2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Ohamyooo

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
40
I was looking to see what comps are coming up besides philly. The Hershey Open is coming up in the beginning of August and I'm wondering if this will be where Gracie chooses to go because it is lower profile. Hershey is about 2 hours from Aston. This is total speculation on my part... I have no skating connections and have no more info than anyone else on here.

My daughter and I will be at Hershey next week--we were wondering the same thing as it's now part of the national qualifying series!
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
11,648
I think this is a good move for Courtney. She's not old but, she's not getting any younger. If she's going to get on the podium at Nationals, it's now or never. Good luck girl.

My very uneducated guess is that this move was dictated as much by geography as by desire for change. Kori moved to Nashville and Scott Hamilton’s operation, which has a much different focus and does not (currently) have a stable of elite skaters. Courtney had moved to Colorado just in the past year or so and seemed to be, from social media, loving life there. So if she didn’t go to Nashville, she had to switch coaches. From what I can tell, Kori’s other skaters, Jordan Moeller and Ben Jalovick, also stayed in Colorado.

And I’m looking forward to Courtney’s SP, choreo by Jordan:clap: (I am presuming the Fanzone bio is a typo when it says “Karen Kwas” rather than Kwan, is also doing her choreo.)
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
14,721
… From what I can tell, Kori’s other skaters, Jordan Moeller and Ben Jalovick, also stayed in Colorado.

And I’m looking forward to Courtney’s SP, choreo by Jordan:clap:

Jordan Moeller is "not 100% decided either way yet (if I will return to Colorado Springs or move to Nashville)", according to the Figure Skaters Online interview published on on Jul 26.
(I think FSO [which also hosts Jordan's webpage] would do its best not to publish a quote from him if it were obsolete.)

I too am looking forward to Courtney's SP with choreo by Jordan. :agree:
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
1,980
Why is it that girls who win or medal in novice in the US rarely have success at the senior level? There are some exceptions like Karen and Gracie, but overall, the girls who medal in novice nationals are never heard from again.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Messages
10,833
Bradie Tennell won bronze at 2013 US Novice Nationals.
Alysa Liu won pewter at 2017 US Novice Nationals and Ting Cui won silver
Mariah Bell won bronze at 2011 US Novice Nationals
 

nataliebunard12

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
94
Why is it that girls who win or medal in novice in the US rarely have success at the senior level? There are some exceptions like Karen and Gracie, but overall, the girls who medal in novice nationals are never heard from again.

I feel like sometimes the girls stay in novice til they medal. And novice is way different scoring system then junior and senior(novice has bonus)
 

macy

you should see her in a crown
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
2,513
I kinda feel like Courtney's "now or never" was last season. She's just too inconsistent...5 years in a row she's come into nationals with chance to medal and 5 years in a row she's blown it. At this point, I feel like the only way she's going to get into that top 4-5 is if she builds a strong case at events during the regular season and is flawless/outstanding at nationals.

You've got Alysa, Bradie, Mariah, Hanna and Ting ahead of her. After placing 16th last year (her lowest yet) she's going to have to work three times as hard for the USFS to take a chance on her and even then I don't think they'd put her in a position to go to worlds. Just too unreliable...

I have always thought courtney has prioritized working on PCS rather than fixing her technical issues. she has huuuuge jumps and a lot of power, but the landings are very wonky and uncontrollable and she is very inconsistent as a result. i really think fixing this issue should have been her focus and then improving SS, artistry, etc after. her jumps have really suffered as a consequence and i don't think there's any coming back now.
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
4,769
My very uneducated guess is that this move was dictated as much by geography as by desire for change. Kori moved to Nashville and Scott Hamilton’s operation, which has a much different focus and does not (currently) have a stable of elite skaters. Courtney had moved to Colorado just in the past year or so and seemed to be, from social media, loving life there. So if she didn’t go to Nashville, she had to switch coaches. From what I can tell, Kori’s other skaters, Jordan Moeller and Ben Jalovick, also stayed in Colorado.

And I’m looking forward to Courtney’s SP, choreo by Jordan:clap: (I am presuming the Fanzone bio is a typo when it says “Karen Kwas” rather than Kwan, is also doing her choreo.)

Yes, it would be hard to move again so soon.. new rink, new accomodation, new skating friends etc. Krall is one of my favorite US coaches. I really hope she can help Courtney be stable with her big athletic jumps. Also agree that it will be exciting to see what Jordan and Karen Kwan have choreographed for her.

May this be Courtney's best season ever :dance3:
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
7,042
Why is it that girls who win or medal in novice in the US rarely have success at the senior level? There are some exceptions like Karen and Gracie, but overall, the girls who medal in novice nationals are never heard from again.

I think there are several reasons.

I feel like sometimes the girls stay in novice til they medal. And novice is way different scoring system then junior and senior(novice has bonus)

Those are two of them.

Also, among others:

Girls who medal in novice just need to be among the top 3 in the US at the novice level that year. The next year there will be a whole new group of novice medalists.
When they get to senior level, they may be up against skaters who were novices at any time in the past decade. The successful seniors don't move up and out the next year -- they stick around and the most successful tend to stay on the podium.

Many novices still have childlike body types. As they grow and mature, they may end up with adult bodies that are less naturally conducive to rotating in the air or extreme flexibility or other figure skating skills required for success in today's sport

Many also end up leaving the sport, or just failing to progress as much as other competitors in their cohort, due to injuries, finances, changing interests, other family priorities, etc.
 

cherry1

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
13
Why is it that girls who win or medal in novice in the US rarely have success at the senior level? There are some exceptions like Karen and Gracie, but overall, the girls who medal in novice nationals are never heard from again.

Most girl won novice who did easy jump combination such as Triple/double and also stayed longer time at lower levels and getting older with higher program component score. Many of novice girl who won national cannot do difficult triple/triple and so cannot survive until senior. The girl who can do difficult triple/triple ( e.g triple lutz/triple toe) at young age may not be poduim at Novice national due to lower program component score/less confidence, but they become more excellent skator with improved program component score at Junior and/or senior level. Girl needs talent to do difficult triple/triple combination jump at young age, but program component score will be increased once they skate more and gain confidence with difficult triple/triple jump in the competition as they aged.

Since some girl can do triple axel and quad in the world and USA, this will be changed again. Now, the girl who can do only triple/triple without triple axel/or quad cannot survive anymore in the future. The lady who can do triple axel/quad should be very talented. Once girl starts puberty (between age of 13-16), body changed a lot and struggle with difficult jumps.
That's the reason why most of russian lady skator cannot survive after age of 16 since genetically they are big and tall once puberty starts. They are really good at Junior.
Two russian girls with quad are very tiny and skinny due to a strict diet. Once they start puberty, their body will be changed and might lost quad jumps.
 

Elana

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
183
Emilia Murdock never done triple loop in her short and long program in the any competition until this year March including international competiton after National. She just put triple loop in her short program in the lack placid and Glacier fall due to the rule change of Junior grand prix this year, but she fell very hardly this jump in both competitions. Triple loop is required for Junior short program this year!!!!

I’m a little confused by where this is coming from? Milly had a triple loop in her long all season last year, I believe. She also had her flip and salchow before her loop, so she is stronger with them than the loop. It only makes sense that she would do a flip and lutz in her short, both because they are stronger jumps for her and have higher base value. I don’t think you can judge a jump by two summer competitions, give her time.

Side note, I have been following Milly for many years now and competed against her for a while. A lot of talent comes out of New England, but there was always something special about Milly. For years me and my mom have said that she would be the one to make it to the top and would always make a point of watching her at competitions. She is very dedicated, but also very spunky and very kind. As someone who has been a fan of hers since she was much younger, it is very cool to see that she has made it to the JGP and is making a name for herself, even without the technical content that she needs yet. I hope others are able to see in her what I do, even if it takes her a couple more years to reach her full potential.
 

nataliebunard12

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
94
I’m a little confused by where this is coming from? Milly had a triple loop in her long all season last year, I believe. She also had her flip and salchow before her loop, so she is stronger with them than the loop. It only makes sense that she would do a flip and lutz in her short, both because they are stronger jumps for her and have higher base value. I don’t think you can judge a jump by two summer competitions, give her time.

Side note, I have been following Milly for many years now and competed against her for a while. A lot of talent comes out of New England, but there was always something special about Milly. For years me and my mom have said that she would be the one to make it to the top and would always make a point of watching her at competitions. She is very dedicated, but also very spunky and very kind. As someone who has been a fan of hers since she was much younger, it is very cool to see that she has made it to the JGP and is making a name for herself, even without the technical content that she needs yet. I hope others are able to see in her what I do, even if it takes her a couple more years to reach her full potential.

Emilia Murdock is 16 years old and still doesn't have a triple triple tho..
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
Emilia Murdock is 16 years old and still doesn't have a triple triple tho..

She has a triple-triple, but not a consistent one. She’s also practicing the 3A and has great energy and performance skills. A lot of these girls will probably upgrade as the season progresses. I know a few Junior ladies who said they want to upgrade to a 3Lz+3T by Nationals because that’s what the junior scene has become in a very short time: you need a consistent 3-3 to even be in the Top 5/6. For example, the top Junior ladies right now are either doing the 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo, or the 3F+3T with one attempting a 3Lo+3T.

- Lindsay Thorngren: 3Lz+3T and 3Lz+3Lo<
- Kate Wang: 3Lz+3Lo, 3Lz+3T, and 3F+Eu+3S
- Isabelle Inthisone: 4T<, 3F+3T, and 3Lz+Eu+3S
- Mia Kalin: 3A (in progress), 3Lz+3T, and 3F+Eu+3S
- Isabeau Levito: 3Lz+3T+2Lo, 3S+3T, and 3Lo+3T
- Jessica Lin: 3T+3T
- Sarah Jung: 3A<, 3Lz+3T, 3F+Eu+3S, 4S (in progress)
- Hanna Harrell: 3Lz+3T and 4T (in progress)
- Alysa Liu: 3A+3T, 4Lz+2T, 3Lz+3T, and 3F+Eu+3S
- Audrey Shin: 4T< and 3Lz+3T
- Noelle Rose: 3Lz+3T<
- Pooja Kalyan: 3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, and 3F+3T
- Gabriella Izzo: 3F+3Lo and 3Lz+3Lo<

Last year, we had 6 Juniors who successfully executed 3-3s... this year, we have 13 young ladies who have already showcased their 3-3’s while some are attempting the 3A and quads. Heck, we have a few Novice ladies with clean 3Lz+3Ts or other 3-3s. In just ONE year, the playing field has changed SO much.

Of the 13 ladies I posted, 7 of them will be at Nationals as juniors and we have a few with 3+2+2 or 3+2 who are working on a 3-3 (like Ellen Slavicek who is working on a 3Lz+3T). To me, I feel like the junior level at Nationals will be more competitive technically than the senior level Nationals this year.
 

Elana

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
183
Emilia Murdock is 16 years old and still doesn't have a triple triple tho..

I'm well aware, she definitely does not have her tech up to par, I mentioned that... However, you can tell that she is working on her 3+3 given the entrance to the triple toe in her long. It would definitely be better if she was younger, but look at Bradie, she didn't reach her full potential until she was a bit older.

Also, I totally see more potential in Alysa, Hanna (my personal fav junior), maybe Kate, Lindsay and Sarah. But honestly, I find Milly the next best entertaining skater after Alysa and Hanna. I think she is more musical, engaging, and smoother, and maybe that is because she is a little older and had more time to perfect those skills. I think if she gains consistency and a triple triple, she will be better than a lot of the girls who are juniors.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
7,042
Of the 13 ladies I posted, 7 of them will be at Nationals as juniors

I think the junior field will be pretty packed nationally this year, and there may well be some surprises as to who qualifies and who doesn't. It's not a done deal until November.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,670
Last year, we had 6 Juniors who successfully executed 3-3s... this year, we have 13 young ladies who have already showcased their 3-3’s while some are attempting the 3A and quads. Heck, we have a few Novice ladies with clean 3Lz+3Ts or other 3-3s. In just ONE year, the playing field has changed SO much.

It's very impressive, and these junior/novice ladies are working hard to catch up to the Russian and Japanese skaters. It's also important that they are successful with all the triple jump elements; the whole reason skaters learn a 3-3 is to accrue more points in the SP and have an opportunity to do an extra triple in the LP. So if they aren't hitting everything else regularly, the extra difficulty doesn't help that much. Hopefully training the difficult moves (especially the 3A and quads) helps improve the quality of the other triples, as we saw in last couple of years from Mirai and Elizabet.
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
It's very impressive, and these junior/novice ladies are working hard to catch up to the Russian and Japanese skaters. It's also important that they are successful with all the triple jump elements; the whole reason skaters learn a 3-3 is to accrue more points in the SP and have an opportunity to do an extra triple in the LP. So if they aren't hitting everything else regularly, the extra difficulty doesn't help that much. Hopefully training the difficult moves (especially the 3A and quads) helps improve the quality of the other triples, as we saw in last couple of years from Mirai and Elizabet.
Mia Kalin, Lindsay Thorngren, Kate Wang, Isabeau Levito, and Jessica Lin are the most consistent with their 3-3's. Isabeau just got her 3Lz this year and was already dishing out 3Lz+3T+2T. Audrey Meredith, a novice lady, got ALL of her triples AND the 2A in the span of 10-11 months and successfully landed a 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+2T+2Lo, and 2A+3T. Kate is an early season kind of girl, so I hope she gets an early Junior Grand Prix. By the time Nationals rolls around, we might see some new faces and some of the girls who were great during the summer falter and not even make it to Nationals. Only time will tell.

Kate Wang's Free Skate at Skate Detroit --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQUlvjOK0ek&list=PLZKxHbhdPFF7VLc7GhNtwCWuFpN6JtQon&index=8&t=0s
Jessica Lin's Free Skate at Skate Detroit --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVWGhGYlKAo&list=PLZKxHbhdPFF7VLc7GhNtwCWuFpN6JtQon&index=10&t=0s
Mia Kalin's Free Skate at CCIA --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p97ws1jBTw
Lindsay Thorngren's Free Skate at Southern CT --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsV1AFVOK-4

P.S. - Does anyone see a little bit of Midori Ito in Kate... or is it just me? Maybe it's the face shape and the hair.
 

nataliebunard12

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
94
I'm well aware, she definitely does not have her tech up to par, I mentioned that... However, you can tell that she is working on her 3+3 given the entrance to the triple toe in her long. It would definitely be better if she was younger, but look at Bradie, she didn't reach her full potential until she was a bit older.

Also, I totally see more potential in Alysa, Hanna (my personal fav junior), maybe Kate, Lindsay and Sarah. But honestly, I find Milly the next best entertaining skater after Alysa and Hanna. I think she is more musical, engaging, and smoother, and maybe that is because she is a little older and had more time to perfect those skills. I think if she gains consistency and a triple triple, she will be better than a lot of the girls who are juniors.

Bradie did reach her full potential at an older age, but she still maintained her jumps well . Now with these young girls who are tiny and rely on rotation and quickness, we need to see how growing might affect their jumps. As you get older the rotation speed will slow down.
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
1,980
Apparently, Starr Andrews is competing at the Philadelphia competition this weekend. Can anyone confirm this? I’m curious because there aren’t many competitions left before champs camp. So who’ll get the SA host spot?
 

frida80

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
6,584
Apparently, Starr Andrews is competing at the Philadelphia competition this weekend. Can anyone confirm this? I’m curious because there aren’t many competitions left before champs camp. So who’ll get the SA host spot?

Sylvia said that she Karen and Young will be at Philly International. As for the SA spot, I think Amber is getting it. No one with out a GP spot has scored as high as she at Skate Detroit.
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
From the practices, Karen landed a rotated 3Lz+3T and Starr, Akari, and Young You were also there. No signs of Hanna Harrell.

EDIT: Hanna is indeed at the competition.
 

bytheriver

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
158
8:40 PM for the normal senior ladies and 9 AM for the international senior ladies. Then there’s an FS round at 6:30 PM for the international senior ladies.

Link: https://iceworkssc.org/events/philadelphia-summer-championships/

It’s actually 12 for the international ladies SP and 10:45 AM on Saturday for the FS. The schedule is a little confusing with the abbreviations for warm ups and practice ice. Looking forward to seeing Karen and Starr!!
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
655
It’s actually 12 for the international ladies SP and 10:45 AM on Saturday for the FS. The schedule is a little confusing with the abbreviations for warm ups and practice ice. Looking forward to seeing Karen and Starr!!
Ahhh, thank you. I was so confused.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
7,615
I saw a video of Karen's 3Lz-3T on twitter (sorry, don't have the link) and it's the best one I have ever seen her do.
 

jd0505

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
46
Does anyone know if someone usually streams the Philadelphia competition?
 
Top