and "there is nothing between us", all this started though with other people involved instead of alina and Eteri this would hardly get over a small note in news.

 

[flanker]

That's an interesting way to describe a teenage girl without knowing anything else about her. Just because she speaks out against your favorite coach doesn't make her a liar. Her experience might differ from their experience. The difference an age and power dynamics between an 40 yr old adult and a teenager is quite dramatic. One has the position the position of authority while the other is still not mentally fully developed. Teenage girls often are afraid speak out against someone with authority because they're afraid of being labeled a liar or derogatory names.

Granted I would create doubt about adverse witness's character if I was defense lawyer, but that's a legal strategy. This is just figure skating.

Just read the exchange with Fluture, I will not repeat myself.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

Evgenia told her new coaches that Eteri wanted her to retire and have babies. We'll just pretend that never happened right?

I don't believe that Eteri pressured Evgenia to retire, because:

- It came from Doug on TSL and later Evgenia herself said it wasn't true. As far as I remember, she asked Doug not to speak on her behalf.

- In Eteri's first interview after Evgenia left, Eteri was saying that she expected something like this because EM wasn't returning her messages and she showed them. They were messages asking EM to come sign some docs related to the new season training schedule. Obviously Eteri wasn't expecting Evgenia to quit. On the contrary, she was expecting her to come train.

- Eteri was visibly upset after Evgenia's loss and reaction at the Olympics. She went out of her way to defend her and make her feel better. Like "there should have been two golds," etc. Why would she try to comfort and motivate her if she wants to retire?

Again, this whole "Eteri pushed Evgenia out" is based on the words of some guy, who is allegedly a friend of Brian. He had other controversial comments about skaters bodies, etc. that I don't really remember. He is invited on that show only for bringing gossip from TSL and, if I was Brian or Evgenia, I would stop talking to him. I think he actually harmed Evgenia's relations with Russian fans. She may have said or not some things in private, but he had no right to create gossip. She has her own voice and she never said Eteri forced her to retire.

 

[flanker]

OR ... maybe, just maybe...
Alina’s actually tired and wants to take a break, because she wants that.

Nonono, there must be a sinister purpose behind, people in the shop were talking about it today. Or should we call them all liars? How nasty

 

[ruga]

I don't thing we should disregard Shuboderova's words. After all, she said that the advantages of the group outweigh the drawbacks and she didn't blame Eteri for her unsuccessful career. Eteri or anyone from her group didn't deny her words either. And there wasn't anything particularly scandalous about this interview. Weights checks - many skaters spoke about it. Different groups for skaters of different level - someone talked about it as well. Overall, there was nothing surprising about this and nothing odd either. Just strict coaching, that's it. I doubt any of us imagine Eteri as someone like, say, Yamada and Higuchi.

 

[SkatingFan9]

Evgenia told her new coaches that Eteri wanted her to retire and have babies. We'll just pretend that never happened right?

I feel sick reading your comments. You are spreading untruths aka lies created by Eteri’s enemies. Eteri would never say such a thing.

Please stop spreading lies, thanks.

 

[flanker]

I don't thing we should disregard Shuboderova's words. After all, she said that the advantages of the group outweigh the drawbacks and she didn't blame Eteri for her unsuccessful career. Eteri or anyone from her group didn't deny her words either. And there wasn't anything particularly scandalous about this interview. Weights checks - many skaters spoke about it. Different groups for skaters of different level - someone talked about it as well. Overall, there was nothing surprising about this and nothing odd either. Just strict coaching, that's it. I doubt any of us imagine Eteri as someone like, say, Yamada and Higuchi.

I would paraphase my beloved TV show Yes, Minister: First rule in figure skating: never believe anything until it's officially denied.

 

[Edwin]

Oh i know this very well, experiencing it in first person.

I played basketball for like 6-7 years until 12-13, i was even very good but also very timid at the time, so i often had amazing practices but never really showing all my skills during the match. Because of that and because there was some clear bigger push (financial) for other teammates, the coaches work individually with the ones they like more and leave out the rest in the reserve groups. I lost interest in the sport because of that and quitted. I've always regretted not trying out with other coaches.

It is curious tho, to see it at a very high level, when usually athletes are coached individually.

You could quit your sport, by many kids are caught between their sport they (used to) love and even live for, and their parents who pay $$$ to realise your (their?) ambitions. From what I've learned about mother Lipnitskaya and a lesser extent mother Medvyedeva, they were pushy and very demanding of all involved.

 

[theharleyquinn]

In other news, it looks like Kanysheva is pain-free and ready to train again based on her latest post.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B6JNAD5omGe/

 

[Tolstoj]

I don't believe that Eteri pressured Evgenia to retire, because:

- It came from Doug on TSL and later Evgenia herself said it wasn't true. As far as I remember, she asked Doug not to speak on her behalf.

- In Eteri's first interview after Evgenia left, Eteri was saying that she expected something like this because EM wasn't returning her messages and she showed them. They were messages asking EM to come sign some docs related to the new season training schedule. Obviously Eteri wasn't expecting Evgenia to quit. On the contrary, she was expecting her to come train.

- Eteri was visibly upset after Evgenia's loss and reaction at the Olympics. She went out of her way to defend her and make her feel better. Like "there should have been two golds," etc. Why would she try to comfort and motivate her if she wants to retire?

Again, this whole "Eteri pushed Evgenia out" is based on the words of some guy, who is allegedly a friend of Brian. He had other controversial comments about skaters bodies, etc. that I don't really remember. He is invited on that show only for bringing gossip from TSL and, if I was Brian or Evgenia, I would stop talking to him. I think he actually harmed Evgenia's relations with Russian fans. She may have said or not some things in private, but he had no right to create gossip. She has her own voice and she never said Eteri forced her to retire.

Evgenia said very clearly to Brian the first day they met (that's what Brian said to Phil Hersh) that she didn't want to criticize openly Eteri, you have to understand what would be the consequences for Zhenya on saying such things to Western media.

Eteri was visibly upset cause Evgenia left at her conditions, not Eteri. She didn't ask the coach to approve Brian as the next coach, she didn't bring the flower.

That's the difference with Alina, who is probably following Eteri's guidelines.

I also do not agree with many things Doug has said, but after all he said, he still works there, soo...

 

[nussnacker]

I also do not agree with many things Doug has said, but after all he said, he still works there, soo...

Doug isn’t a coach at TCC, is he?
He was a director there some long time ago, he then switched to some other place, has he been back at TCC?

 

[Mishaminion]

Please can we not make this into Eteri vs Evgenia or a fan war all over again. It's not the same situation, not even a similar one.

 

[nussnacker]

Anyway. It’s time to move on from this topic.
Sinitsina and Vasilieva are named to the YOG!
What a year for Vasilieva, who thinks she’s going senior next season?