2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Even with clean skates tomorrow for Sasha and Anna their marks will be just okay so Alyona may do just her usual clean.

Even having 115-120+ TES Sasha will not win against clean Alyona. Subjectiviness of PCS does the job.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I think Anna proved at RusNats that even if she is 10 points behind in the short, she doesn't need a superclean free to beat clean Alyona.
And at GPF, had Anna nailed that 4F she would have beaten Alyona as well.
Kostornaia can't win if Anna or Sasha is clean. We know that don't we?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Grace and elegance are not PCS categories so what does it matter anyway, neither is
a preconceived level of what constitutes "maturity" either come to think of it

They are alluded to in various PCS categories. https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...96-program-component-chart-id-sp-2019-20/file

Skating skills: use of deep edges, flow and glide, rhythmic knee action (Kostornaia easily outshines Trusova in all of these, and IMO about on par with Anna, although Anna's edges and ability to gain speed seem more effortless than Alexandra's)
Transitions: quality - it's not just difficult but also the way you transition movements from one to another -- Trusova's transitions are a bit staccato/mechanical whereas Alena's are way more seamless.
Performance: carriage and clarity of movement - this is the biggie in terms of grace and elegance -- a skater with clearer, finished movements (vs a skater "going through" the movements) is a more aesthetically pleasing performance to watch - hands down Alena is the best at this, way better than either Anna/Alexandra)
Choreography: movements match the phrasing - this is part of "grace" - your body lines and finessed movements/hands/legs that bring out the character of the music; of course, Alena's ice coverage is the best of the 3, too
Interpretation: no contest here either against Alena who is for sure the best interpreter of the three; note the part about use of finesse to reflect details and nuances in the music -- clearly Alena is the best at this, and Anna's not great yet, but she's getting there; Alexandra still looks like she's been given a program and told to perform this step and then this jump and then this spin and final pose... she hasn't got it to a point yet that it feels authentic (again, in my opinion). It's a very hard thing to do, deliver a competitive skate with tough jumps while also delivering elegance/grace.

Energy and immediacy is good, because it shows "physical/emotional involvement" (under the PE category) to the performance, but substance tends to do better than flash. Maturity is of course subjective, and not always desired depending on the music. A more playful, energetic program is fine to show a bit of spunk and scrappiness, but when you're trying to deliver classical music or doing Game of Thrones, I wish Trusova would lend more attention to extension, and taking a moment to finish her movements. It still looks rushed to me, like she's just getting through it.

 

[colormyworld240]

You have some good points, but I have to say that I fully agree with CanadianSkaterGuy above. Sasha looks so much more junior-ish to me compared to Anna/Alyona. She is a powerhouse, for sure, and that's what I love about her. But I've been following these three now for three years, and I think Sasha is falling behind when it comes to her artistic skating, footwork and spins. You can see that those elements are not something she trains very often. So, in a way, I think it has been all about the jumps for a while.
These losses she had at GPF and RusNats were good though. I think that motivates her more. I hope she finds the balance with her powerful jumps and the rest of the program. Did we see that balance today? I don't think so, but I hope to see it soon.

How do you know this? I'm curious as to who your source is? Because AFAIK, Sasha trains in Eteri's group just like all of her other skaters. Kamila in a press conference this season outlined their training regimen: how much time is spent on ice, in dance classes, choreography, etc. I'm quite sure Sasha, like all the other skaters there, have to do everything. Sasha is not some special snowflake that gets to jump all day while all the other skaters are in dance class, practicing footwork, spins, etc. They're all from the same group so it can be assumed they have very similar training schedules and are required to spend enough time working on every aspect of skating. They just have different strengths.

For example, last season you wouldn't say "you can see jumps are not something Alena trains very often" because she didn't have a 3A or quad yet. Also, when Alina was struggling with her jumps, no one said "you can see Alina isn't training her jumps often and she is only focusing on her spins" because her spins were better at the time. These athletes are not clones of each other; they have different body types, strengths, and weaknesses, and will not have the same ability even if they're working just as much as all the others.

 

[colormyworld240]

They are alluded to in various PCS categories. https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...96-program-component-chart-id-sp-2019-20/file

Skating skills: use of deep edges, flow and glide, rhythmic knee action (Kostornaia easily outshines Trusova in all of these, and IMO about on par with Anna, although Anna's edges and ability to gain speed seem more effortless than Alexandra's)
Transitions: quality - it's not just difficult but also the way you transition movements from one to another -- Trusova's transitions are a bit staccato/mechanical whereas Alena's are way more seamless.
Performance: carriage and clarity of movement - this is the biggie in terms of grace and elegance -- a skater with clearer, finished movements (vs a skater "going through" the movements) is a more aesthetically pleasing performance to watch - hands down Alena is the best at this, way better than either Anna/Alexandra)
Choreography: movements match the phrasing - this is part of "grace" - your body lines and finessed movements/hands/legs that bring out the character of the music; of course, Alena's ice coverage is the best of the 3, too
Interpretation: no contest here either against Alena who is for sure the best interpreter of the three; note the part about use of finesse to reflect details and nuances in the music -- clearly Alena is the best at this, and Anna's not great yet, but she's getting there; Alexandra still looks like she's been given a program and told to perform this step and then this jump and then this spin and final pose... she hasn't got it to a point yet that it feels authentic (again, in my opinion). It's a very hard thing to do, deliver a competitive skate with tough jumps while also delivering elegance/grace.

Energy and immediacy is good, because it shows "physical/emotional involvement" (under the PE category) to the performance, but substance tends to do better than flash. Maturity is of course subjective, and not always desired depending on the music. A more playful, energetic program is fine to show a bit of spunk and scrappiness, but when you're trying to deliver classical music or doing Game of Thrones, I wish Trusova would lend more attention to extension, and taking a moment to finish her movements. It still looks rushed to me, like she's just getting through it.

The highlighted parts have nothing to do with grace and elegance if you music isn't lyrical. For example, skaters who are doing jazz funk or hip-hop styled programs are not mean to be graceful nor elegant. Those styles call for sharper and "looser" movements. As for Anna clearly not being as good of a performer or not as musical, I'd like to ask you to point out a timestamp where she wasn't expressing the music/character or was off the music. Saying Anna's not great at interpretation like it's a fact? As someone who has studied music and dance my entire life, I think she has by far the best musical interpretation I've ever seen in a skater, along with Sasha Cohen. This has been echoed by many other posters as well, and Ted Barton has commented on Anna's musicality and expressiveness many times. OTOH I find that Alena is an example of someone with very good technique (skating skills, turnouts) who is just going through the motions. So not as much of a fact as you may think.

 

[PekkaRink]

Post SP press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UwGTTEEkY0

Alyona, please ... Anna and Aleksandra behave so much better, Anna is always serious, even Aleksandra pays more attention than you.

I agree. I love her skating so much but this is disrespectful (looks like she’s on her phone the whole time she isn’t addressed with questions).

However, I’ve spontaneously decided to go to Graz tomorrow - yaaay! it’s sold out but some poor woman had to resell her ticket online because she fell sick. I feel sorry for her but am sooo excited to see all these amazing skaters live (and hopefully also the famous potato field).

 

[Resa]

Am I the only one who thinks that Trusova has better SS than Shcherbakova?

No you're not. Sasha is actually very skilled. She may not have the deepest edges or the best flow, but I think she does the most complex and complicated choreo movements skating skills wise. It's just that it's easy to overlook those steps she does because the jumps take all the focus when watching her (at least for me - every time they do the slow mo replay afterwards I discover those movements of her that I completely missed before)

 

[Jontor]

How do you know this? I'm curious as to who your source is? Because AFAIK, Sasha trains in Eteri's group just like all of her other skaters. Kamila in a press conference this season outlined their training regimen: how much time is spent on ice, in dance classes, choreography, etc. I'm quite sure Sasha, like all the other skaters there, have to do everything. Sasha is not some special snowflake that gets to jump all day while all the other skaters are in dance class, practicing footwork, spins, etc. They're all from the same group so it can be assumed they have very similar training schedules and are required to spend enough time working on every aspect of skating. They just have different strengths.

For example, last season you wouldn't say "you can see jumps are not something Alena trains very often" because she didn't have a 3A or quad yet. Also, when Alina was struggling with her jumps, no one said "you can see Alina isn't training her jumps often and she is only focusing on her spins" because her spins were better at the time. These athletes are not clones of each other; they have different body types, strengths, and weaknesses, and will not have the same ability even if they're working just as much as all the others.

Of course I don't know this. This is my personal opinion. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
It's my thoughts on what I've seen the last couple of years following these three. I think Anna and Alyona has developed tremendously, and Sasha is falling behind.
That is my observation.

 

[colormyworld240]

Of course I don't know this. This is my personal opinion. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
It's my thoughts on what I've seen the last couple of years following these three. I think Anna and Alyona has developed tremendously, and Sasha is falling behind.
That is my observation.

Sure. But this doesn't mean Sasha isn't working on it as much as they are, as you seemed to imply. It could be that it comes more naturally to them, as quads (and triples) came more naturally to Sasha.

 

[Edwin]

Aleksandra got Level 4 on her steps sequence today, has this happened before?

 

[renebaebae]

I really liked Trusova's performance today. The axel was so high, shame she lost control on it although she still got generous GOE. I'm really liking her short program this season more than the long.

As usual, Anna's lutz wasn't called yet again, no surprise, the favoritism for her continues. anyway, the rest of her program was really good and her jumps looked very sure.

Alena has always been my fav of the 3 but recently I've been liking her a little less, I can't really place why, maybe her character idk. Her program today was nice as usual although her jumps seemed a little tighter esp the combo at the end.

Really excited for the free tmrw. I wonder if Trusova will really only jump 3 quads and if she does which will they be.

 

[Alex65]

Aleksandra got Level 4 on her steps sequence today, has this happened before?

For the first time this season, as I recall. Perhaps because it’s more difficult to get levels at such a crazy pace than if you slowly ride in the middle of the rink, “gracefully” waving your hands.

 

[Edwin]

Still, the new layout, slower pace and more attention to detail seem to suit Aleksandra.

When she gets her triksel stable, it will be a top scoring program. I wonder what is keeping her or her trainers to have it included. Aleksandra still not comfortable and assured in jumping 3A? From her program analysis of late I learned that edge jumps aren't her forte.

6 weeks to World Championships, after first going Dracarys on the ice tomorrow ....

Does Aleksandra dream of victories tonight?

 

[Jontor]

Post SP press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UwGTTEEkY0

Alyona, please ... Anna and Aleksandra behave so much better, Anna is always serious, even Aleksandra pays more attention than you.

Yes, Alyona has some serious diva moves going on there. LOL.
Seriously though, I think she's on the phone. We've seen this a few times now. She is a phonoholic?

 

[Jontor]

Sure. But this doesn't mean Sasha isn't working on it as much as they are, as you seemed to imply. It could be that it comes more naturally to them, as quads (and triples) came more naturally to Sasha.

Of course. You may be right. That was just my conclusion and suspicion that she is not working as much on other elements. That might not be the case.

 

[Jontor]

Aleksandra got Level 4 on her steps sequence today, has this happened before?

She got level 4 at Nepela and Rostelecom (both long and short). At Skate Canada short she only had level 2.

 

[Jontor]

I really liked Trusova's performance today. The axel was so high, shame she lost control on it although she still got generous GOE. I'm really liking her short program this season more than the long.

As usual, Anna's lutz wasn't called yet again, no surprise, the favoritism for her continues. anyway, the rest of her program was really good and her jumps looked very sure.

Alena has always been my fav of the 3 but recently I've been liking her a little less, I can't really place why, maybe her character idk. Her program today was nice as usual although her jumps seemed a little tighter esp the combo at the end.

Really excited for the free tmrw. I wonder if Trusova will really only jump 3 quads and if she does which will they be.

Judging by the pratice rounds she will only do the 4Lz and 4T+3T and 4T+Eu+3S.
She is replacing her 4F with a 2A. With a GOE+3 that means she is lowering her scoring potential with 10.01 points.
If this is the layout, I think it's the right way to go. I suspect her other elements will be much better with less quads in the program.

 

[icybear]

So now we've reached the point where Alena's skating skill and artistry is now deemed to be only a measly 1.60 higher pcs than Alexandra. As much as Alexandra has improved her SP, her skating skill is still not pleasant looking and the quality in movement between them is miles difference than a mere 1.6 better.

 

[Alex65]

So now we've reached the point where Alena's skating skill and artistry is now deemed to be only a measly 1.60 higher pcs than Alexandra. As much as Alexandra has improved her SP, her skating skill is still not pleasant looking and the quality in movement between them is miles difference than a mere 1.6 better.

Miles - is how much?

 

[Jontor]

Miles - is how much?

1 mile = 1.6 kilometers

But as he said miles, we can conclude he means more than one.
So there is quite a distance between them

So if 1.6 PCS points is a mile which is 1.6 kilometers, then 1 PCS must be 1 kilometer!

 

[icybear]

Miles - is how much?

At least 3 points