2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mathman]

Am I the only one who would prefer Shcherbakova going for quad lutz ... only after her actual lutz is getting proper?

She should throw up as many quad Lutzes as the rules allow (2, then 2 more triple Lutzes), good or bad. Points, points, points.

 

[Figure 8's]

Am I the only one who would prefer Shcherbakova going for quad lutz ... only after her actual lutz is getting proper?

Huh?

 

[KOBOT37]

Am I the only one who would prefer Shcherbakova going for quad lutz ... only after her actual lutz is getting proper?

Nah, Certain personalities who we aren't allowed to mention here also prefer that, but for some reason judges seem to judge according to rules not according to 'textbook technique' or preferences of certain fans.

 

[Fluture]

Just briefly: Is truly this a place for a You fan coming, saying how she is above russian skaters and expecting that she will be praised into the sky?

No, and I can‘t remember ever saying anything like that.

Yet, my comment definitely wasn't disrespectful just because you say so. Those comments (not just by one person) that made me to react were.

You say one thing, I say the other, who‘s got the truth in the end? I don’t know. If you think you do: Good for you.

As for Alina: Sorry, didn’t know it was such a crime to mention her as an example lol.

And yes, again, your reactions are selective and it completely doesn't matter what words are used.

Yes, they are, as are yours. I obviously don’t react to all comments. (And neither do you) Disagree about the second point. For a discussion, it does matter.

Oh, c'mon, the love and - the opposite - were too strong motives that time, that was not about analyzing something

I don‘t know what you‘re on about here, frankly. I was happy for Alina’s win (I don‘t think anybody could watch her cry of relief and not feel happy for her but idk). Doesn‘t mean I have to agree with the scores. Those are two totally different things.

I don‘t have much more to say about You’s scores. I tried to look but I really can‘t agree with your GOE. I would have, if we still had the +3 -3 range but we don‘t. So, yeah, agree to disagree here.

(Kamila's performance qualities and her TES 8 points higher).

That‘s just... to me. Like, 8 points? I really don‘t see it.

And Kamila received her PCS score 62 for JGPF just a moth ago, or in competitions time, just the next junior competition. Did the PCS rose so high in between? That's not small meh, that's big MEH, how high should be PCS at junior worlds, then?

Again, competitions are different. And I think we’ve all agreed that PCS at JGPF were weird. I distinctly remember many discussions about that in just this very same thread. I don‘t know how this makes You’s PCS not valid, however. I can see a discussion about Kamila‘s PCS being too low but I don‘t see how that automatically means You‘s were too high. I just don‘t see the correlation here.

I know you like to write, even when I'm just a very occasional reader I also write much, justy not everything of that matters figure skating.

Well, I suppose so. As much as we all like our figure skating, it would be truly weird if anybody wrote only about that.

Nobody can expect that one side can use some argument while forbid it the opponents.

I don’t expect anything other than respect for the skaters even in criticism. I felt your comment was disrespectful to You so I responded. Nothing more than that.

That‘s all and I think I‘ll leave it like that. I may like writing but not when I feel the discussion is fruitless.

 

[Fluture]

Am I the only one who would prefer Shcherbakova going for quad lutz ... only after her actual lutz is getting proper?

No, you’re not. I would have preferred her going for 4T and then 4F first. She’s landed 4T before her injury and then recently on a harness and it looked good. But the lutz gives you the most points so it’s logical that she‘ll do it.

My main problem is her edge. Imo, she has a pretty flat edge and doesn’t receive ! anymore. She should, she’s putting 4 lutzes in her FS after all.

I don’t know too much about prerotation and considering that the majority of ladies has it even on their triples, I wouldn’t be too harsh here. I think we’ll have to wait a few years for quads with better technique. What Sasha and Anna are doing right now is incredibly groundbreaking. Judges are people too and they’re impressed. It’s normal. I wouldn’t consider Anna’s (probably even Sasha’s) real quad lutzes to the standards of the rule books but fact is, that so far, they’re the best 4Lz we have ever seen in ladies. That alone makes them impressive.

 

[Arbitrary]

Even best of male skaters rarely do more than three quads.
Why should Anna risk her overall good impression attempting four?
Two lutzes and flip give her maximized BV in her safe zone. Adding 3Ax would solve many issues. But additional 4T us just a pure rusk.

 

[flanker]

No, and I can‘t remember ever saying anything like that.



You say one thing, I say the other, who‘s got the truth in the end? I don’t know. If you think you do: Good for you.

As for Alina: Sorry, didn’t know it was such a crime to mention her as an example lol.



Yes, they are, as are yours. I obviously don’t react to all comments. (And neither do you) Disagree about the second point. For a discussion, it does matter.



I don‘t know what you‘re on about here, frankly. I was happy for Alina’s win (I don‘t think anybody could watch her cry of relief and not feel happy for her but idk). Doesn‘t mean I have to agree with the scores. Those are two totally different things.

I don‘t have much more to say about You’s scores. I tried to look but I really can‘t agree with your GOE. I would have, if we still had the +3 -3 range but we don‘t. So, yeah, agree to disagree here.




That‘s just... to me. Like, 8 points? I really don‘t see it.



Again, competitions are different. And I think we’ve all agreed that PCS at JGPF were weird. I distinctly remember many discussions about that in just this very same thread. I don‘t know how this makes You’s PCS not valid, however. I can see a discussion about Kamila‘s PCS being too low but I don‘t see how that automatically means You‘s were too high. I just don‘t see the correlation here.




Well, I suppose so. As much as we all like our figure skating, it would be truly weird if anybody wrote only about that.



I don’t expect anything other than respect for the skaters even in criticism. I felt your comment was disrespectful to You so I responded. Nothing more than that.

That‘s all and I think I‘ll leave it like that. I may like writing but not when I feel the discussion is fruitless.

Just a brief response, no point in analyzing it piece by piece as most of it suffers fromt he same problem:

First, I didn't get involved into discussion about "You vs. RLT" by reaction onto your comments. so, when I say "Is truly this a place for a You fan coming, saying how she is above russian skaters and expecting that she will be praised into the sky", I wasn't talking about you, but about why my reaction to the other comments was as it was.

Second: You asked how would I feel if "somebody would talk about Alina as I did about You". I countered by pointing at the fact that I just didn't start to praise Alina in some other thread as You was started to be praised here. Again, it is necessary to follow what is action and what is reaction. And then I only added that actually there was such situation about Alina made by you personally

Third: I would consider your attitude towards Alina, if you need to speak about her in a discussion that wasn't about her at all originally, as, what is the word? Ambivalent. The same with most of her team-mates.

Fourth: Back to the topic. 4 points in TES and 4 points or even more in components. Yes. I said why.

Fifth: Just to repeat, if it is allowed to compare scores from different competitions in the disadvantage of the russian ladies in RLT, then I feel free to make such comparisons the other way, in the clarification why I consider some scoring weird. And, to remind it, my first comment that concerned YOG results wasn't like that. I didn't intend to make any analysis or doubts about You's score, I just did it only after when her score and performance started to be compared with the scores of the russian juniors in a negative way towards them. You said you don't react to everything, but you've chosen ro react to the consequence, not to the cause.

 

[McBibus]

She should throw up as many quad Lutzes as the rules allow (2, then 2 more triple Lutzes), good or bad. Points, points, points.

Really OT, but i never understood why there is such a big difference in BV between Jumps with the same rotation.
It's ok for small relative difference but 10,3 (4T) vs 13,6 (4Lz) is 30%

 

[Alex65]

Really OT, but i never understood why there is such a big difference in BV between Jumps with the same rotation.
It's ok for small relative difference but 10,3 (4T) vs 13,6 (4Lz) is 30%

Just I will correct:
4T- 9.5
4Lz- 11.5

 

[macy]

You're not the only one.



Compare to Nathan Chen quad lutz. Or perhaps more humane: How about comparing her quad lutz to what the actual definition of a lutz takeoff is? A lutz has a toe pick takeoff assist, not half or more of the blade assisting. Despite tech panels ratifying her "lutz" and the judges going along with the entire charade, whatever Anna is doing, it isn't really a lutz. I'm frankly surprised that Team Eteri has let her get away with this questionable technique....but I guess, whatever wins them medals....

oh for the love of God...not again

 

[Arbitrary]

Due to today's collapse of the Russian Government we may expect some changes in the policies toward the whole Russian sport industry and FS particularly.

 

[Resa]

Due to today's collapse of the Russian Government we may expect some changes in the policies toward the whole Russian sport industry and FS particularly.

huh? what happened? did I miss something?

 

[Ykai]

huh? what happened? did I miss something?

Russian government resigned, though I don't know what that means.

 

[flanker]

Due to today's collapse of the Russian Government we may expect some changes in the policies toward the whole Russian sport industry and FS particularly.

There will be some other government. Will be there any difference? Just like in Yes, minister:

Sir Humphrey: How's your new Cabinet?
Sir Arnold: No problem. Similar to the last one.

 

[Resa]

Russian government resigned, though I don't know what that means.

Oh thats big

 

[Resa]

I don't think there will be many changes in sports policy though

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Sadly I believe that Sinitsina and Frolova do not know or understand how to use their faces to interpret music. I don’t believe they’ve been taught. It’s crazy because if a professional dancer never used her face to interpret music she would never get hired. But in figure skating it doesn’t matter.
It makes me feel absolutely nothing emotionally when they skate.
And I hate when people use the excuse “oh, they’re young”. Young dancers can interpret music very well, I’ve seen 7-yr-olds with outstanding facial performances.

 

[silveruskate]

There aren't many skaters that have a true and proper lutz; Shcherbakova (like most) can definitely improve her lutz however she's clearly doing it well enough that judges are giving her credit for what she's doing. It's unlikely that she removes the 4Lzs, if she starts getting called regularly for her lutz edge I can see them working with her to get the 4F well enough to do that in combination and do her 4Lz only once. That's why I was happy to see her get the 4F especially after China (I suspect China judging made her team get very interested in the 4F for her) because it gives her the option of a different quad.

At this point the quad lutz is considered the most difficult jump being attempted in competitions and it scores points that make it worth it to go for it, even with edge calls and/or under-rotations, if the skater can land it. Look at Shcherbakova's Cup of China protocols she makes out okay even with an edge call on both 4Lz's and an under-rotation on the combination - getting 12.48 and 12.16 points for those 2 jumping passes which at that competition were still the highest scoring jumps of the ladies field, except for Anna's back-loaded 3lz-3lo (12.39). You can even look at the GPF and those 2 jumping passes from China that were considered 'flawed' were scored higher than every jumping pass not done by Shcherbakova/Kostornaia/Trusova and scored higher than all of Trusova's non-quad jumping passes and higher than all except for Kostornaia's 2 back-loaded 3-3 jumping passes. And if she nails them well enough that judges don't ding them for under-rotations or edge problems then she can get 30+ points for those 2 elements.

I really liked your analysis on this. Having the option of quads makes it so much easier not to sacrifice points. 4F-3T, 4F, 4Lz, 2A, 3F-3Lo, 3F-eu-3S, 3Lz is still a very strong program that doesn't rely as much on lutzes. Although, I really don't think Anna will have any issues with calls.

To me the rotation on both 4F so far look much easier and cleaner. As there is only 0.5 points difference in BV it would make sense to have two 4F instead if it becomes a higher GoE jump for her.

 

[Mawwerg]

If Sinitsyna continues to skate like today she will not qualify to Junior Worlds.

 

[SkateSkates]

If Sinitsyna continues to skate like today she will not qualify to Junior Worlds.

But who would qualify over her? If we assume Kamila and Daria take 2 spots, who is ahead of her? The only person I can think of is Kanysheva if she can return to form post injury, but I’m not sure if there’s enough time for this to happen. Tarakanova and Vasilieva are both question marks right now after missing nationals due to injury. Frolova and Khromykh haven’t shown consistency and their scores this far haven’t surpassed Ksenia even with mistakes. I guess Tsibinova has the junior minimums from Golden Spin so she is an option, but she would need to be added to the junior nationals entry list by the coaching council because she did cup events at the MS level this season - not KMS. I still think Ksenia has a good shot at jr worlds, unless Maya skates clean with her 4S.