2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[katymay]

Where does information about her supposed „whopping“ cut come from?
she takes the same rate as everyone else, 30%. And those percents from all the prize money aren’t really a substantial amount, when divided in between 3 main coaches, it gets to 1000$/month for each of them. thats the amount calculated last year at least. Barely a good motivation to make champions.
If she was in it for the money(that’s how I understood your „whopping“ comment), she would’ve established herself a private school, like the one Plushenko has, long time ago, there she could charge per hour and earn a lot more. Or work in shows.
Daniil said long time ago, that he had to let go off his comfortable lifestyle and earnings from shows to be a coach.
she has built her success from the very bottom, and I just hate that the rare success story like hers gets littered with these things on whether or not she’s in it for the money. If money’s her main motivation, she sure is using the most hard and difficult way to earn a lot less than she could.

According to TSL, Eteri takes a much bigger cut then is the norm. I think they said 40 or 45%? Also according to TSL-this was the major sticking point with Shoma Uno.

 

[Tolstoj]

According to TSL, Eteri takes a much bigger cut then is the norm. I think they said 40 or 45%? Also according to TSL-this was the major sticking point with Shoma Uno.

I remember reading from a Japanese news website that Shoma wanted to keep his programs choreographed by whoever he wants (kinda like what Carolina did when she moved to Mishin keeping Lori Nichol as the choreographer), while Eteri wanted more control on that, and probably would have given to him the usual in-house Daniil work.

 

[Fluture]

I'm just joking around with flanker about the 'Rules of Evidence' and standards of proof because he is an attorney. No harm meant.

It was literally 48 hours ago that my feet were being held to the fire about the way I was posting by a few posters here. Rightly so. But it was just amusing to see how quickly everything went right back to the way things have always been. We can speculate, conjecture, assume, have opinions, make guesses about whatever we want. Within the rules.

I also realized more clearly that there are real people with real feelings that get hurt by the words that are posted in this forum. (including me) I am going to make an effort to take that into consideration. And definitely not to post when I am angry or get my feelings hurt.

I will hereby cease and desist from snark. (For now at least.)

I‘m sorry, I must have misunderstood the joke then and apologize. But after the many pages of bickering - and yes, snark - I did eventually read (maybe I shouldn‘t have but what has ever stopped a curious figure skating fan?) I was not exactly looking forward to having this discussion here again.

I do have to say that I personally don‘t think your feet were being held to the fire in any way but I still understand if it feels that way. This thread is stressful a lot. Overall, there was disagreement about some of the sources provided and in my opinion, this happens.

Between the two cases... the difference to what is happening right now with Sasha is that while we have TONS of speculations, there are eventually official sources following, to either deny or ratify the claims. As for the other topic - well, “48 hours ago“ and to this day, all we have is a bunch of claims by unknown twitter users. I think you‘ll see where the difference lies even if you don‘t agree with me. Which is fine!

Lastly, there will always be speculations and rumours. That‘s not even as much of a problem considering we‘re talking about professional athletes who are in the spotlight. (it’s not like I don’t have many questions about the “48 hours debacle“ - kind of like that name - either for example. It‘s also not like I think there‘s no reason for valid criticism) The problem only starts when these speculations are spiraling out of control and lead to something bigger and more malicious. (not saying necessarily from you but spoken overall)

There have been a few disrespectful comments about Sasha but so far I‘m pleased to see there‘s mostly support if slight questioning of her coaching choice. Imo, I hope it stays that way.

I also think your fave has been subject to honest mistakes leading to a way bigger drama (like the car situation for example) so I think we‘re kind of in a similar position somewhat. It all dies down when the new bigger drama arrives. That‘s figure skating.

Thanks for your post, still. I do think we‘re going to have to agree to disagree on a few subjects and that‘s alright. I just didn’t want to have your post unanswered lol.

 

[flanker]

Does anyone have any idea where the Usacheva/Samsonov (and apparently Dudakov?) rumors are coming from? I can't really discredit any rumors because the Sasha thing has been sort of a rumor for months, and the Zhilina thing originated as a rumor (heck, a lot of things have first come out as rumors), but I'm just so curious if these are true.

As for Dudakov, if it somehow won't turn to be true (which would overcome all the sensations we've seen for several seasons), I guess someone just mistook one Sergei for the other. After all, Rozanov isn't known that well (it is not so long ago when I had to explain to someone here in thei thread who he is). As for the others I have no idea about the sources and about the probability of it being true or false.

 

[flanker]

According to TSL, Eteri takes a much bigger cut then is the norm. I think they said 40 or 45%? Also according to TSL-this was the major sticking point with Shoma Uno.

And we all know TSL as reliable, unbiased and correct source

 

[Ophelia]

Combine that with the fact that it was clear as the light of day who Daniil's favorites were, I'm not surprised that Sasha/parents felt she wasn't getting enough attention from him. I mean, if its obvious to us, spectators on the other side of the world who see limited footage of these people at competitions/social media, that Daniil favors Anya (and Alina), then I can't even imagine how clear it was in the rink. And Daniil as the choreographer is very important, especially when people tend to criticize Sasha most for her choreography/interpretation. Thats not to try to paint anyone as the "villain" or the "victim", and I'm certainly not a Daniil or Eteri hater, they're still my favorite team, but I'm just saying that I don't think the idea that Sasha wasn't getting enough attention isn't that outlandish and I understand her position. Sometimes, a team just reaches its carrying capacity for big stars.

I don't buy this. It's been an unending roulette here of guessing who is the "fave" in Camp Tutberidze. First people were saying that Trusova is Camp Eteri's favorite and complaining that Kostornaia was being ignored and left behind, then it was Scherb is the unfavored one, and now it's Trusova because she failed to live up to the hype and left. I believe Camp Eteri actually splits time as evenly as possible between all of her skaters and doesn't play obvious favorites.

Trusova has been stratospherically overhyped (in no small part owing to Tutberidze) and both Trusova and her parents bought into that hype. People treated her like she was the second coming of the Messiah in skating and heralded that she was going to lay the field to waste from here to Beijing 2022. Certain posters here were churning out a bajillion posts about her ensuing "dominance" and "invincibility", and that she was Daenerys Targaryen incarnate (barf). You all know who you are.

Well when a bang ends up being a whimper, of course you're going to be aggrieved and think your coaching team failed you. I maintain that the biggest issue was Trusova's overhype. She should've never gotten hyped to that degree.

 

[Fluture]

According to TSL, Eteri takes a much bigger cut then is the norm. I think they said 40 or 45%? Also according to TSL-this was the major sticking point with Shoma Uno.

Yeah, I‘m usually not someone to defend Eteri but TSL say a lot of things, many of which don‘t turn out to be true. (like the whole Eteri allegedly told Medvedeva to go have babies thing, which Evgenia later denied) I‘d take it with more than a grain of salt unless a (former) skater gives a statement about it or we have a more reliable source.

 

[Fluture]

I think he will be at Sasha's competitions. She is a gold medal contender.

Yes, I agree with this. This is a chance for him, too, so I‘m sure he‘ll do his best. Let‘s wait and hope for everything to work out.

 

[Finley]

I‘m sorry, I must have misunderstood the joke then and apologize. But after the many pages of bickering - and yes, snark - I did eventually read (maybe I shouldn‘t have but what has ever stopped a curious figure skating fan?) I was not exactly looking forward to having this discussion here again.

I do have to say that I personally don‘t think your feet were being held to the fire in any way but I still understand if it feels that way. This thread is stressful a lot. Overall, there was disagreement about some of the sources provided and in my opinion, this happens.

Between the two cases... the difference to what is happening right now with Sasha is that while we have TONS of speculations, there are eventually official sources following, to either deny or ratify the claims. As for the other topic - well, “48 hours ago“ and to this day, all we have is a bunch of claims by unknown twitter users. I think you‘ll see where the difference lies even if you don‘t agree with me. Which is fine!

Lastly, there will always be speculations and rumours. That‘s not even as much of a problem considering we‘re talking about professional athletes who are in the spotlight. (it’s not like I don’t have many questions about the “48 hours debacle“ - kind of like that name - either for example. It‘s also not like I think there‘s no reason for valid criticism) The problem only starts when these speculations are spiraling out of control and lead to something bigger and more malicious. (not saying necessarily from you but spoken overall)

There have been a few disrespectful comments about Sasha but so far I‘m pleased to see there‘s mostly support if slight questioning of her coaching choice. Imo, I hope it stays that way.

I also think your fave has been subject to honest mistakes leading to a way bigger drama (like the car situation for example) so I think we‘re kind of in a similar position somewhat. It all dies down when the new bigger drama arrives. That‘s figure skating.

Thanks for your post, still. I do think we‘re going to have to agree to disagree on a few subjects and that‘s alright. I just didn’t want to have your post unanswered lol.

Thank you for responding. I am always good with agreeing to disagree with anybody.

My joke probably wasn't even that funny.

"Feet to the fire" is just an expression. A better way to say it would have been to say "holding me to certain standard".

You are absolutely right, the situations are completely different.

I am 100% on board with no hate for anyone. Ever. But especially not for children who are subject to their parents decisions and choices.

I am also completely in favor of skaters making their own decisions and choices about how they want to spend their skating career and who they want to spend it with. It's their choice.

We are coming up on the anniversary of one of my least favorite - 'Alina receives unnecessary and unfair hate online' - moments. It sucked big time. (I got way too emotional about it.) Here are two things I've learned:

These are athletes not reality stars. They are public figures and their social media makes them visible and accessible. (Hence why Alina hardly ever posts ) But taking into account they are teenagers and young women in their early 20's who have been very sheltered and focused; maybe some grace is in order. For everyone.

They are going to make more, maybe even bigger mistakes, throughout their lives. Anyone who is expecting teenagers and people in their early 20's not to ever have another misstep in the course of a public life is insane. It's not even possible. You can't be perfect all the time and if you are how are you even relatable? None of us love our favorites because they are perfect. Among other things we love them because they are human.

 

[Alex65]

I'm just discouraged by what happened today. Time will put everything in its place. Anyway, I will think that Sasha’s decision is right. Just because I can't doubt her. The most interesting thing that I will now wait for is new programs for Sasha. Who will be the new choreographer for her? I really hope that these will not be the programs of Plushchenko. Just because the programs of Nastya T. were terribly banal this year.

 

[Zamin]

They need someone who can work with her programs next season and the one after, but also is well regarded: either a Nikolai Morozov, Peter Tchernyshev or Marina Zueva. I wouldn't mind even Shae-Lynne if they can make that happen.

As for the programs, personally i'd go this way:
SP - bring back the fun and smile of her old Big Spender program, but with a more appropriate music perhaps.
FS - Gladiator or Xena: Warrior Princess, taking obviously the big powerful cuts, keep the brave heroine-like image, cause she's still going for those crazy elements.

I don't think it's realistic to expect programs from foreign choreographers, given that travel restrictions will still be in place until at least September, so I think at best we can expect Morozov or Tchernyshev. Maybe Averbukh? Except Zhenya, has he done choreo for other skaters this season.

As for the music choices, yes a fun and upbeat SP would suit her. Her Kill Bill SP was actually great. It was cute and feisty. Maybe she'll need something a little bit more grown-up, but imho they should explore that direction.

 

[Zamin]

I'm just discouraged by what happened today. Time will put everything in its place. Anyway, I will think that Sasha’s decision is right. Just because I can't doubt her. The most interesting thing that I will now wait for is new programs for Sasha. Who will be the new choreographer for her? I really hope that these will not be the programs of Pushchenko. Just because the programs of Nastya T. were terribly banal this year.

Nastya's programs this season are entirely on Panova. She left Plush for Snow Leopards last year. I think with Plush she had actually decent packaging? Her SP, to Querer was meh, but her Moonlight Sonata rock remix was awesome, and I still remember her FS at 2019 RusNats. One of the performances of the evening.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I remember reading from a Japanese news website that Shoma wanted to keep his programs choreographed by whoever he wants (kinda like what Carolina did when she moved to Mishin keeping Lori Nichol as the choreographer), while Eteri wanted more control on that, and probably would have given to him the usual in-house Daniil work.

Shoma's brother denied that a long time ago.

 

[Tolstoj]

I don't buy this. It's been an unending roulette here of guessing who is the "fave" in Camp Tutberidze. First people were saying that Trusova is Camp Eteri's favorite and complaining that Kostornaia was being ignored and left behind, then it was Scherb is the unfavored one, and now it's Trusova because she failed to live up to the hype and left. I believe Camp Eteri actually splits time as evenly as possible between all of her skaters and doesn't play obvious favorites.

Trusova has been stratospherically overhyped (in no small part owing to Tutberidze) and both Trusova and her parents bought into that hype. People treated her like she was the second coming of the Messiah in skating and heralded that she was going to lay the field to waste from here to Beijing 2022. Certain posters here were churning out a bajillion posts about her ensuing "dominance" and "invincibility". (You all know who you are).

Well when a bang ends up being a whimper, of course you're going to be aggrieved and think your coaching team failed you. I maintain that the biggest issue was Trusova's overhype. She should've never gotten hyped to that degree.

She has been stratospherically overhyped but i'm not sure if that was the reason.

I respect Eteri's team work on her a lot but i think they are to blame for Trusova's shortcomings since GPF, and i think Sasha's call was right: a change was needed whether is on TeamTutberidze or elsewhere.

If you look back up until Rostelecom she was doing great in spite of the hype. Things have started to go wrong since she started to include 3A and 4F in her programs.

There was no need to increase the technical difficulty of her programs even more, she just needed to skate two clean programs back to back, i don't understand why they wanted to prove she could add those elements mid-season and still skate clean, unless they were hoping judges would have still kept her in first no matter what.

To me they should have sticked with the layout she had at the Test Skates with 4ltz, 4t-3t and 4t. Stop, no 4s and no 4f cause she didn't need those.

I think they made the same mistake with Samsonov and the 4f which was not ready, to be honest.

 

[Ophelia]

She has been stratospherically overhyped but i'm not sure if that was the reason.

I respect Eteri's team work on her a lot but i think they are to blame for Trusova's shortcomings since GPF, and i think Sasha's call was right: a change was needed whether is on TeamTutberidze or elsewhere.

If you look back up until Rostelecom she was doing great in spite of the hype. Things have started to go wrong since she started to include 3A and 4F in her programs.

There was no need to increase the technical difficulty of her programs even more, she just needed to skate two clean programs back to back, i don't understand why they wanted to prove she could add those elements mid-season and still skate clean, unless they were hoping judges would have still kept her in first no matter what.

To me they should have sticked with the layout she had at the Test Skates with 4ltz, 4t-3t and 4t. Stop, no 4s and no 4f cause she didn't need those.

Did you read this article? https://m.sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/254757/

It states that Camp Tutberidze was telling Trusova that she needs to scale back her quads and skate cleanly (which is what many on GS was saying too), but Trusova was the one hellbent on increasing her technical content, and hence the ensuing discord between coach, student, and student's parents.

 

[Tolstoj]

Did you read this article? https://m.sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/254757/

It states that Camp Tutberidze was telling Trusova that she needs to scale back her quads and skate cleanly (which is what many on GS was saying too), but Trusova was the one hellbent on increasing her technical content, and hence the ensuing discord between coach, student, and student's parents.

I did, but i unintentionally skipped that part in between the giant photos.

That needs to be settled with the new coaching team too, cause while the 3a could still be worth working considering quads are still not allowed in the short (hopefully that will change in the near future), i don't know how many times she can hope to skate clean with 5 quads and 3a.

Judges can give her pass to 1-2 falls but up against Kostornaya and Shcherbakova you need the clean performance, at the Olympics especially we've never seen a gold medalist with like 3 falls in the free.

 

[Alex65]

Did you read this article? https://m.sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/254757/

It states that Camp Tutberidze was telling Trusova that she needs to scale back her quads and skate cleanly (which is what many on GS was saying too), but Trusova was the one hellbent on increasing her technical content, and hence the ensuing discord between coach, student, and student's parents.

They did it for the European Championship. So what? It only got worse.
And I really hope that Sasha can keep some kind of connection with Sergey Dudakov. It always seemed to me that they were two soul mates.

 

[AshWagsFan]

They did it for the European Championship. So what? It only got worse.
And I really hope that Sasha can keep some kind of connection with Sergey Dudakov. It always seemed to me that they were two soul mates.

Can we please stop with the coach-athlete romances? Lol. But It’s very weird, maybe a bad translation but I don’t think Dudakov and Trusova are in love or soul kayes

 

[DougDorsey]

Maybe with Rozanov leaving, Mrs. Kostyleva decides to return her daughter to "Khrustalnyi"?

Wait. Did Elena's parents have an issue with Rozanov?

 

[Good Vibes Only]

Can we please stop with the coach-athlete romances? Lol. But It’s very weird, maybe a bad translation but I don’t think Dudakov and Trusova are in love or soul kayes

I think that that was just a translation error. I am sure that Alex65 did not mean that they are dating, but that they have a good coach-student relationship and got along well together.