2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

It's interesting you mention that cause Aliona started practicing quads as soon as she switched to Tutberidze, in spite of the injury, as we saw from the clips on instagram few weeks after the change.

She competed at the Test Skates, with the injury.

If that injury was that serious, maybe they should have told her not to practice quads and to rest when it was still possible to recover.

Actually Aliona said she started practicing quads while she was with Panova, before switching she was learning 4Sal. She talked about it in several interviews I believe both before and after changing coaches. Her results falling after gpf might indicate something was already going on, but perhaps, since Panova and Eteri both were training quads with Aliona, none of them knew about the seriousness of her injury, and neither did Aliona or her parents.

Besides, look at Lazukin. He was injured the whole season, but doctors didn’t give him the right diagnosis initially, so he kept skating. He just didn’t know that his I jury was more serious than he was told by doctors, neither did Mishin, because they trust their doctors and things like this unfortunately happen. Only in the second half of the season he was correctly diagnosed and given proper treatment.

 

[JazzUp]

Blessed are those who believe ... A. Griboedov "Woe from Wit"

that Eteri is omnipotent? true

 

[starlight97]

So, people are rejecting the idea that Sasha's goodbye words were written by someone else (which I'm not claiming they were), but Aliona's words were surely written by Eteri. Tell me about the double standards and alleged "non-critical Eteri admirers"

I'm convinced Sasha's instagram goodbye was written by her parents. I also think that her parents made the largest part of this coaching change decision. If you speak Russian you can read some interviews of people describing her father and how he behaves, the influence he had in her training etc.
But who cares?

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

I'm convinced Sasha's instagram goodbye was written by her parents. I also think that her parents made the largest part of this coaching change decision. If you speak Russian you can read some interviews of people describing her father and how he behaves, the influence he had in her training etc.
But who cares?

Wasn't there some sort of rumor that his father used to be a boxer and once got into a physical altercation with one of her coaches? Also her cousin, who she posts some pictures with on Instagram, apparently is on the judo team at Sambo 70

 

[Fried]

I'm convinced Sasha's instagram goodbye was written by her parents. I also think that her parents made the largest part of this coaching change decision. If you speak Russian you can read some interviews of people describing her father and how he behaves, the influence he had in her training etc.
But who cares?

Anything else would be completely negligent. Almost all parents have the final say on the future of a child between 0 and 15 years or not? Of course the child is heard and of course their views and wishes are taken into account when making decisions. It is also natural that in a drama of international scale it is not left to the fifteen year old student to make unaudited public statements.

 

[Fried]

Wasn't there some sort of rumor that his father used to be a boxer and once got into a physical altercation with one of her coaches? Also her cousin, who she posts some pictures with on Instagram, apparently is on the judo team at Sambo 70

Are you suggesting that Eteri is not in the United States at all, but is in the emergency room?

 

[Alex65]

that Eteri is omnipotent? true

Funny) I have to apologize here because I used a quote from such an antiquity. No one remembers Griboedov in modern times. In general, to put it mildly, you need to take off your thumb up from there.
Life is not only black or only white. These are always different shades of gray. If you do not admit a single black spot in some kind of living person, you rank him almost among the saints. And you will always protect your idol, def his reputation, regardless of real events, simply ignore them or interpret them to your advantage. Blessed is he who believes.
It works both ways.

 

[flanker]

Exactly! i think skaters have all sorts reason to leave a coach, and their careers shouldn't end because they left, or shouldn't be forced to retire because the coach told them they are no longer competitive.

The decision should be on the skater always, and they should have the freedom to leave even when they are at their best shape, even if that means they will train with a competing club.



It's interesting you mention that cause Aliona started practicing quads as soon as she switched to Tutberidze, in spite of the injury, as we saw from the clips on instagram few weeks after the change.

She competed at the Test Skates, with the injury.

If that injury was that serious, maybe they should have told her not to practice quads and to rest when it was still possible to recover.

Apart from what Nussnacker has said, coaches are not doctors. They have to rely on what the doctors say and the doctors in such cases usually have to watch the patients how the possible injury is developing/healing. On the other hand, remember how surprising it was when Aliona wasn't placed on JGP (only as a substitude once or twice) after how she skated well at test skates. She definitely wasn't forced.

It's definitely a sad story that her injury cost her single skating career, but not everything can be affected by coaches.

Remember that Eteri herself had to finish her career in single skating before it even truly began precisely due to spinal injury. So I think she is the first who knows the danger.

 

[Mathman]

I'm convinced Sasha's instagram goodbye was written by her parents.

I read on the Internet that it was written by Yana Rudkovskaya.

 

[Alex65]

I read on the Internet that it was written by Yana Rudkovskaya.

Can`t be no doubt. Many people talk about it even here.

 

[plushyfan]

I read on the Internet that it was written by Yana Rudkovskaya.

:agree:

 

[mdl]

I don't blame anyone, not even Panova, such things happen, but Aliona herself said she's suffered her injury during the autumn 2018, so before she even joined Eteri. I find extremely laughable to hold Eteri responsible for the things that happened before she could even have any influence on it.

Well, of course, Eteri has the power so wshe forced Kanysheva to lie, right?

Eteri knew abt the injury and still they went on practicing the quad, from a interview of Aliona from august 2019:

======
Пока что не будем вставлять в произвольную. Была травма, долго не прыгала, не тренировала. Решили, что лучше чисто откатаем без четверного, чем с четверным, но с падением.

For now, we will not insert quad in the LP. There was an injury, I did not jump for a long time, I did not train. We decided that it would be better to have clean skate without quad, then with quad, but with a fall.
==============

By the way from the same interview:

==========
- Получается, к Тутберидзе не только приходят сами, но она и зовет в группу?

– Да, такое есть. Мне предложили, сказали, что Этери Георгиевна была бы очень рада меня видеть в своей группе.


- It turns out that to Tutberidze not only they (skaters) go alone, but also she invites to the group?

- Yes, there is such thing. I was offered, they said that Eteri Georgievna would be very glad to see me in her group.
================

https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/243019?utm_source=read_also

 

[nussnacker]

Eteri knew abt the injury and still they went on practicing the quad, from a interview of Aliona from august 2019:

======
Пока что не будем вставлять в произвольную. Была травма, долго не прыгала, не тренировала. Решили, что лучше чисто откатаем без четверного, чем с четверным, но с падением.

For now, we will not insert quad in the LP. There was an injury, I did not jump for a long time, I did not train. We decided that it would be better to have clean skate without quad, then with quad, but with a fall.https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/243019?utm_source=read_also

Sounds to me Aliona says she did not jump or train for some time prior to test skates. I mean, it is literally what she said. Which means, she wasn’t jumping quads before test skates.
What likely happened is that her injury might have gotten worse sometime during summer, because it was untreated for a long time, and people responsible (whoever it is, parents or coaches or doctors) for Aliona told her to rest and recover.

What is this whole „forced to jump quads“ thing, honestly. I don’t think people realize how absurd it sounds.
Aliona K. did not want to try 3A or quads, she wasn’t made to, until she herself expressed the desire to try it. Only then, they proceeded with learning 3A.
Sasha said she had to persuade her coaches to try quads. Daniil said, they have to stop Sasha from jumping too many jumps.
Serafima said Eteri did not allow her to jump quads.

More over, not only in this interview, but also straight after fully recovering, Aliona did not sound like she was aware her injury was not going to allow her to jump. In fact, back in October or November, she said she was excited to get back in shape and get her jumps back. I think her state of health was not a 100% clear to her until the very last moment.
So, if Aliona was never aware about her injury not allowing her to jump until November last year, I assume neither were her parents, or any other adults.

 

[mdl]

Sounds to me Aliona says she did not jump or train for some time prior to test skates. I mean, it is literally what she said. Which means, she wasn’t jumping quads before test skates.
What likely happened is that her injury might have gotten worse sometime during summer, because it was untreated for a long time, and people responsible (whoever it is, parents or coaches or doctors) for Aliona told her to rest and recover.

What is this whole „forced to jump quads“ thing, honestly. I don’t think people realize how absurd it sounds.
Aliona K. did not want to try 3A or quads, she wasn’t made to, until she herself expressed the desire to try it. Only then, they proceeded with learning 3A.
Sasha said she had to persuade her coaches to try quads. Daniil said, they have to stop Sasha from jumping too many jumps.
Serafima said Eteri did not allow her to jump quads.

More over, not only in this interview, but also straight after fully recovering, Aliona did not sound like she was aware her injury was not going to allow her to jump. In fact, back in October or November, she said she was excited to get back in shape and get her jumps back. I think her state of health was not a 100% clear to her until the very last moment.
So, if Aliona was never aware about her injury not allowing her to jump until November last year, I assume neither were her parents, or any other adults.

For me, " I did not jump for a long time, I did not train" definitely does not speak for minor injury and in my opinion the final result is responsibility of the adults.

Aliona was 14, I don't think at such an age a kid can judge correctly the full gravity of an injury, moreover, she was ambitious, speaking for qualifying for the next Olympics quite often.
In addition, recently Kostornaya said how the trainers respond to complains from a skater abt pains - Eteri gathers everybody in the rink and asks them whoever does not feel any pain anywhere to raise his/ her hand...In view of this, it will not be surprising most of them just to hide and not share problems.

 

[Tolstoj]

Actually Aliona said she started practicing quads while she was with Panova, before switching she was learning 4Sal. She talked about it in several interviews I believe both before and after changing coaches. Her results falling after gpf might indicate something was already going on, but perhaps, since Panova and Eteri both were training quads with Aliona, none of them knew about the seriousness of her injury, and neither did Aliona or her parents.

Besides, look at Lazukin. He was injured the whole season, but doctors didn’t give him the right diagnosis initially, so he kept skating. He just didn’t know that his I jury was more serious than he was told by doctors, neither did Mishin, because they trust their doctors and things like this unfortunately happen. Only in the second half of the season he was correctly diagnosed and given proper treatment.

The whole "the doctors didn't know" always seemed fishy to me, how could they not know if this was known for a while, from what we read from past interviews there is a precedent of training while injured there, cause they basically put the responsibility on the skater, the skater is the one who decides when to stop, and they don't want to do that in that position cause the moment you stop is the moment you're getting sidelined.

Lazukin hasn't retired yet, he will get proper treatment, and they will try after, that's what i hoped they were going to do with Kanysheva, rather than give up immediately.

But maybe they are right, maybe she will never be able to jump again, in that case this was the right decision to do.

 

[nussnacker]

For me, " I did not jump for a long time, I did not train" definitely does not speak for minor injury and in my opinion the final result is responsibility of the adults.

Aliona was 14, I don't think at such an age a kid can judge correctly the full gravity of an injury, moreover, she was ambitious, speaking for qualifying for the next Olympics quite often.
In addition, recently Kostornaya said how the trainers respond to complains from a skater abt pains - Eteri gathers everybody in the rink and asks them whoever does not feel any pain anywhere to raise his/ her hand...In view of this, it will not be surprising most of them just to hide and not share problems.

Well, that’s what I’m saying. It got worse at certain point, it’s obvious, and she was given time to recover. Which means for some time, it was “minor” or at least undetected.
A regular teenager sure can’t always grasp that, an athlete, athlete’s parents and sport doctors, coaches sure can.

What Kostornaya said is actually quite normal in the figure skating world and in professional athlete world in general. There’s always pain involved in training, and yes, every athlete trains through minor injuries, almost all the time. There isn’t an athlete who didn’t feel any pain during their training, that I can tell you.

 

[nussnacker]

The whole "the doctors didn't know" always seemed fishy to me, how could they not know if this was known for a while, from what we read from past interviews there is a precedent of training while injured there, cause they basically put the responsibility on the skater, the skater is the one who decides when to stop, and they don't want to do that in that position cause the moment you stop is the moment you're getting sidelined.

Lazukin hasn't retired yet, he will get proper treatment, and they will try after, that's what i hoped they were going to do with Kanysheva, rather than give up immediately.

But maybe they are right, maybe she will never be able to jump again, in that case this was the right decision to do.

Oh, it isn’t about responsibility. I was naively thinking we can take more facts into account.
The Lazukin example was there not to say “see, Mishin did the same thing”. It was to say that it’s possible not to get proper diagnosis form the get go. It happens. He is an example of that.

 

[Pantsu]

A quote from Kameshek:

I want to express my gratitude to all the specialists of the Anesta @anestaclinic clinic! Thank you for the treatment! And most importantly, for the correct diagnosis! For the warm welcome and support! Now I feel good, the pain that tormented me has disappeared. I STARTED TRAINING IN THE HALL! NO PAIN! Next week I hope to go out on the ice and restore everything! I really missed the competition!
I also want to thank the coaches for their understanding and the opportunity to recover completely! To all the fans and everyone who supports me, a separate THANKS! For support in a difficult period for me! In my misfortune I was not alone! This helped to overcome difficulties! Thanks again to ALL! ��
I love you all! ♥ ️ ♥ ️ ♥ ️

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6JNAD5omGe/

 

[starlight97]

I read on the Internet that it was written by Yana Rudkovskaya.

Yes I've also read that. But I still think her parents are very involved. Which is normal at that age of course, but from some stories people from Sambo have shared, it doesn't sound like positive involvement.

I know people here are tired of the topic but today I saw an interview of Sasha where she said that she wanted to learn the 4Lo all season but that there was never a coach physically available to hold the harness cause they were all busy with juniors etc. If that's true it's interesting. And also makes you understand her motivations better

 

[Scott512]

So, people are rejecting the idea that Sasha's goodbye words were written by someone else (which I'm not claiming they were), but Aliona's words were surely written by Eteri. Tell me about the double standards and alleged "non-critical Eteri admirers"

So true.