2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[lucyrose]

She couldn't beat Kamila Valieva (the girl has a name) because she made too many mistakes.

And she HAS worked on her skating skills and speed, she was very noticeably faster and smoother here.

Let's face it there is no way Bradie or Mariah would score as high internationally either or have some errors overlooked either.

It works both ways

Sure thing! It's pretty clear we all have different opinions on the way the scores panned out. Agree to disagree.

 

[el henry]

Well more skaters like Alysa, capable of similar stuff to the Russians and that WOULD change.

I understand that is your opinion. My opinion is different but I do not want to divert talking about US Ladies here, so I think I will leave it at that.

 

[KatGrace1925]

That is your opinion and is not one that everyone shares. Just remember that.
These "little girls" with "cheated" quads happen to be filling arenas and gaining bigger popularity for ladies figure skating than it had for years...the ISU are not going to do anything to change that and why should they shoot themselves in the foot?

Alysa isn’t filling arenas for the US quite the opposite, Figure Skating is dying here the crowd for the mens event was bigger than the ladies event.

 

[Mishaminion]

I understand that is your opinion. My opinion is different but I do not want to divert talking about US Ladies here, so I think I will leave it at that.

Well, it is true that ladies was more popular in the US when they had ladies who could and did win.
Only Ashley Wagner has won a world medal between 2007 and 2019 and realistically that's probably not going to change this season either.
It certainly is a huge factor in the huge loss of popularity since 2006

 

[KatGrace1925]

She couldn't beat Kamila Valieva (the girl has a name) because she made too many mistakes.

And she HAS worked on her skating skills and speed, she was very noticeably faster and smoother here.

Let's face it there is no way Bradie or Mariah would score as high internationally either or have some errors overlooked either.

It works both ways

Except that Bradie and Mariah are gaining momentum and scoring higher and higher each successful go round on the international stage; they’ve stepped it up this season and their scores are starting to rise each consistent program they put out.

 

[Mishaminion]

Alysa isn’t filling arenas for the US quite the opposite, Figure Skating is dying here the crowd for the mens event was bigger than the ladies event.

I never said she was!!! I said if she and other US ladies do become more directly competitive with the Russians and maybe start winning even then it would certainly help popularity climb again.

 

[Mishaminion]

Except that Bradie and Mariah are gaining momentum and scoring higher and higher each successful go round on the international stage; they’ve stepped it up this season and their scores are starting to rise each consistent program they put out.

That is true but they have not scored as high as they did at Nationals and I doubt that will change this season (apart from WTT which has silly over the top scoring anyway), Nationals inflation is hardly a new thing.

Alysa is also improving and has the potential to raise her own scores too.

 

[KatGrace1925]

I never said she was!!! I said if she and other US ladies do become more directly competitive with the Russians and maybe start winning even then it would certainly help popularity climb again.

It’s still to early to know if Alysa’s going to be competitive once She hits the senior level. Eteri’s school is always pushing and planning for the rest of the world to catch up and Alysa can barely eek a 4Lz around, her 3A is solid but will any of this remain solid if she has a growth spurt? I dislike the idea of putting pressure on anyone to win and restore the sports popularity in the US. A few seasons ago another skater was our big hope and look what that led to...

 

[Mishaminion]

It’s still to early to know if Alysa’s going to be competitive once She hits the senior level. Eteri’s school is always pushing and planning for the rest of the world to catch up and Alysa can barely eek a 4Lz around, her 3A is solid but will any of this remain solid if she has a growth spurt? I dislike the idea of putting pressure on anyone to win and restore the sports popularity in the US. A few seasons ago another skater was our big hope and look what that led to...

It is a lot of pressure but I kind of understand it. Lots of fans want to see American ladies on top again after such a long drought.

 

[KatGrace1925]

It is a lot of pressure but I kind of understand it. Lots of fans want to see American ladies on top again after such a long drought.

The ladies have been capable for awhile but plagued by inconsistencies. It is a shame the moment we finally have consistent contenders the sport has moved on from triple programs. Kinda odd to think about how 15 years ago the top contenders didn’t all necessarily have to have consistent 3-3’s and now 3-3’s mean nothing to people, I still think they’re marvelous and a huge athletic feat to perform program after program. I do wonder if in 15 more years if 4-3’s will be old news.

 

[moonvine]

Alysa isn’t filling arenas for the US quite the opposite, Figure Skating is dying here the crowd for the mens event was bigger than the ladies event.

I disagree that the crowd for the men’s event was bigger than for the ladies. It was big, but there were empty seats, unlike for the ladies. And I will tell you who puts butts in seats and that is Gracie Gold.

 

[katymay]

Tho I noticed in both junior and senior event that some scores were a bit exaggerated or pushed low. It kinda looks like the USFS are playing a favoring game of some sort

Yup. I would say this was an especially inflated nationals. GOE's of 4 and 5's on jumps that should have been a more moderate 2 to 3 range.

 

[chuckm]

Alysa was getting PCs in the high 6s and low 7s on the JGP (I looked it up). At the JGPF, she lost to a quadless (due to injury) Valieva on both TES and PCS, even though Alysa won the SP.
In the JGPF FS, Alysa fell on her opening 3a, URd the 2nd 3a and both her 4z attempts. Valieva got higher PCS in the SP 30.48 to 30.18, and in the FS, Valieva got high7s and low 8s, while Alysa got mid 7s. Valieva had no URs or falls in either program.

As for inflation, Alysa received the lion's share. Her SB was 202+, and her score of 235.5 was way above that---and on par with Shcherbakova's silver medal Euros score of 237.76. Alysa is no way equal in SS or style and grace to the Senior Russian ladies.

 

[rlopen]

I just do hope that with all of this bickering over Alysa’s “lack of artistry” people don’t see the PCS complaints as solely anti-Russian anymore because IMO they never were. Even in the earlier days of IJS it was baffling to see some of the PCS scores Ando received in relation to Asada and Yuna. IJS has always favored athleticism over artistry and the only reason “lack of artistry” was talked about in Russian skaters was because the top Russian skaters edge quality and musicality was lacking although they were the top athletes in ladies skating (and a decent amount of them still are, although Kostornaia and Schcherbakova have dulled that argument with Kostornaia’s superb skating skills and Schcherbakova’s inherent musicality) I think IJS is a better replacement than 6.0 in terms of fairness, but it hurts bringing in casual fans because there is such a commitment to having to learn the system. For what it’s worth, I think Alysa fully deserved her win even though I preferred Mariah’s skate. Amazing artistry shouldn’t beat out okay artistry when an okay artist has a quad lutz (although UR), two triple axels and backloads two triple-triple combos and the amazing artist only has one triple-triple combination. I’m sorry but the difference between Alysa and Mariah in technical elements is bigger than the difference between Alysa and Mariah in artistry. And quite frankly even if the FS scores were closer I don’t think Mariah should have won as she was not clean in the SP. Alysa was across both segments (not squeaky clean but she didn’t fall.)

 

[Colonel Green]

Kinda odd to think about how 15 years ago the top contenders didn’t all necessarily have to have consistent 3-3’s and now 3-3’s mean nothing to people, I still think they’re marvelous and a huge athletic feat to perform program after program. I do wonder if in 15 more years if 4-3’s will be old news.

I think the sport is probably close to its technical limit at this point (though I suppose people have thought that before).

But yeah, it's funny to look back at Torino and all the 3-2 combinations from top medal contenders. I guess Joannie's planned 3-2s in Vancouver were kind of the last gasp of that era. Mariah as she's skating right now could have been a podium contender in Pyeongchang, but that already seems to be past us.

Well, at least unless Wakaba wheels out her 3A like she's been threatening to, I think Mariah is probably the frontrunner for silver at 4CC at least.

 

[katymay]

Alysa has very much improved, she's faster, has more flow, is interpreting her programs better, is becoming a little more mature (obviously she is not as mature a skater as Mariah who is almost 10 years older than her), like someone else said you are incredibly biased and being very unfair to Alysa and how she has changed in a year

Alysa has improved a great deal -specifically on the ONLY thing she needs improvement on-which is her basic skating speed. She isn't a powerful skater or jumper, rather she has lighting fast rotation speed. Just like the best of the Russian girls she can land jumps on the fly, almost all of them are easy for Alysa. The quad is there, it just wasn't there last night. Like the rules or not, she is the best (and probably only) chance for the US to move onto the podium in the future. In a way I wish that junior aged had to stay in Juniors-then Mariah could have had her National's moment. I'm sure last year Zhenya and Alina felt the same. As far as rule changes dealing with age-perhaps that would be one I would think about-forcing skaters who are not senior eligible to compete in Juniors in nationals.

 

[blue_idealist]

I think the sport is probably close to its technical limit at this point (though I suppose people have thought that before).

But yeah, it's funny to look back at Torino and all the 3-2 combinations from top medal contenders. I guess Joannie's planned 3-2s in Vancouver were kind of the last gasp of that era. Mariah as she's skating right now could have been a podium contender in Pyeongchang, but that already seems to be past us.

Well, at least unless Wakaba wheels out her 3A like she's been threatening to, I think Mariah is probably the frontrunner for silver at 4CC at least.

Heck, Laura Lepisto won the world bronze in 2010 with mostly double jumps.

 

[natsulian]

IF, and it’s a big if, a US lady manages to capture gold at the next Olympics, the push from the federation/media will need to be sustained and gold medalists will have to keep pouring out. Gold equals buzz and hyper media attention. Silver and bronze? Yeah, they’re medals but are they gold? No. That’s the mentality the public possesses so one medal alone at Worlds or the Olympics will not increase ticket sales. Sports fall and rise with icons and legends and once people stop winning, the public moves onto the next sport that will produce the next big thing. It wasn’t the medals that led to the downfall of ladies’ figure skating post 2006, it was the lack of marketable stars the public cared enough about. Furthermore, when the US finally had talented ladies with the x-factor, they were ridden with nerves and couldn’t produce the sky high results expected of them. A prime example would be the Caroline, Ashley, Mirai, and Gracie era in which, due to their marketability, ladies’ figure skating underwent a small renaissance. However, post 2016 things began to unravel and fall apart. The US is still searching for its next big set of stars and we’ll hold our breaths as the new generation settles in, clearing away the dust of old.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Heck, Laura Lepisto won the world bronze in 2010 with mostly double jumps.

Oh if only Angela Nikodinov could have competed at the same time :sad21:

I love that she represented the US (and I'm certain she was proud too) but I'm sure Bulgaria would have loved to have her. Then it could have happened

 

[Mishaminion]

The ladies have been capable for awhile but plagued by inconsistencies. It is a shame the moment we finally have consistent contenders the sport has moved on from triple programs. Kinda odd to think about how 15 years ago the top contenders didn’t all necessarily have to have consistent 3-3’s and now 3-3’s mean nothing to people, I still think they’re marvelous and a huge athletic feat to perform program after program. I do wonder if in 15 more years if 4-3’s will be old news.

Progress. People felt the same when triples were new and shiny. They got used to it.

There were no real successful quads and very few 3As between 2007 and 2018 in senior ladies either so that can't be blamed for the lack of US ladies success.