2024 4CCs: Men's thoughts?

[gsk8]

Yuma Kagiyama wins first Four Continents title

2024 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships: Men Yuma Kagiyama of Japan won his first Four Continents title in Shanghai on Saturday. And he did it with 32.99 points to spare. Teammate Shun […]

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Nice to see Cha coming back to form!

Kagiyama is really wrapped up with his "300-mark" so I hope he takes a chance to really appreciate what he's putting out there instead of focusing on his scores.

What are your thoughts on the Men's event?

 

[Dreamer57]

It was a good event. It seemed pretty easy to predict that Yuma would be champion, but the final group all gave really engaging, high tech skates so that was fun to watch. I would have given Jun higher PCS, as well as Boyang who is looking a lot more refined with his skating.

I was impressed with Wesley and he proved he is quite cool under pressure.
I also really liked Yudong and Juheon, I think they have good musicality and hope they can grow in future.

A little bit underwhelmed with the audience not engaging much unless it was to support native skaters (the plushies for Boyang were great). I also wonder why Shanghai didn't have the men's free or even pairs last. The turnout for the rhythm dance was low so it doesn't promise a lot for the free dance, maybe the weekend audience will be bigger?

 

[4everchan]

Yuma is a full package skater. He is excellent. Give him real programs and I will be 100 percent happy. His 4s is so awesome. Wow. His skating skills are unmatched. The flow and continuous effortless skating reminds me of
<============

Jun : how not to like him ? Gorgeous skating, elegant skater. He has his own trademark style and moves like his gorgeous 3lz-3lo his ina bauer and his layback position on his spin. I adore him.

Shun is a lot of fun. Exciting young skater.

I was impressed with Boyang in the SP more than in the LP. To me, in the latter, he did look a bit like he used to back then. His polishing isn't quite yet finished. His PCS scoring was very fair I believe (76).

On the whole American and Canadian skaters were not at the same level as the Japanese skaters and Cha.
I am happy Wesley held it together. Roman has one of the most beautiful set of programs this year. I hope the few weeks before worlds will be enough for him to improve on delivering his content. Yes, I am pretty sure that W and R will be named on the team.
Conrad has a lot to overcome, at the same time, it's strange as he has improved tons on his basic skating and spins. I enjoy watching the in betweens with him at this point.. and I guess it's good since there was not much to look for after the first two quads.

Edrian : I adore his skating and i want this Montreal born Filipino to earn his subway ticket to Bell Center. May he get his LP tech minimums soon. I think he has one or two chances left.

I am not going to jump on the Misha bandwagon yet but I will mention him to recognize his potential. To me, he is on the Ilia trajectory of having strong jumping assets but needing to develop the rest.

This was really a highlight event so far. 4CC men event is often the highlight for me, year after year.

 

[el henry]

4CC Men really is traditionally the top tier of a top tier event, and it did not disappoint.

First, the faves:
1. Andrew T. Two great skates. I hope when he does come back further from his injuries that he takes it nice and slow, increases the jumps in his program nice and slow, and continues to highlight that beautiful blade to ice work that is second to none.
HIs SP is and I do hope he keeps it for another year.

2. Donovan The SP was rough, and the FS not perfect, but good enough with that Donovan sass and charm. Also highlighting, as he has said he wants to do, the music of his country for skating audiences and for the worlds.

Leaderboard:

1. Yuma. Wow has his presentation improved. And no, I am not some philistine who loves miming and aping, I appreciate beautiful bladework (See Andrew T. ), but Yuma has brought more passion to his skates. The work with Caro appears to be paying off.

2. Boyang. First, plushie heaven, I it! Also, talk about improving and refining performance skills, especially in that SP.

Too many more to talk about, but always a great comp.

 

[lariko]

I think about the only thing I didn’t expect in top six wax that Jin would be back after quite a long string of troubled competitions. Lots of things made me happy, like Naumov's holding it together, and Sato getting better scoring, Cha being back and healthy, and Shaidorov finally getting mostly above 7s. Still find Kagiyama about as expressive as a white sheet of paper and still not sure what's the big deal about his jumps.

 

[moonvine]

Plushie rain! Very exciting.

 

[ShirleyCW]

Men's competition has been excellent. 17 out of 27 participants set a PB or a SB in the short and 14 out of 24 in the free. There was a cutoff for the free, first time since 2020, which made the competition a bit more exciting at the lower level. Hopefully, the field will continue to grow.

Top 10 really delivered, with exciting performances from the medalists Cha, Kagiyama, and Sato. It was great to see Sato set a PB in PCS in the free; he's improved his presentation this year which is now being reflected in the scores. Cha, making a comeback from the disappointing first half of the season, delivered compelling performances, and seemed genuinely pleased with his placement.

 

[Weathergal]

Men's competition has been excellent. 17 out of 27 participants set a PB or a SB in the short and 14 out of 24 in the free. There was a cutoff for the free, first since 2020, which made the competition a bit more exciting at the lower level. Hopefully, the field will continue to grow.

Top 10 really delivered, with exciting performances from the medalists Cha, Kagiyama, and Sato. It was great to see Sato set a PB in PCS in the free; he's improved his presentation this year which is now been reflected in the scores. Cha, making a comeback from the disappointing first half of the season, delivered compelling performances, and seemed genuinely pleased with his placement.

Welcome to Golden Skate! Post long and often!

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I think the most exciting thing about Yuma is that he can be even better, and he knows it. He is already planning to improve his spins for Worlds, and while I think his programs this season are good, he can absolutely get better material. His exhibition to Werther is a great example of the potential he has as a performer and skater. The use of edges, the control of speed, the musicality of the spins, the jumps from nowhere, the figures to open... just divine. He is considering using the program for his 2025-26 SP, and I so hope he does. I think his SP this season isn't the best music choice for him, but the step sequence really shows off his speed and edge control. In contrast, I think the FS step sequence is incredibly technically difficult and well-matched to the music, but trying to execute all of these difficult turns interrupts that speed and run of the blade that sets him apart. Hopefully, his programs next season are even better at playing to his strengths, and he does plan to get new programs. Yuma plans to head to Canada early to work with Lori on his FS and wants to improve his spins and expression before that event. He will continue to up his technical arsenal and work with Coach Caro on the skating and performance, and I am sure we will see even greater brilliance from him in the years to come.

Still find Kagiyama about as expressive as a white sheet of paper and still not sure what's the big deal about his jumps.

Yuma has really good ice coverage on his quads. He jumps halfway across the short end of the rink on his 4S, and has great flow out of pretty much everything. He also has one of the best knee bends in the world on the landing, a deep sustained outside edge, and good extension. In terms of what the judges look for, here are the GOE bullet points for jumps:

1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence)
2) good take-off and landing
3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in jump combo or sequence)
4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good body position from take-off to landing
6) element matches the music

He usually ticks four to five of the requirements (he does tend to telegraph a bit and not everything is musically phrased). Jump technique preference is subjective, like everything in skating, and it's fine if his jumps don't do anything for you. However, the judges run with him on GOE because he fulfills so many of the GOE requirements, and people like them because they look pretty and effortless.

 

[Seven Sisters]

Watched on replay last night. My completely unsolicited opinions:

Sadovsky’s new LP is gorgeous and I hope he keeps it for next year, so more people can see it.

Torgashev has made huge strides forward in his competitive mindset, and his SP, and overall skills and artistry, amaze me.

Sato keeps getting stronger and stronger and should never be overlooked. I consistently enjoy him, and his programs.

Kagiyama’s jump technique is so perfect, and he has definitely put more effort into his presentation, but even still, I sort of get the feeling that he is going through the motions, instead of truly connecting with his music.

And, watching Cha, I wished that we could have a scoring point for Drama, because he would get a .5 GOE on that every time. Also—I’m always amazed that when doing his jump combos, he often gets higher elevation on the second jump than he does on the first. Truly, I don’t know how he does that

 

[Olly96]

Congratulations to Yuma, Shun and Jun on their well-deserved medals!

The last four men in the short program going clean was absolutely fantastic. I was so happy for them!

So proud of Shun for getting a new personal best in the short and nearly crossing the 100 point marker as well as landing his 4Lz beautifully in both the short and the free. I'm very excited to see where his development will take him!

Very happy to see Jun back on track and winning a medal here. He is always so breathtaking to watch.

Yuma - wonderful as always, and so fast and agile that I start sweating just watching him skate

 

[skatingfan4ever]

I am not fully caught up yet (TOO MUCH SKATING TO WATCH IN 2 WEEKS!), but I will say this:

4CC confirmed why mens is my favorite discipline these days. So much wonderful skating all the way down the standings, not only jump-wise but with skating skills and choreography. Womens is not as exciting anymore; I don't know why most womens programs blend together for me now, whereas the men can still be individuals on the ice.

Well done to the top finishers, for sure. And I'd like to point out that Andrew Torgashev got a PB in the FS with no quad and only one 3A, and a total score PB with no quad in either program, not to mention maintaining his place in the standings after the short! If he can continue to skate this calmly once he adds more jump difficulty (and stay healthy in the process), watch out world! I've never seen him this calm and business-like, while still showing his passionate artistry! And he's not at full strength because he's been injured again, and the Nationals Free was on Sunday afternoon! Incredible!!!

Bravo to the US skaters in all disciplines for making it through this competition! You all have earned a well-deserved break!

I must get off GS now and back to real life, for at least a few days!

 

[sadya]

Same here, even though the ladies competition was exciting, I did enjoy the Men's event more. When I began watching skating in the 90s, it was the other way around. And not bad for a 4CC. Yesterday I was thinking about the "prestige" of a 4CC nowadays vs in the first years. I really do enjoy watching it as much as a Europeans.

 

[DancingCactus]

last year 4CC was pretty dire if I remember correctly, but this year was really good especially in Men so I guess it depends on the yearly offerings xd

 

[el henry]

I guess I am an outlier but I have never bought into the narrative that 4CC is less "prestigious" than Europeans. As far as men are concerned, 4CC has always been the place to be:

2024: Yuma, Shun, Jun
2023: Kao, Keegan, Shun
2022: Jun, Kazuki, Kao
2020: Yuzuru, Jason, Yuma
2019: Shoma, Boyang, Vincent

I could go but I won't, and those are just the medalists. Not to mention skaters like Donovan Carrillo, who will never medal but are always worth watching.

I love me some of the European men, but not nearly the field that 4CC always has

 

[SubRosa]

Not quite as OTT emotional as Euro men, but stellar nonetheless. Montreal is going to be lit. Was briefly inspired to consider making the trek to Montreal in March, but logistics inhibit.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yuma is a full package skater. He is excellent. Give him real programs and I will be 100 percent happy. His 4s is so awesome. Wow. His skating skills are unmatched. The flow and continuous effortless skating reminds me of
<============

Jun : how not to like him ? Gorgeous skating, elegant skater. He has his own trademark style and moves like his gorgeous 3lz-3lo his ina bauer and his layback position on his spin. I adore him.

Shun is a lot of fun. Exciting young skater.

I was impressed with Boyang in the SP more than in the LP. To me, in the latter, he did look a bit like he used to back then. His polishing isn't quite yet finished. His PCS scoring was very fair I believe (76).

On the whole American and Canadian skaters were not at the same level as the Japanese skaters and Cha.
I am happy Wesley held it together. Roman has one of the most beautiful set of programs this year. I hope the few weeks before worlds will be enough for him to improve on delivering his content. Yes, I am pretty sure that W and R will be named on the team.
Conrad has a lot to overcome, at the same time, it's strange as he has improved tons on his basic skating and spins. I enjoy watching the in betweens with him at this point.. and I guess it's good since there was not much to look for after the first two quads.

Edrian : I adore his skating and i want this Montreal born Filipino to earn his subway ticket to Bell Center. May he get his LP tech minimums soon. I think he has one or two chances left.

I am not going to jump on the Misha bandwagon yet but I will mention him to recognize his potential. To me, he is on the Ilia trajectory of having strong jumping assets but needing to develop the rest.

This was really a highlight event so far. 4CC men event is often the highlight for me, year after year.

I agree with much of your assessment actually it all. I do wonder whether Boyang and Cha will be consistent enough at worlds. Your bold prediction of Roman going to worlds was interesting. HIs poor showing a Nationals and little competition this year is my fear. Also, in the past he has choked or done poorly at worlds. I believe twice not making the free skate. or perhaps that included the Olympics? He has the potential to be a Jason Brown with quads or better yet a Patrick Chan though Patrick's edges were sublime. I really enjoyed Andrew's skaing Disappointed Max couldn't do his best here. I think Conrad doing poorly here might have jeopordized his chances to go to worlds. Admittedly I know he has been working on things but like a lot of skaters because he tricks are so big and hard he does seem to skate from trick to trick - granted many men are like that. As exciting as the quads are the quality of skating and programs has dropped.

 

[4everchan]

I agree with much of your assessment actually it all. I do wonder whether Boyang and Cha will be consistent enough at worlds. Your bold prediction of Roman going to worlds was interesting. HIs poor showing a Nationals and little competition this year is my fear. Also, in the past he has choked or done poorly at worlds. I believe twice not making the free skate. or perhaps that included the Olympics? He has the potential to be a Jason Brown with quads or better yet a Patrick Chan though Patrick's edges were sublime. I really enjoyed Andrew's skaing Disappointed Max couldn't do his best here. I think Conrad doing poorly here might have jeopordized his chances to go to worlds. Admittedly I know he has been working on things but like a lot of skaters because he tricks are so big and hard he does seem to skate from trick to trick - granted many men are like that. As exciting as the quads are the quality of skating and programs has dropped.

well we agree on many things. My prediction about Roman is not so much about what he did... but about what Conrad didn't do.
In such a case, Skate Canada has two options really. Send them both to another event to fight for it... (they won't do that) or send the highest scorer to appear fair. I think that means Roman.

What I am confident about : Roman can earn high 7s in PCS even with a poor skate. Conrad has never earned high 7s in PCS internationally. So if Skate Canada is looking at BV, they would pick Conrad, but then, looking at potential highest score, it's Roman, based on his PCS cushion. PCS cushion could make a difference qualifying for the LP. Conrad didn't do too badly last year but didn't qualify.

 

[ladyjane]

I had a truly lovely evening watching the men's. Even the lower ranks were exciting, and I'm not only referring to Donovan (whom I love) but many others just as well. Edrian, Andrew, Darian, Maxim, etc. etc. A competition like that is such a highlight, with all these wonderful skates and a great top 3.

 

[ShirleyCW]

well we agree on many things. My prediction about Roman is not so much about what he did... but about what Conrad didn't do.
In such a case, Skate Canada has two options really. Send them both to another event to fight for it... (they won't do that) or send the highest scorer to appear fair. I think that means Roman.

What I am confident about : Roman can earn high 7s in PCS even with a poor skate. Conrad has never earned high 7s in PCS internationally. So if Skate Canada is looking at BV, they would pick Conrad, but then, looking at potential highest score, it's Roman, based on his PCS cushion. PCS cushion could make a difference qualifying for the LP. Conrad didn't do too badly last year but didn't qualify.

To be fair to Conrad Orzel, IIRC, his blade broke in practice at 2023 Worlds and had to be emergency replaced, so he was not able to perform to his full potential. But, it does look like Roman Sadovsky will be going to Worlds, just based off the fact that he did better at 4CC, and that Skate Canada does not have any other options besides these two skaters.