2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[KOBOT37]

It's very simple:

any top 10 skater (and probably top 20 skater) should be at worlds,period. If a country has 10 athlete in top 20, every one of these 10 should go.

That leaves us with 20 spots.

ISU can hold a season long competition for these 20 spots, with a simple rule: no country will be allowed to get more than 1 spots at worlds from here, so if, say 10 Russians qualify in bottom 20, only best of them+ whoever is in top 20 goes to the worlds

This system can ensure that: case of Liza will never repeat and small federations also will have representatives at worlds.

Lets count, how many 'skating countries' are in the world? Russia, China, Usa,Canada,Japan, S.Korea,France and Italy if we are very generous. That is atleast 12 spots at worlds for small federations, if there is a diamond like Javier Fernandes,s/he will surely manage to get one of these 12 spots and be at worlds.

 

[flanker]

I'm good with three per country. I don't think any country should have 4 or 5 chances at sweeping the podium. There are three medals, and if you have a deep field you have three good shots at getting them. In recent years, Russia has only gotten three women in the top 6 once (2016) and it's not very often that they leave someone in medal-winning form at home (although arguably they did this year and last year).

It's not about "medal sweeping", it's also not about whether it is precisely Russia those days or any other country in the different times, it should be always about that the best should be competing at the top competitions, no matter the country they are coming from.

 

[Edwin]

Just enjoy Russian Nationals in Junior and Senior for what they are: displays of the best, strongest and most innovative figure skating.

This afternoon, many young boys and girls will make their first appearances on the national broadcaster, and thanks to its generosity in providing a life stream, to the whole world.

The kids were told to take it as just another competition, but for us fans it allows us to glance into the future of where the sport will be in just a couple of years time.

Any nation can apply itself to create specialised sports schools for children and youths, but most governments elected by tax payers don't care.

Hence, Russia's dominance in artistic coordination sports will continue as long as its government sees fit.

 

[KOBOT37]

Regarding to 'equality'...

Some people are born talented some are not, some people have rich parents and some don't, some people can smoke,drink, do drugs and live to 100 and some can't reach that age even with most healthy lifestyle possible, some happened to be at a right place at a right time and some don't etc etc etc, So I think we need to cancel life to make it fair.

I really, really miss times when term 'equality' meant simply 'equal before the law'

 

[Fluture]

Small countries (in figure skating) have brought us Fernandez and Yuna Kim (who singlehandedly made figure skating a popular sport and resulted in the many talented South Korean skaters that have been competing with and beating the Russian ladies) and Carolina Kostner.

I remember the oh so confident talks about all “ex-Russians“ rounding out the top 5 at Euros, how it would be the 3A and then Safonova and Kurakova and so on. Who did actually make the top 6 or so in the end? Alexia Paganini, Emmi Peltonen, Ryabova (true here) and Eva-Lotta Kiibus. And some of them had the performance of the night. (Looking at Eva-Lotta)

I love the Russian ladies as much as you do but some of the comments here are degrading and insulting, period. Looks like you’ve all forgotten the times when the Russian ladies themselves weren‘t as dominant as they are now. Which isn‘t too long ago, btw. Would you all have argued for the US to get 10 spots when they dominated the sport? I would very much be in favor of giving a pass to the defending medalists and the Euros, GPF and 4CC champ for example. That‘s 6, usually, so another warm-up - which the ISU would never want but could, in theory, be possible. The only way I could see this actually work, however, was if we cut the first group. Is that fair, though? I‘m not sure at all.

I do think it would make sense to revise the quotas and TES minimum in general. But a system where a dominating country has half of the participants at Worlds is just not sustainable and in fact, downright ridiculous. It‘s the WORLD Championship.

And yes, actually, we need skaters from smaller countries, even if they aren‘t technically on the level as others. They can develop interest in the sport in their country after all and watching them is often a lot of fun! They have energy and enthusiasm and are happy to be competing.

 

[flanker]

Small countries (in figure skating) have brought us Fernandez and Yuna Kim (who singlehandedly made figure skating a popular sport and resulted in the many talented South Korean skaters that have been competing with and beating the Russian ladies) and Carolina Kostner.

I remember the oh so confident talks about all “ex-Russians“ rounding out the top 5 at Euros, how it would be the 3A and then Safonova and Kurakova and so on. Who did actually make the top 6 or so in the end? Alexia Paganini, Emmi Peltonen, Ryabova (true here) and Eva-Lotta Kiibus. And some of them had the performance of the night. (Looking at Eva-Lotta)

I love the Russian ladies as much as you do but some of the comments here are degrading and insulting, period. Looks like you’ve all forgotten the times when the Russian ladies themselves weren‘t as dominant as they are now. Which isn‘t too long ago, btw. Would you all have argued for the US to get 10 spots when they dominated the sport? I would very much be in favor of giving a pass to the defending medalists and the Euros, GPF and 4CC champ for example. That‘s 6, usually, so another warm-up - which the ISU would never want but could, in theory, be possible. The only way I could see this actually work, however, was if we cut the first group. Is that fair, though? I‘m not sure at all.

I do think it would make sense to revise the quotas and TES minimum in general. But a system where a dominating country has half of the participants at Worlds is just not sustainable and in fact, downright ridiculous. It‘s the WORLD Championship.

And yes, actually, we need skaters from smaller countries, even if they aren‘t technically on the level as others. They can develop interest in the sport in their country after all and watching them is often a lot of fun! They have energy and enthusiasm and are happy to be competing.

The proposals some of us made here would not prevent skaters from smaller countries to attend "world championship". They cal allways have at least one spot. It would not prevent Javi or anybody else to show us what he can do. It's complete misunderstanding or intentional twisting of what was written here. But just like one swallow doesn't make the spring, one Javi doesn't make three spanish top skaters to fulfill all quotas. He retired and there's nobody to take his place at this time. He didn't cause massive spring of spanish talents flooding top figure skating competitions. It's the difference when a country produces one undeniable talent per century and when there are countries producing five talents per year.

As for the matter of the "russian ladies" - it's not precisely about the russian ladiers, it's about anybody who could send 10 skaters better than most of what the other coutries can send. I don't care if there will be 10 russian, US or japanese ladeis in the worlds as long as there will be the best of all.

Also, the fact that ex-russians didn't take all top places? It was precisely explained here:

I think what we're seeing currently is Russian ladies who are "lucky" to be good skaters but not quite good enough for the Russian Federation to see them as threats; they are released to switch to other countries. By doing so, they are more "guaranteed" spots at major competitions as they are the top skater of that country. Meanwhile we have skaters are are "unlucky" to be good enough that RusFed doesn't want to risk releasing them, but not quite good enough to take one of the 3 spots on the team. All these skaters are Russian and have been competing against each other since the beginning of their careers under the same federation, but it seems that making the world team is not dependent on ability, but rather which of those categories they fall under. This phenomenon is more prominent in Russian ladies, but is this also the case for other nationalities?

Also, those ex-russians who skated at EC were mostly skaters with little to zero experience from big competitions, even on junior level. They have plenty of time to improve.

And, Eva Lotta-Kiibus is trained by former soviet worlds silver medalist, so I feel strong "russian trace" in this young jedi-er, I mean lady

 

[Fluture]

The proposals some of us made here would not prevent skaters from smaller countries to attend "world championship". They cal allways have at least one spot. It would not prevent Javi or anybody else to show us what he can do. It's complete misunderstanding or intentional twisting of what was written here. But just like one swallow doesn't make the spring, one Javi doesn't make three spanish top skaters to fulfill all quotas. He retired and there's nobody to take his place at this time. He didn't cause massive spring of spanish talents flooding top figure skating competitions. It's the difference when a country produces one undeniable talent per century and when there are countries producing five talents per year.

As for the matter of the "russian ladies" - it's not precisely about the russian ladiers, it's about anybody who could send 10 skaters better than most of what the other coutries can send. I don't care if there will be 10 russian, US or japanese ladeis in the worlds as long as there will be the best of all.

Also, the fact that ex-russians didn't take all top places? It was precisely explained here:

But most small countries only have one spot anyway unless they earn another one? I do agree that we might want to change the system to earn quotas (someone proposed two skaters having to make the top 10 for three spots which makes sense) so that we don‘t end up with Kazakhstan having 3 spot with no skater to send. That‘s true but it doesn‘t solve the problem of there being too many Russian ladies for not enough spots. The comments I objected to were the ones rudely asking whether anyone was even interested in watching skaters from these countries at all, saying it was as interesting as watching skaters from Mars. If that isn’t disrespectful, I don‘t know what is.

 

[flanker]

But most small countries only have one spot anyway unless they earn another one? I do agree that we might want to change the system to earn quotas (someone proposed two skaters having to make the top 10 for three spots which makes sense) so that we don‘t end up with Kazakhstan having 3 spot with no skater to send. That‘s true but it doesn‘t solve the problem of there being too many Russian ladies for not enough spots. The comments I objected to were the ones rudely asking whether anyone was even interested in watching skaters from these countries at all, saying it was as interesting as watching skaters from Mars. If that isn’t disrespectful, I don‘t know what is.

As disrespectful it may sound to you, it is true. I don't believe I would find many people interested in figure skating in those countries. When India, a country with a populatin 1+ billion people has like 2 skaters and three fans, it says that not very much people are interested in skating there (and still even those two skaters would have opportunity to qualify, but let's not pretend that India should have the same influence in figure skating as Italy).

To be honest, there is not many people interested in figure skating in my country. It was different once but the today's reality is such.

I think that system where let's say first 20 spots would be taken by some system of qualification no matter the country (whether it would depend on world standings or on some system of qualifiation competitions - like transformed GP is not important now) and the rest would be assigned to the countries that do not have any qualified skater coud satisfy both sides. Countries with more than three top skaters could have more spots and the rest would still have at least one entry.

 

[KOBOT37]

Your interests are your choices.

I do not care what is nationality of an Elite athlete, Russian,American or Algerian, Elite Athletes should be at worlds. Yes, If American had 10 skaters in top 20, they should be there, all of them.

Obviously,small nations must have spots too, but not over half of the spots. 1/3 is just fine. Sport isn't going to gain popularity from somebody from non skating nation finishing near the end of ranking table and if diamonds like Javier Fernandez come along from small feds, they will easily get one of that 1/3 of spots.

 

[McBibus]

Yeah or alternatively they could allow 4 or 5 spots for top performing countries at the previous Worlds. Like if to get 3 spots you must have 2 skaters' placements add up to 13 (?), then you could do 9 for 4 spots and 6 for 5 spots. It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever that you could potentially have every GPF qualifier be from the same country but only 3 at max can compete at Worlds? This does nothing for the sport.

Also I can't remember if this is still the case but it's weird that 1 great skater can win 3 spots for their country by placing 1st or 2nd (assuming they are the only one from their country competing). Like 2 spots I'd understand, but 3's a little much.

It's evident to anybody but ISU that, even with the current system, the 3rd skater should be qualified by the 2nd best result and not from the 1st.
Take this year men EU with Morisi 3rd (2 more georgians) and Daniel and Matteo 4th and 5th for Italy that will not bring another fellow skater.

To me is easy:
1 top 10 and you reserve a spot for a 2nd countryman
2 top 10 and you reserve a spot for a 3rd
3 top 10 with at least one on the podium and you get a 4rth spot.

That without changing the system (because it won't change I'm resigned to that)

Title defender + 10 spots to the best skaters (Gran Prix qualification, International Season Best, the system actually used to define SP groups, whatever ISU wants) + 1 per country would be best but I think it's dreaming.
Maybe 2 spots for who don't have a whitelisted skater and 2nd best skater scored a given total (not just TES) in international competitions in the last year.

 

[NaVi]

Starting right now: Ladies. Short Program. 2020 Russian Junior Figure Skating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdd4ZZxPYM

 

[Scott512]

They will have to do it sooner or later. It will inevitably happen. Technology advances and presentations are increasingly contrasted with the refereeing of dinosaurs. This is how to get planes and tanks in the era of Ancient Rome and biblical heroes.
And yes. The world champion must be entitled to defend the title no matter what. If he cannot or does not want to, this is another matter. It is in almost every sport. It is so obvious that it is surprising that this is not in the FS.

It's just so much common sense so easy to figure out to give the defending champion the opportunity a wild-card if you will to defend their title. The sport would be much better for it and it isn't even asking a lot to do just that. It would hardly change anything. But whatever Medvedeva is in the world standings I think she's like number five that's like going to the number 5 tennis player or golfer and saying you can't perform in the biggest ornaments of the year. It would be ridiculous. But it's accepted in figure skating which is in the dark ages thanks to the ISU.

Figure skating needs younger judges. I'm not saying college-age judges but how about people in their 30s?

 

[klena]

Starting right now: Ladies. Short Program. 2020 Russian Junior Figure Skating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdd4ZZxPYM

Just finished. It was great! “Beautiful, amazing, incredible, unbelievable” Tad (c)

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I thought Sofia Muravieva was with Eteri. I didn’t see a coach with her?

 

[KOBOT37]

Well, 2 tickets to worlds seems to be pretty much decided unless some major Upset: Valieva and Usacheva.

While tough battle is expected for 3rd.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Starting right now: Ladies. Short Program. 2020 Russian Junior Figure Skating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdd4ZZxPYM

Eteri's young one with the spins reminds me so much of Alina.

 

[BabySloth]

Well, 2 tickets to worlds seems to be pretty much decided unless some major Upset: Valieva and Usacheva.

While tough battle is expected for 3rd.

Who is eligible for Junior Worlds other than Daria and Kamila in the top 10?
It's a shame that Kseniia Sinitsyna is so inconsistent...

 

[Mawwerg]

It was great SP!:hap85:

 

[Edwin]

Who is eligible for Junior Worlds other than Daria and Kamila in the top 10?
It's a shame that Kseniia Sinitsyna is so inconsistent...

Who are in contention? Vasil'yeva, Tarakanova still injured/not fully recovered?
Frolova not quite good enough?
Khromykh not quite good enough/inconsistent?
Sinityna seems the most likely candidate, but has proven inconsistent yet again.

To keep things simple, Khromykh should accompany her rink mates, but there are many candidates for Bronze ....

 

[KOBOT37]

Who is eligible for Junior Worlds other than Daria and Kamila in the top 10?
It's a shame that Kseniia Sinitsyna is so inconsistent...

Kromykh, Muravieva, Frolova and Moroz (14 years old AFAIK) should be eligible, No idea about Osokina.