2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Deripashka]

Maybe her injury isnt so much painful, but simply dont allow another overloading some joints or bones due to possible damage.
I just rewatch her test skates from 2019 and...Im just sad from this situation and hope she will find partner asap, because I want to see her beautiful soft skating again.
btw its possible for skater to learn to jump from another leg?

 

[macy]

Maybe her injury isnt so much painful, but simply dont allow another overloading some joints or bones due to possible damage.
I just rewatch her test skates from 2019 and...Im just sad from this situation and hope she will find partner asap, because I want to see her beautiful soft skating again.
btw its possible for skater to learn to jump from another leg?

no, not at this stage in her career. it's like writing with your non dominant hand, but more dangerous and much more complicated. i've heard Satoko was forced to jump the opposite way of what was natural for her when she was first learning to skate, but that is way different than trying to change it when you've mastered all jumps at least through 3lz. it would be like starting over again.

 

[halulupu]

I have been thinking about Kanysheva‘s situation ever since I‘ve heard of the news and honestly, the conclusion I‘ve come to is nothing short of depressing. Imo, Alena was failed utterly and thoroughly by the people in charge of her. Why?

Well, if we take her word for the date of the injury, and this happened in November 2018, then...

1. She most likely hid the injury and kept training regularly in Panova‘s team (as Anna Kuzmenko‘s mum wrote on Instagram that no one in the team knew about it). This means that, first of all, no one in Panova‘s team noticed a severely injured athlete for several months (or deliberately ignored it which is even worse) AND let her compete at multiple events she could have withdrawn from. Then, of course, she moved to Eteri and, as we all know, started to train a quad there. Whether she wanted to and the coaches just let her do it, is completely irrelevant. Fact is that she was training a highly dangerous element on a body that had not yet had the time to recover and no one stopped her. No coaches, no parents.

2. Panova knew about the injury and still let her compete.


I do not even want to get into the possibility that the date she mentioned wasn‘t correct and she’s trying (or made) to save someone’s reputation as my main point stands anyway:

Athletes drop out all the time. Not everybody - in fact, most - do not make it to the top of their sport. But in this case we have a 14 year old teenager who was seriously injured and should not have been in the state to either participate in multiple events or train ultra c elements. The move to withdraw her was made way too late and the damage was already done by then.


I can only say that, right now, I‘m thoroughly disappointed. I hope that Alena will look back at her career as a singles skater and not feel bitterness because honestly, I, as a fan, can say that I am right now. Hopefully, her “dream“ of landing a jump for an Instagram video was worth all this... (and no, don‘t tell me that an athlete who‘s given up everything to their sport only dreams of landing a specific element not even during a competition)

Imo, her injury was managed wrongly from the very beginning and, for me at least, there will always be the ”what could have been if...?“ I wish her all the best and hope she succeeds as an Ice Dancer. She deserves it. This is the only thing that makes me feel slightly better. At least she will not leave the sport altogether.


Good luck, Alena!!

Well,I don't agree with your analysis that panova is mostly to blame. She last trained under eteri and she trained quads(!)with an injury

 

[klena]

One of my favourite programs of the season

Nugumanova's short

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Uzqzikq7k


Who is the handsome coach by her side?

This is Roman Usatov, he is of the Rukavitsyn Team

 

[Fluture]

Well,I don't agree with your analysis that panova is mostly to blame. She last trained under eteri and she trained quads(!)with an injury

No, no, no, we must have misunderstood each other here. My point was not that Panova was mostly to blame. There is no “most“ in this case because I cannot judge that far. But I can judge, based on the timeline Alena herself offered and what we know so far, that ALL adults in this case let her down. Severely. Yes, there is Eteri under whom she trained quads with an injury. I don‘t think we need to mention how incredibly risky and downright dangerous that was, both to her long and short-time health. There is no way to state that differently. How “light“ the injury seemed to be is absolutely no excuse, if there‘s risk of a not properly diagnosed injury, you don‘t just go and do some quads, especially not when it was the start of the off-season and there was absolutely NO rush. But it’s not like Eteri was the only one who failed Alena here.

Where was Panova when Alena trained under her and went to often unnecessary junior competitions injured? (Again, that‘s according to the timeline she mentioned) Or her parents? There‘s always more than one to blame and I don‘t think we can pinpoint Eteri to be “the one and only to end her career“. It was most likely a combination of unlucky events, an ambitious fourteen year old not quite knowing the health detriments she was putting herself through and the adults in her life failing to stop her from potentially dangerous behavior (or actively encouraging her, I don‘t know. I do hope it‘s the former. That would be bad but not as bad)

Like I said. I wish all the best to Alena. In the end, we don‘t quite know what happened but I do know that she deserves to be happy. Thus, I hope she recovers completely and manages to have plenty of success in ice dance.

 

[Alex65]

Meanwhile, 4 quads landed in the last group at the Moscow Cup + one 3A. Zhilina 4Т already now looks like a real quad, like Sasha’s.

 

[Vilord]

It's such a shame to hear about Kanysheva, she really had great jumps....

On another note, I wonder if this increases the chance of Tarakanova moving to seniors next season. It seems like she and Sinitsyna will, at least? They seem like the most promising of those age-eligible, unless I'm missing someone.

Like everyone else I agree sad about Aliona K2 but sometimes these things happen and I wish her well in dance.

I Made a guess a whila ago about senior GPs for next season and Sinistyna should be a lock for them with high SB and a good place at Nats. Tarakanova as well as Vasilieva should have a reasonable chance to get one but since both missed Nats its hard to say how they stand compared to other Seniors that would then have one of their spots sacrificed. Here Im mainly thinking of Konstantinova and Samodurova that hasnt had the best results this season but are high in WS and will probably get a spot through there.

Also if one of the more seasoned seniors would choose to retire (Im not saying they should but figure skating is hard and sometime enough is enough) That would open up spots for new seniors like Tarakanova, Vasilieva and possibly also Frolova who I think have greatly improved throughout the season

 

[Edwin]

Meanwhile, 4 quads landed in the last group at the Moscow Cup + one 3A. Zhilina 4Т already now looks like a real quad, like Sasha’s.

And a broken pinky toe didn’t hamper little Veronika in jumping big ;-)

 

[halulupu]

No, no, no, we must have misunderstood each other here. My point was not that Panova was mostly to blame. There is no “most“ in this case because I cannot judge that far. But I can judge, based on the timeline Alena herself offered and what we know so far, that ALL adults in this case let her down. Severely. Yes, there is Eteri under whom she trained quads with an injury. I don‘t think we need to mention how incredibly risky and downright dangerous that was, both to her long and short-time health. There is no way to state that differently. How “light“ the injury seemed to be is absolutely no excuse, if there‘s risk of a not properly diagnosed injury, you don‘t just go and do some quads, especially not when it was the start of the off-season and there was absolutely NO rush. But it’s not like Eteri was the only one who failed Alena here.

Where was Panova when Alena trained under her and went to often unnecessary junior competitions injured? (Again, that‘s according to the timeline she mentioned) Or her parents? There‘s always more than one to blame and I don‘t think we can pinpoint Eteri to be “the one and only to end her career“. It was most likely a combination of unlucky events, an ambitious fourteen year old not quite knowing the health detriments she was putting herself through and the adults in her life failing to stop her from potentially dangerous behavior (or actively encouraging her, I don‘t know. I do hope it‘s the former. That would be bad but not as bad)

Like I said. I wish all the best to Alena. In the end, we don‘t quite know what happened but I do know that she deserves to be happy. Thus, I hope she recovers completely and manages to have plenty of success in ice dance.

Ok, thank you for explaining! This sounds much more balanced and I can agree with you.

 

[Decoder]

And a broken pinky toe didn’t hamper little Veronika in jumping big ;-)

Brave Veronika! I am sure the pinky toe is in good shape now and her jumping 4T was approved by the coaches and parents. Really love watching her! :luv17:

 

[Artemisa]

Meanwhile, 4 quads landed in the last group at the Moscow Cup + one 3A. Zhilina 4Т already now looks like a real quad, like Sasha’s.

So how many russian ladies or juniors or novices have right now a 3A or a 4 ?

 

[BabySloth]

When is the World team announcement? Any info?

 

[karina17]

So how many russian ladies or juniors or novices have right now a 3A or a 4 ?

As far as I know (I'm probably missing someone, I'm thinking of this one blonde girl who's quite unknown and had a video of her landing a 3A over the summer, but I don't know her name):

Seniors

Trusova
In Competition: 4Lz, 4F, 4S, 4T
In Practice: 3A

Shcherbakova
In Competition: 4Lz, 4F
In Practice: 4T, 3A (fall?)

Kostornaya:
In Competition: 3A
In Practice: 4S (rumour?)

Tuktamysheva:
In Competition: 3A
In Practice: 4T, 4S (fall?)

Gulyakova:
In Practice: 3A

Samodurova:
In Practice: 3A (under?)


Juniors

Valieva:
In Competition: 4T

Kisel:
In Competition: 3A

(See this space? This is where I put in Kanysheva and had to delete it. Now I'm just sad.)

Khromykh:
In Practice: 4S

Sinitsyna:
In Practice: 3A (under?)

Kadyrova:
In Practice: 4S (under?)


Novices

Akatieva:
In Competition: 4T, 3A

Zhilina:
In Competition: 4T
In Practice: 4S

Berestovskaya:
In Competition: 4T

Samodelkina:
In Competition: 3A

Dmitrieva:
In Competition: 3A<<

 

[Good Vibes Only]

When is the World team announcement? Any info?

Apparently in an interview Sasha said that the 3A are going to worlds

 

[katymay]

So how many russian ladies or juniors or novices have right now a 3A or a 4 ?

Not sure how many of the Novice girls I watched today have a 3A, but it is only a matter of time. Most of those I watched today have strong jumps and mature skating skills. It is almost a shock when they are waiting for their scores-the camera zooms in-and OMG-they are only babies! I'm amazed that any country can have so many little girls (and little boys!) who can skate at this level.

 

[Edwin]

Veronika Zhilina posted the highest FS score of 137.38 today in the Moscow Cup in girls of Older Age.
Sof'ya Samodelkina posted 136.57 with a time penalty?
Yelizaveta Berestovskaya 136.20
Sof'ya Akat'yeva 130.62
Adeliya Petrosyan 129.93

Again, we got live reviews of jumps and elements directly in the stream.

You can add Varvara Kisel (2006) to the juniors with competed 3A solo and 3A-2T combination.

 

[nussnacker]

How “light“ the injury seemed to be is absolutely no excuse, if there‘s risk of a not properly diagnosed injury, you don‘t just go and do some quads, especially not when it was the start of the off-season and there was absolutely NO rush.
.

The problem is that unfortunately no one can ever know, whether there was or wasn't a risk of misdiagnosis, especially at the time.
Doctors I'm sure try their best, but some cases can be puzzling and complicated, and I don't think doctors just told Aliona that there's a risk of misdiagnosis.
They probably acted like all doctors would and diagnosed her based on the information available at the time, and it turned out to be something else in the end.
I also don't think one can say coaches or parents should not be entrusting their kid to medical professionals, whether there is or isn't a risk of them not doing a proper diagnosis, they probably listened to recommendations given by doctors at the time, and it's the only choice they had.

I have certainly been a victim of improper diagnosis. But in my case it didn't cost me anything fortunately, for athletes it's far more crucial.
It's frustrating and painful, but I think it's just part of our lives, not every doctor is an all-knowing magician...

It's quite telling that since she went to a clinic in a different city, probably they have been to a lot of doctors in Moscow before that and no one managed to resolve her issue for over a year.

It's unfortunate, but I don't personally think that this is a case of adult negligence.

 

[Fluture]

[...]The problem is that unfortunately no one can ever know, whether there was or wasn't a risk of misdiagnosis, especially at the time. [...]

I‘m well aware of that but thank you for pointing out that misdiagnoses happen. They do, for sure. My point, however, was that you should not let a 14 year old athlete compete continuously (as did Panova) or, even worse, have them train highly dangerous and risky elements - the longtime effects of which are still not known - when they are known to be injured (as did Eteri). The athlete in question was a first year junior skater, no Olympics, Worlds, senior Nationals on the line. It would have been perfectly possible for Alena to skip a few of the local and minor competitions she did from November 2018 to the end of the season. It would also have been perfectly possible for her NOT to train a quad on an either injured or still recovering body. There was the whole summer ahead but they pushed the quad in spring. Why? To publish a video on instagram?

Besides, we have to remember that we‘re not even talking about the one attempt we saw on Instagram. To get to the point where you land a new element like that you first have to fall and fall a lot. I repeat: On the very least on a still recovering body.

Misdiagnoses happen but so does careless, downright dangerous behavior by adults and coaches. In this case, it ended up in a 14 year old unable to jump.

I do not know all the details and I‘m sure you‘re going to remind me of that. But based on what has been made public, I can judge, and I‘m not impressed, to say the least. In fact, I‘m outright disappointed. I also know that something like this happens all the time in elite sports - promising young athletes having to drop out because of injury. Here my question, however, is whether that could have been avoided. And in my opinion at least, things could have been different if this injury had been handled differently as well.

I realise that this whole ”what if?“ scenario is pointless right now, it will not change anything for Alena, she will be as injured as before. But I do think that if the mismanagement by the coaches in question is pointed out, it might help athletes in the future.

 

[Fluture]

On a more positive note, here is Sasha‘s post Europeans post. Looks like the 3A got to have some fun. Nice to see.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B78-29DoT13/?igshid=amv6fbl1ww4r

 

[nussnacker]

I‘m well aware of that but thank you for pointing out that misdiagnoses happen. They do, for sure. My point, however, was that you should not let a 14 year old athlete compete continuously (as did Panova) or, even worse, have them train highly dangerous and risky elements - the longtime effects of which are still not known - when they are known to be injured (as did Eteri). The athlete in question was a first year junior skater, no Olympics, Worlds, senior Nationals on the line. It would have been perfectly possible for Alena to skip a few of the local and minor competitions she did from November 2018 to the end of the season. It would also have been perfectly possible for her NOT to train a quad on an either injured or still recovering body. There was the whole summer ahead but they pushed the quad in spring. Why? To publish a video on instagram?

Besides, we have to remember that we‘re not even talking about the one attempt we saw on Instagram. To get to the point where you land a new element like that you first have to fall and fall a lot. I repeat: On the very least on a still recovering body.

Misdiagnoses happen but so does careless, downright dangerous behavior by adults and coaches. In this case, it ended up in a 14 year old unable to jump.

I do not know all the details and I‘m sure you‘re going to remind me of that. But based on what has been made public, I can judge, and I‘m not impressed, to say the least. In fact, I‘m outright disappointed. I also know that something like this happens all the time in elite sports - promising young athletes having to drop out because of injury. Here my question, however, is whether that could have been avoided. And in my opinion at least, things could have been different if this injury had been handled differently as well.

I realise that this whole ”what if?“ scenario is pointless right now, it will not change anything for Alena, she will be as injured as before. But I do think that if the mismanagement by the coaches in question is pointed out, it might help athletes in the future.

Nah, you did not get what I’m trying to say.

So... if for example doctor says “Analyses came all right, there’s nothing on the x ray, it’s probably just sore muscles, massage them more, just keep skating”, Aliona, her parents should’ve just decided not to do that?
If doctors say “You’re good to go”, should Panova/Eteri just have decided suddenly that she knows better?

I’m not sure you actually tried to put yourself in that situation, let alone not sure whether you’ve actually been in a situation like that. Things like that unfortunately happen.

Besides, Eteri said that every new jump is discussed with parents in advance, to make sure they allow the kid to learn that jump. I’m sure Panova does the same thing. Those things aren’t unsupervised.
Something tells me, if her parents knew that learning news jumps will do her any bad, they would’ve not have gone for it first learning a quad with Panova, and then continuing to do that with Tutberidze.

I just think the assumption of adults, including 2 parents, 2 coaching teams (!) that include several coaches, medical professionals within those team added to that, all being just ignorant, reckless and stupid is a little much.