2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[brightphoton]

How do you know that?

USFSA did cover the cost of Gracie to go to eating disorder rehab for a month and a half. I don't know if $50,000 is correct but these inpatient clinics are veryexpensive. The amount seems to be ballpark reasonable, although American healthcare costs are notoriously high. I'vee seen GoFundMes for women who need treatment but can't afford it ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/sports/gracie-gold-figure-skating-.html

 

[MarinHondas]

USFSA did cover the cost of Gracie to go to eating disorder rehab for a month and a half. I don't know if $50,000 is correct but these inpatient clinics are veryexpensive. The amount seems to be ballpark reasonable, although American healthcare costs are notoriously high. I'vee seen GoFundMes for women who need treatment but can't afford it ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/sports/gracie-gold-figure-skating-.html

Oh okay! Just didn’t know how op knew it was the most exclusive and expensive one, was the name of the clinic also released?

 

[KatGrace1925]

It sounds like her going to the "most exclusive" clinic is nothing but conjecture. Making snide comments about the cost of her treatment seems wrong. Please don't spread things without sources. Gracie's mental battle was very dark, we should be happy she is alive and in a better place not comparing her story to other people's.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

To be completely honest, I think people should go into skating with the expectation that they're going to lose money, so they'll have to make up the difference by getting a job, setting up a GoFundMe, or just having at least one parent who has a high paying job. Sponsorships are few, skating shows usually occur on the off-season, and even if you do win medals, the prize money isn't that much.

We once had a skater named Agnes Zawadzki, who imo would be considered a "mid tier" skater. Good jumper. She was in the running to go to the Olympics but didn't make it. Her mother went into bankruptcy from skating expenses. I always felt really bad for her, because it seemed like she had a desire or expectation to make figure skating financially viable, in addition to the usually Olympic dreams.

“I want to do well and make money to help out my family, but at times that makes this feel kind of like a job,” she said in her gentle voice.

“Sometimes I feel like I’m never doing enough because I want to pay my mother back so much,” she said. “I want to buy her nice things, I want to make things easier for her. I feel like I let my family down.”

Agnes will be 23 when the Winter Olympics roll around again. Facing another four years of saving and spending money, she said she’d take some time off to rethink her future in the sport. For now, she just wants to be left alone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/...gle-to-reach-olympics-is-the-familys-too.html

While the Olympics was a dream, Agnes still had an outstanding career, with two junior world medals and a GP medal. I don't think making the Olympic team and finishing way off the podium would have made much of a financial difference for her family in the long run.

 

[concorde]

The skater your describing I consider a person that is skating strictly for personal pleasure. I doubt they get any funding or ever get the Team USA jacket. However, if they are passionate about what they do, good for them. I guess all adult figure skaters are in that category to. Learning about a woman that learned a 2A in her 40s, will forever be inspirational.

We all have are own type of ranking. I mentally use USFS tier system to rank skaters. But since that’s pretty detailed, the way I think of skaters is like this.


Level 1: The world team

These are the three or four skaters that likely on the podium at nationals and make it to worlds, or be first alternate. Skaters like Mariah or Bradie.

Level 2: On the GP

These skaters earned on the GP. These skaters have earned scores high enough that they are selected for the GP. It doesn’t neccesserily mean they’ll get close to the podium, but in the past 12 months they skated well enough to get earn a spot.

Level 4: Developmental (JGP and CS only)

They just earned scores that are good enough for interntional spots. Kids that do well at summer comps and nationals get placed on the ISP for the first time. Those that didn’t do well enough to earn a GP spot well get CS spots as a way to earn an ISU Personal Best. USFS has gotten a little stingy about CS spots, though.

Level 5: National bound

Skaters that get to nationals but consistently place near the bottom. Just getting to nationals is a major accomplishment for them. They’re happy. USFS is trying to lower the number of this group by using minimum scores.

Level 6: Everyone else

Any skater that never places in the top four at sectionals. However, skating is their blood. They love it! They treasure the small accomplishments, compete at local competitions, and enjoy the comraderie and friendship they built on ice. One day they all share their passion becoming coaches and choreographers. These are the backbone of the sport, the ones that teach the next generation the basic skills, jumps, spins, and how to compete.

Some of those "pleasure" skaters do become National competitors so I think it is unfair to write them off. One first time National competitor this year is Mia Eckels who earned 2nd @ Sectionals as a Junior. Zagitova was not a top skater when she was a Novice but 3 years later she became OC.

On the flip side, some National competitors quit skating for various reasons (injury, pursuit of other interests).

Ice is slippery so things can change quickly.

 

[brightphoton]

While the Olympics was a dream, Agnes still had an outstanding career, with two junior world medals and a GP medal. I don't think making the Olympic team and finishing way off the podium would have made much of a financial difference for her family in the long run.

I thought Agnes was an outside contender for the 2014 Olympic team. Obviously with hindsight, we know Grace, Polina, and Ashley went to Sochi, but at the time, no one really was a "lock" for the Olympic team and we had 3 spots available.

Agnes had giant jumps, although not always landed, and had podiumed a few times at senior Nationals. This was her 2013 short program (please ignore the walk like an Egyptian arms)
https://youtu.be/vawazEbumQI

Unfortunately Agnes got injured in 2014 ...

 

[frida80]

Some of those "pleasure" skaters do become National competitors so I think it is unfair to write them off. One first time National competitor this year is Mia Eckels who earned 2nd @ Sectionals as a Junior. Zagitova was not a top skater when she was a Novice but 3 years later she became OC.

On the flip side, some National competitors quit skating for various reasons (injury, pursuit of other interests).

Ice is slippery so things can change quickly.

I’m not writing them off. I’m saying that’s there main motivation for continuing. Of course there are some skaters that make nationals. However, I’m talking about many skaters that aren’t junior aged anymore. They’ve become seniors and continue to skate even though they don’t have high technical content. Many senior skaters have made nationals after working for several years. Mia is still young, so she’s not in that category yet. With her, she’s more in the developmental category. If she makes a good score and placement at nationals at around 165, she’ll probably get a JGP spot. There is still time for her. Younger skater have tons of potential and can explode overnight. Sometimes they just need the right thing to make it all come together. It’s my favorite thing to watch.

However, if you’re a 23+ year old senior that consistently scores at the bottom of sectionals with a score lower than 120, I imagine this is more for personal pleasure. I’ve seen many ladies like this. Some with only one or two triples. Some with no triples at all. After a fall they pop up with the biggest smile on their face. For some reason, I find them the most compelling to watch. No stress, no nerves, just pure happiness. Afterwards, they get off their ice and hug their families, congratulate other skaters and watch the rest of the competition with relish.

Skating seems much more lovely at sectionals and regionals. I wish more FS fans would come to support.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I thought Agnes was an outside contender for the 2014 Olympic team. Obviously with hindsight, we know Grace, Polina, and Ashley went to Sochi, but at the time, no one really was a "lock" for the Olympic team and we had 3 spots available.

Yes, I mean she dreamed of making the Olympics, like every skater. She was definitely in contention after winning bronze at the previous two Nationals.

 

[Sugar Coated]

It sounds like her going to the "most exclusive" clinic is nothing but conjecture. Making snide comments about the cost of her treatment seems wrong. Please don't spread things without sources. Gracie's mental battle was very dark, we should be happy she is alive and in a better place not comparing her story to other people's.

I’ve worked at a residential treatment center. The place I worked was very good but by no means “the most exclusive.” It costs about $30k per month of treatment. Almost all treatment centers are going to cost around this amount of money to provide the round the clock care needed in a residential setting. So $50k for 6 weeks seems accurate and by no means out of the ordinary for treatment like this.

 

[KatGrace1925]

I’ve worked at a residential treatment center. The place I worked was very good but by no means “the most exclusive.” It costs about $30k per month of treatment. Almost all treatment centers are going to cost around this amount of money to provide the round the clock care needed in a residential setting. So $50k for 6 weeks seems accurate and by no means out of the ordinary for treatment like this.

The comment I was responding to made it sound like she went to a treatment center that cost more than a normal treatment center to the point of being unnecessarily exclusive with the verbiage. It also made it seem like the USFS shouldn’t have helped with the cost of it when that call wasn’t up to fans and there might be good reason the USFS wanted to help her with cost.

 

[lurkz2]

No, they aren’t funded and almost all of them have GoFundMes. Nathan Chen I don’t think has one. If you head on over to the “fan fest” area the GoFundMes are usually posted on the first post. Let me know if you have a problem finding them. Some also sell products to help with training expenses. Almost all of them coach or choreograph or do something on the side.

Nathan had one for his first senior season, saw it before. Of course he doesn't need it now...

http://figureskatersonline.com/nathanchen/author/fsonline/

 

[moonvine]

I’m not writing them off. I’m saying that’s there main motivation for continuing. Of course there are some skaters that make nationals. However, I’m talking about many skaters that aren’t junior aged anymore. They’ve become seniors and continue to skate even though they don’t have high technical content. Many senior skaters have made nationals after working for several years. Mia is still young, so she’s not in that category yet. With her, she’s more in the developmental category. If she makes a good score and placement at nationals at around 165, she’ll probably get a JGP spot. There is still time for her. Younger skater have tons of potential and can explode overnight. Sometimes they just need the right thing to make it all come together. It’s my favorite thing to watch.

However, if you’re a 23+ year old senior that consistently scores at the bottom of sectionals with a score lower than 120, I imagine this is more for personal pleasure. I’ve seen many ladies like this. Some with only one or two triples. Some with no triples at all. After a fall they pop up with the biggest smile on their face. For some reason, I find them the most compelling to watch. No stress, no nerves, just pure happiness. Afterwards, they get off their ice and hug their families, congratulate other skaters and watch the rest of the competition with relish.

Skating seems much more lovely at sectionals and regionals. I wish more FS fans would come to support.

That is what I call the joy of skating and I love those skaters. Several are my favorites. Andrew Austin comes to mind. If you have NBC Sports Gold watch him at last years Nationals. He came in dead last and was one of the happiest people there. Same with a young lady who came in last at Collegiates - she was my favorite skater there.

I can only afford so many trips but since I can’t go to Nationals next year maybe I can make a Sectionals. With a giant bag o stuffies.

 

[moonvine]

It sounds like her going to the "most exclusive" clinic is nothing but conjecture. Making snide comments about the cost of her treatment seems wrong. Please don't spread things without sources. Gracie's mental battle was very dark, we should be happy she is alive and in a better place not comparing her story to other people's.

Honestly. FWIW I asked Brent what the fund was that paid for Gracie and I give to that one as well as I give to the Memorial Fund in support of Gracie. While heaven only knows at my income level I will never replace what they spent unless I win the lottery, I also may not be the only one doing so.

 

[Bentley]

Yes, I mean she dreamed of making the Olympics, like every skater. She was definitely in contention after winning bronze at the previous two Nationals.

I thought Agnes was a very good skater with a lot of potential. It is a real shame injury and lack of money ended her competitive career. IMO, the USFA backs and promotes the person that is not always the most deserving.

 

[Bentley]

It is precisely because Bradie is number one now that I think Mariah will win nationals this year or Alysa will.

I think this year the Judges will not be as forgiving to Alysa. At least I hope they will be fair and call her URS just like they should with all. Last year they were ready to award her the gold because of the Triple Axels. However this year I think they will be more concerned with selecting a gold medal winner that can go to Worlds as US Champion. I do believe Alysa's time will come, however. She is determent and talented.

 

[truthbooth]

I think this year the Judges will not be as forgiving to Alysa. At least I hope they will be fair and call her URS just like they should with all. Last year they were ready to award her the gold because of the Triple Axels. However this year I think they will be more concerned with selecting a gold medal winner that can go to Worlds as US Champion. I do believe Alysa's time will come, however. She is determent and talented.

I actually see this the opposite way. Looking back at the PCS scoring last year, particularly in the FS, the judges were very willing to place Alysa in second or even third. But, as we know, Bradie and Mariah both fell in the FS, and Alysa was clean with two 3A.

I do see Alysa earning higher PCS this year because she is the reigning champion and because she has genuinely improved. I think she's definitely the favorite going in, but as we saw at the final, if they call unders on her 3A and 4Lz, her win is not assured.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Not quite as sure as you, look at her lutzes in Gdansk
Yet I agree very much with you about her fast progress, and the likeliness she would soon truly deserve the scores she already got. Particularly if she can train with Carolina Kostner.

 

[ice coverage]

... FWIW I asked Brent what the fund was that paid for Gracie and I give to that one as well as I give to the Memorial Fund in support of Gracie. ...

Hope it is not inappropriate to ask what the name of the USFS fund was that paid for Gracie's residential treatment?

I am asking because I just am curious to learn something about the structure of USFS.
I am not questioning/criticizing that USFS paid for her treatment.

(Totally respect your generosity.
I readily will acknowledge that I am not asking because I intend to donate to whatever fund it is. I already support USFS by donating many hours of volunteering to USFS events, and I am a member of FOFS.)

---

... However, if you’re a 23+ year old senior that consistently scores at the bottom of sectionals with a score lower than 120, I imagine this is more for personal pleasure. I’ve seen many ladies like this. Some with only one or two triples. Some with no triples at all. After a fall they pop up with the biggest smile on their face. For some reason, I find them the most compelling to watch. No stress, no nerves, just pure happiness. Afterwards, they get off their ice and hug their families, congratulate other skaters and watch the rest of the competition with relish. ...

I understand the contrast you are drawing btwn someone "on track" for international competition sooner or later (maybe even at Worlds/OWG) vs. someone who does not have a realistic shot of advancing beyond sectionals.

That said, I (as a non-skater) suspect that "No stress, no nerves" is not literally true for the sectionals-"only" skaters (my shorthand), even if they do bounce back up from a fall with a big smile.
I imagine that going into sectionals, they have certain expectations of themselves (in accordance with their planned content) -- and that it would be natural to feel some stress and nerves along with those expectations.

 

[Skatefan15]

I hope the judging is fair at nationals , if someone under rotates, no matter their status, they should get called out on it!!

 

[moonvine]

Hope it is not inappropriate to ask what the name of the USFS fund was that paid for Gracie's residential treatment?

I am asking because I just am curious to learn something about the structure of USFS.
I am not questioning/criticizing that USFS paid for her treatment.

(Totally respect your generosity.
I readily will acknowledge that I am not asking because I intend to donate to whatever fund it is. I already support USFS by donating many hours of volunteering to USFS events, and I am a member of FOFS.)

---

I understand the contrast you are drawing btwn someone "on track" for international competition sooner or later (maybe even at Worlds/OWG) vs. someone who does not have a realistic shot of advancing beyond sectionals.

That said, I (as a non-skater) suspect that "No stress, no nerves" is not literally true for the sectionals-"only" skaters (my shorthand), even if they do bounce back up from a fall with a big smile.
I imagine that going into sectionals, they have certain expectations of themselves (in accordance with their planned content) -- and that it would be natural to feel some stress and nerves along with those expectations.

The Team USA fund is the one that helped Gracie.

Also, I am sure some Sectionals skaters and skaters at other events have expectations. But I have seen people skate with no expectations and it is awesome. The young lady who finished last at Collegiates had been in a car accident several months prior and was happy to be alive and skated into last place with great joy. She said she had fun and learned a lot. And I very much enjoyed her performance. She skated her long program to Prince in honor of her late grandfather and I loved it. I could barely wait to throw the stuffie.