I didn't mean to start a fan war or throw Jason under the bus with my initial comment. It was unwise to name names, but this season especially there has been a vast difference in the tone of "constructive criticism" regarding Vincent and virtually everyone else (at least in the forums I visit). I was using Jason as an example: On another board with nearly 700 comments on the men's thread, I don't think I read a single negative thing about him. Rather, it was basically "atta boy!" and "he's got this!" and "it's coming!" over and over. Comments about Vincent's long program ranged from "lmao" to "I love to see his score go down like a doomsday clock," etc. etc. etc. repeated ad nauseum. That *is* hate, it's just mean, and I feel sorry for him if he's exposed to it. During nationals, even Tara acknowledged she and Johnny are really harsh regarding Vincent and diminish what a talent he actually is (paraphrasing here). Oh well, I can't police the Internet and it's a free country and all that. Regardless, I wish all our guys well at Worlds!
2019 4CCs: Men's FS
- Thread starter gsk8
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That's true!
Leave out the word "ballerina," which only invites ridicule ('he lands on his toes like a dancing bear' would be better) -- but he does land way up on his toe pick. This raises the question on whether the weight is on the full blade, etc., that we have discussed before in the context of under-rotations.
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- Mar 15, 2018
Vincent does himself no favors with some of his comments. But Tom Z makes it really worst.
Tom feels like he has someone that is on Hanyu, Shoma, and Nathan level which is very laughable. I think I read an article where Tom says Vincent does more technically and can challenge Nathan. Really?!
He is building him up so much, but he can't perform. Which makes Vincent be the target, while Tom sits and let Vincent get the attack.
It does feel like Vincent is in the way of Jason for some of his fans and probably where the negativity comes from because Vincent can do the quads but lower performance, and Jason can't, but has the performance.
But the technical in this sport is very important and no skater can live on performance to reach the top.
I think this will be worst if there were only 2 spots for Worlds because it looks like it would go to Vincent given his performance so far and recently at 4cc. Yes, he underrotates but still can reach higher position than Jason.
And this is where Jason's limitations are. If only he can do the quads. I think people can see him be 2nd, but he can't and it is holding him back as many are moving forward with it.
I was surprised at Tomoki and his quad toe, and he is at Junior this year and will be Senior next year.
Internationally, although he underrotates some, Jun added quads. Matteo added his quad. Also, Aymoz added it. New skaters are putting quads right away in their program this year. And it does make a difference in the rankings as we can see.
Tom feels like he has someone that is on Hanyu, Shoma, and Nathan level which is very laughable. I think I read an article where Tom says Vincent does more technically and can challenge Nathan. Really?!
He is building him up so much, but he can't perform. Which makes Vincent be the target, while Tom sits and let Vincent get the attack.
It does feel like Vincent is in the way of Jason for some of his fans and probably where the negativity comes from because Vincent can do the quads but lower performance, and Jason can't, but has the performance.
But the technical in this sport is very important and no skater can live on performance to reach the top.
I think this will be worst if there were only 2 spots for Worlds because it looks like it would go to Vincent given his performance so far and recently at 4cc. Yes, he underrotates but still can reach higher position than Jason.
And this is where Jason's limitations are. If only he can do the quads. I think people can see him be 2nd, but he can't and it is holding him back as many are moving forward with it.
I was surprised at Tomoki and his quad toe, and he is at Junior this year and will be Senior next year.
Internationally, although he underrotates some, Jun added quads. Matteo added his quad. Also, Aymoz added it. New skaters are putting quads right away in their program this year. And it does make a difference in the rankings as we can see.
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- Jun 21, 2003
(OT for Four Continents, but 
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- Jun 13, 2018
Shoma put on a fight and win it with an injury!! There's fire in his eyes and totally deserve to win.....though I think the judging panel are rather generous to him, some landings are not solid and I do not think it should be such a high score for the FS
Junhwan, he had a great season, surprised of his SP score, quite generous! I think even Brian himself is surprised, then the UR calls are back for the FS....I mean hey, give me some consistency in judging ok!? (when they are more lenient to Shoma) ?!
Jason, glad that he tried that 4S!! not quite there yet but great to see him do it in a big competition and getting better! He really is a beautiful performer.
Keegan, totally enjoyed his FS!!
Vincent, I think he is really far from a total package, the judges are too generous for the SP, breaking 100!!?? totally baffled!! UR not called, and then they becoming much stricter in the FS. In my opinion, his PCS should really be lower, sorry, I really do not like a skater who can just jump and all that skating skills, musicality, performance, artistry is still not quite there, there should be a larger margin between him and the top skaters.
Judging is so inconsistent in this event....
Junhwan, he had a great season, surprised of his SP score, quite generous! I think even Brian himself is surprised, then the UR calls are back for the FS....I mean hey, give me some consistency in judging ok!? (when they are more lenient to Shoma) ?!
Jason, glad that he tried that 4S!! not quite there yet but great to see him do it in a big competition and getting better! He really is a beautiful performer.
Keegan, totally enjoyed his FS!!
Vincent, I think he is really far from a total package, the judges are too generous for the SP, breaking 100!!?? totally baffled!! UR not called, and then they becoming much stricter in the FS. In my opinion, his PCS should really be lower, sorry, I really do not like a skater who can just jump and all that skating skills, musicality, performance, artistry is still not quite there, there should be a larger margin between him and the top skaters.
Judging is so inconsistent in this event....
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- Feb 28, 2012
This is a general question, so please delete it if it is not appropriate. Reading these discussion above, I am wondering if there is the class for the skaters/athletes for learning how to respond to the media in the training camp in USA (and other countries)? Because I remember Akiko Suzuki said before that Japan has that now in summer camp and young skaters learn how to answer the media's questions and so on.
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- Dec 5, 2015
I think people need to learn to separate judges scoring from the skaters themselves. A lot of people hate Shoma because the technical panel doesn't call his 4F PR. (so many skaters PR but people like to pick on certain ones) People used to hate Medvedeva because the technical panel didn't call her flutz. (the technical panel doesn't call a lot of skaters flutzes). Adelina got so much hate from people because of Sochi. (she skated wonderfully--- not the best of the night? Sure, I agree(Mao, Yuna, Carolina and maybe even Gracie were better imho) but she did not get to determine how she was scored) People hate Samarin or Zhou because they get higher PCS scores than they truly deserve and other skaters who are truly special like Jason don't get high enough PCS. Then other people complain when Jason gets high GOE on jumps that aren't quads. No one is ever happy. I think it is fine to question the judges decisions. But, in the end the skaters just go out there and do the best they possibly can. Zhou is not underrotating because he wants to. Samarin doesn't have the power to force the judges to give him that PCS. You should never blame or hate skaters because of the mistakes of the judging or technical panel.
It was a great men's event. Almost everyone showed us the best skates they possibly could given each of their artistic and technical limitations. I hope that Worlds will be the same. It has been such a long time since a men's event has been so full of personal success.
It was a great men's event. Almost everyone showed us the best skates they possibly could given each of their artistic and technical limitations. I hope that Worlds will be the same. It has been such a long time since a men's event has been so full of personal success.
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American skaters do get media training at US “Champs Camp”, or at least they have in the past. That said, that is only a class or at most a day, and the main function of the camp is monitoring programs.
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And this is not directed to your post, but jumping off to @Skylark’s point that “many” complaints come from Jason fans who seem “threatened” by Vincent”. I’m not sure such an assertion is helpful
Hey, El
. Sorry, but your above wording isn't what I wrote, and what I wrote doesn't mean that. Your sentence has the subject/verb construction of "complaints/come ..." My sentence has the subject/verb construction of "many/seem." I apologize to everyone for seeming like a grammar schoolmarm, but there you go .... 
I get that you felt my wording wasn't helpful... but what I said was an impression only, and I believe that I worded it that way. I do try not to state my impressions as facts, but I'll work on it further. Here's the quote from my post.
I'm gonna let this go now. I do feel for Vincent, and that's why I spoke up. That may be because I feel something when he skates; he communicates something good to me. Not to everyone, but to me and many others.
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So true! And so lacking in splats in the final group!
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So I was at the event and wow what a great time! The last group was sooo fun to watch, ur calls be darned. I wanna give a special shoutout to Donovan Carrillo from Mexico! I had never even heard of him before this event but he had the crowd in the palm of his hand from the moment he took the ice. Just a super fun skater to watch. Tbh I almost get shades of like 2007 Javi. With a lot of honing and refinement Donovan could be a real contender....Definitely gonna be paying attention to his career now!
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Donovan :luv17:
Even if the FS here was not his best, his charm shone through. I am soooooo glad to see Donovan attract more and more fans
I first saw him in a summer comp I attended in 2017 (alerted by a kind GSer to keep an eye out for him) and have been a fangirl ever since. And to be invited to the gala was quite the honor:agree: I pray he gets the financial and other support he needs and deserves
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- Jul 28, 2003
Well, there's no question that my favorite performance goes to...Tomoki Hiwatashi.Really, he had the absolute skate of his LIFE. His reaction was also adorable.
I've got many complaints at the judging but they are the usual ones. I won't repeat them.
Shoma, Boyang and Keegan of the final group skated marvelously. Regardless of my thoughts of the final podium placements, I salute them and thank them for their dedication and making us fans happy to watch them.
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However, I feel Keegan has a right to feel cheated of a Bronze here. He deserved it.
I agree, Keegan should have the Bronze. He skated with his heart on his sleeve
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It really was a fun time wasn't it?! The third group didn't do too much for me, but that fourth group made up for everyone else. There was an electricity in the air that made it super fun. Donovan is so awesome, and I was very happy to see there is a Go Fund Me type thing for him to help him with his training. There is more info on it in his FF for anyone who is interested. He keeps collecting more and more fans!
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I’ve noticed this too. It makes me instinctively want to defend him even if I understand some of the criticisms.
Plus it’s not like Vincent himself is on the technical panel. Purely as a skater (social media not being something his skating should be judged by) he seems like he wants to improve and performance wise he has improved imo.
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I feel like Vincent really wants to improve his performance and connection to the audience and I can really tell that he’s been putting in the work on that front, which I appreciate.
But his attitude (and his coach’s) attitude to his technical flaws is extremely off-putting to me. There, instead of working to improve, it often seems like he’s actively resisting the idea of working on fixes, and instead he’s playing victim and calling foul and anything else to avoid taking personal responsibility. I have a hard time feeling up to defending Vincent from criticism because basically every time he makes a comment about tech I just wanna shake him and shout “no!” and it does sort of influence my perception of him, personally.
I´m a fan of Zhou and think that it does not matter one bit what Brown fans are thinking of Zhou´s skating or other possible shortcomings, LOL. The only thing what matters is what the judges are thinking of his skating. If he again and again is getting UR´s for his quads and some triples, it is a very serious matter. I hope that his team is seriously working to correct these problems. Unfortunately the sp judges at 4CC sent a totally wrong message to him. Anyway, Zhou is only 18 = a teenager, there will be time for him to correct these problems, if his his team is not consisting of plain idiots....
Brown managed to jump one underrotated "quad" in this competition, but it still is not a real quad. What he manages to do in practices, does not matter, a competition is and will be much, much harder. Besides, he still keeps jumping UR triple axels, at least now and then.
Brown managed to jump one underrotated "quad" in this competition, but it still is not a real quad. What he manages to do in practices, does not matter, a competition is and will be much, much harder. Besides, he still keeps jumping UR triple axels, at least now and then.
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Aaaaand attention Mrs Pot, we have Ms Kettle on line 1.... honestly, hasn't everyone gotten sick of this? (Obviously not).
Most of the harshest criticism I've seen of Zhou was from people who don't care at all about Jason Brown, they just don't care for him enough to make allowances for HIM. That may be unfair, but that's a fact of life where fans are concerned.
You're bashing another skater while complaining about someone bashing yours. Please people... let's go back to the skating, hmmm????
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We should be so lucky.
