2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Russia]

Good for you. But apparently 89 pushes your berserk button?

No. The results don't bother me at all. I just don't think it's fair to Anna and Sasha, who worked way too hard to have this opportunity possibly taken from them by shoddy judging.

Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp, but not by 10 points over Anna and not by 13 points over Sasha. That's all I am saying. Had Aliona scored 86 points, her score would be inflated to the same extent that Anna and Sasha's were, which is not by much.

Can you answer something? If Sasha and Anna land all of their quads and lose to Aliona, would you consider the results to be fair?

 

[SkateSkates]

No. The results don't bother me at all. I just don't think it's fair to Anna and Sasha, who worked way too hard to have this opportunity possibly taken from them by shoddy judging.

Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp, but not by 10 points over Anna and not by 13 points over Sasha. That's all I am saying. Had Aliona scored 86 points, her score would be inflated to the same extent that Anna and Sasha's were, which is not by much.

Can you answer something? If Sasha and Anna land all of their quads and lose to Aliona, would you consider the results to be fair?

It depends on how well they land their quads and how well the rest of their programs are executed, and how well Aliona executes her program.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If Sasha and Anna land all of their quads and lose to Aliona, would you consider the results to be fair?

If Sasha or Anna complete their elements successfully, Alena cannot win. It's simple math. Alena had a 4 point BV advantage over Anna and translated that to a 10 point lead. She had a 5 point BV advantage over Sasha and translated that to a 13 point lead. In the LP, her BVs are nowhere near the other two.

But winning is not only about the quads; they need to do the combinations (which are worth as much as a quad) and all the other triples, too.

 

[Mishaminion]

No. The results don't bother me at all. I just don't think it's fair to Anna and Sasha, who worked way too hard to have this opportunity possibly taken from them by shoddy judging.

Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp, but not by 10 points over Anna and not by 13 points over Sasha. That's all I am saying. Had Aliona scored 86 points, her score would be inflated to the same extent that Anna and Sasha's were, which is not by much.

Can you answer something? If Sasha and Anna land all of their quads and lose to Aliona, would you consider the results to be fair?

Alyona gained almost 7 points alone on them with her massive Triple Axel. That's not shoddy judging that's the reality of her quality.
It is fair because neither Sasha or Anna had that kind of superiority in the SP.

Alyona scoring 86 would be damn unfair as that's only half a point more than an inferior performance at GPF. She was much better here, which you seem determined to downplay.

I absolutely do believe Anna and Sasha can beat Alyona with all their quads. I mean Anna with 2 and a fall just edged in front of Alyona in the GPF FS. So 3 clean quads and good on everything else would be enough.
If Sasha lands even 4 out of 5 she will have a monstrous score too.

The FS is tomorrow, what is the point in speculating a bunch of ifs? Did you not see the mens?

 

[Russia]

If Sasha or Anna complete their elements successfully, Alena cannot win. It's simple math. Alena had a 4 point BV advantage over Anna and translated that to a 10 point lead. She had a 5 point BV advantage over Sasha and translated that to a 13 point lead. In the LP, her BVs are nowhere near the other two.

But winning is not only about the quads; they need to do the combinations (which are worth as much as a quad) and all the other triples, too.

If Aliona gets overly inflated GOEs and PCS, while Anna and Sasha do not, anything is possible.

 

[Mishaminion]

If Aliona gets overly inflated GOEs and PCS, while Anna and Sasha do not, anything is possible.

Explain how they were overly inflated?

 

[lusterfan]

No. The results don't bother me at all. I just don't think it's fair to Anna and Sasha, who worked way too hard to have this opportunity possibly taken from them by shoddy judging.

Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp, but not by 10 points over Anna and not by 13 points over Sasha. That's all I am saying. Had Aliona scored 86 points, her score would be inflated to the same extent that Anna and Sasha's were, which is not by much.

Can you answer something? If Sasha and Anna land all of their quads and lose to Aliona, would you consider the results to be fair?

Even before they start, Alyona has a 3.87 lead in TES from her higher BV and another 2.48 advantage in higher GOE capabilities for her 3A over Anna's 2A. That alone is 6.35 points! Given that a less-than-flawless Alyona's international PCS advantage at GPF was 1.47 higher than a flawless Anna's, the 2.24 PCS advantage at Nationals that a clean Alyona got isn't that inconceivable. Alyona has been ultra consistent and winning everything. Throw in the hardest jump a lady can do in the SP and voila you get Alyona's score at Nationals. If international judges were already giving a less-than-flawless Alyona a 7 pt advantage, a nationals panel giving a perfect Alyona a 10 pt advantage is hardly crazy. Maybe she deserved a little less, but it's one competition and variance applies. Once Sasha and Anna get national boosts, Alyona needs to get one too to reflect how their gaps are internationally. That results in Alyona getting pushed even higher than her WR SP score.

Just as all prior skaters have earned their point-margins for being consistent champions (Evgenia, Alina), or inflations for having the hardest tech (Alina, Rika) - Alyona deservedly gets that now too.

EDIT: Also, as much as I love Alyona, idk why everyone is already crowning her the champion (and bashing her, as haters flock to the winners). She's 10 points ahead of Anna and 13 points ahead of Sasha, sure, but that's just in the SP. A perfect 3 quad Anna will squeeze out enough points to beat a perfect Alyona. That's just how the game works. Alyona does more in the SP and gets her advantage there. Anna does more in the FS and gets her advantage there. And Sasha could absolutely overtake both of them, although landing all of her quads (and a greater PCS deficit) have been harder for her. Literally all three of them are neck-to-neck right now and it's hard to predict who will win. Alyona can be perfect and still lose, so her fate literally rests in Anna and Sasha's hands.

 

[SkateSkates]

If Aliona gets overly inflated GOEs and PCS, while Anna and Sasha do not, anything is possible.

Again, can you please articulate which specific bullet points in the ISU criteria you do not believe her jumps meet?

GOE and PCS are her strength as she doesn’t have quads. Her higher GOE and PCS scores make up for her lower BV (even with 3As). Quads are Sasha and Anna’s strengths. They are the best rotators in the air in the world and probably in the history of the sport. However, can we all agree that Aliona’s triple jumps meet more of the bullet points than Sasha and Anna’s? I’m just talking about her triples, not quads.

All of their programs have been built to maximize their strengths - Sasha and Anna in BV, Aliona in execution. These are 2 very different but both valid strategies.

 

[Mishaminion]

Alyona is Russia's female Jason Brown. Which is a very good thing xD

 

[Russia]

She scored nearly a 90. Can you really honestly say that her performance was 4-5 points better than her previous best? I mean...that is a huge number. This went beyond the point of expected inflation. Her score was comical.

Anna, mind you, did not get anywhere near the same boost and she was amazing.

Agree to disagree if you want. But you would probably defend her score even had it been close to 95.

 

[taylor1]

If you think her scores are so inflated can you please tell me which positive GOE bullets you do not think Aliona’s jumps deserved? Or her spins (which are all well centered with good speed even if she doesn’t have the ultra flexibility?)

well for starters her flutz

 

[Mishaminion]

well for starters her flutz

Flat at best. What the...

I do not understand why there is suddenly so much negativity of Alyona.

 

[Fluture]

well for starters her flutz

Her lutz deserves !, true. But if hers does, so does Anna‘s. They both had uncalled edges on their lutzes today and I would argue this time around, possibly due to angles, Anna‘s was even more obvious. Sasha is the ONLY one of Eteri‘s current seniors with a true, deep outside edge on her lutz.

And even if you‘d have given Aliona ! for the lutz (which wasn‘t gonna happen bc it‘s Nationals) her jump ticks off all the other boxes so would still be in the 2+ GOE range. So really, the difference is minimal.

 

[jennapowers]

Because Alyona skated much better than GPF and Anna not much differently at all.
Just because Alyona scored some 4 points more doesn't mean Anna should have.

I just watched Alena's gpf and I can confidently tell you there is no difference from her performance today, and certainty no difference that warrants an 85 becoming an 89. I'm sorry please tell me where an 89 came from?! That's just absurd. If judges gave Alena a 89, they at least should have given Anna an 83.

 

[Mishaminion]

I just watched Alena's gpf and I can confidently tell you there is no difference from her performance today, and certainty no difference that warrants an 85 becoming an 89. I'm sorry please tell me where an 89 came from?! That's just absurd. If judges gave Alena a 89, they at least should have given Anna an 83.

Well I saw the difference.

As did many others.

She was not matched with her music at GPF, the axel was not as good, she was visibly tighter and more nervous.

So it is a difference of opinion I suppose.

Again, just because Alyona got 4 points more does not mean Anna should have. Or Sasha for that matter...should we say she should have got 80?

 

[Russia]

I just watched Alena's gpf and I can confidently tell you there is no difference from her performance today, and certainty no difference that warrants an 85 becoming an 89. I'm sorry please tell me where an 89 came from?! That's just absurd. If judges gave Alena a 89, they at least should have given Anna an 83.

Exactly. Where is the 4-5 point difference?! I mean, even a 1 point increase is big. 4-5 points is comical.

 

[Fluture]

I just watched Alena's gpf and I can confidently tell you there is no difference from her performance today, and certainty no difference that warrants an 85 becoming an 89. I'm sorry please tell me where an 89 came from?! That's just absurd. If judges gave Alena a 89, they at least should have given Anna an 83.

And I can confidently tell you there was a difference. So, who is right now? I don‘t know. It‘s both just our opinions, judges have to decide and they did in the end. Tomorrow is another day. As a matter of fact, and as an Aliona fan, I still believe Anna‘s going to walk away as two times Nats Champ tomorrow.

Just to put this into perspective: Anna BEAT Aliona with an imperfect skate at GPF, where she had both an UR and a fall. Aliona was virtually perfect. If Anna is even remotely clean tomorrow, she will WIN. Sasha as well if she lands her quads. Really, Aliona has just made the rivalry more interesting by adding that 3A. Once Sasha (or Anna but I do suspect at this point Sasha will be faster with that) adds hers, the story will be different again.

 

[Mishaminion]

Exactly. Where is the 4-5 point difference?! I mean, even a 1 point increase is big. 4-5 points is comical.

Better 3A
less tight on the jumps in general
Actually perfectly matching the music
Less visibly nervous more confident performance
Plus a little bit of Nationals inflation.

 

[discode]

I just watched Alena's gpf and I can confidently tell you there is no difference from her performance today, and certainty no difference that warrants an 85 becoming an 89. I'm sorry please tell me where an 89 came from?! That's just absurd. If judges gave Alena a 89, they at least should have given Anna an 83.

https://youtu.be/bMSlyxjdNNQ

It's pretty obvious in the 2nd half of the program how much better she was today and was actually with the music. And her 3A was also better. 3F3T was right to the music as well.

 

[silveruskate]

She scored nearly a 90. Can you really honestly say that her performance was 4-5 points better than her previous best? I mean...that is a huge number. This went beyond the point of expected inflation. Her score was comical.

Anna, mind you, did not get anywhere near the same boost and she was amazing.

Agree to disagree if you want. But you would probably defend her score even had it been close to 95.

I think it's a little petty to stain Aliona when in reality you're specifically upset about Anna's score being too low in your eyes. Just argue for that instead of all the drama about Aliona.

Other posters also have the same complex as it's all in comparison to Anna... "Anna should have got 83 if Aliona got 89". You could just say "Anna should have gotten 83" and leave it there?