2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

... Does anyone know anything regarding my queries about Mozer being listed as a coach for Knierim/Frazier? And why is Raf not listed as working with Calalang/Johnson, when C/J can clearly benefit from specialized jump-coach advice!?

Articles previewing Nats have some answers for you.
I do not have links to the articles at my fingertips, and I do not remember how many articles I saw. But IIRC, they were from "usual suspect" sources -- such as Fan Zone, TeamUSA.org, NBC, Olympic Channel?

I only glanced at the articles ... IIRC, Calalang works on jumps with one of Raf's assistants.

At least one article covered the topic of Mozer's work with K/F, but I do not trust my memory to try to give details.
 
I was looking at the 2021 U.S. Championships program booklet available on fanzone site. When I checked out the pairs bios, I was surprised to see Nina Mozer listed as one of Knierim/Frazier's six coaches!

The list of coaches in order:
Todd Sand, Jenni Meno, Chris Knierim, Nina Mozer, Christine Binder, Rafael Arutunian

Huh? Since when is Nina Mozer on board as one of the coaches for K/F? Was Mozer previously listed as one of the Knierims' coaches??? Is this listing simply a formality?

I thought it was strictly Meno/Sand, Binder who were coaching K/F. I understand Chris now being listed in his transition to coaching, and Raf since he had previously been working with the Knierims on jumps. But when did Mozer come aboard, I wonder? Is this a Zoom long-distance coaching thing?
Yes, the most recent article I read about K/F mentioned that they have two Zoom sessions a week with Mozer. As for a reason, aside from those you mentioned, maybe they're working with her to increase their international credibility? But if that's the case, why not C/J also? Maybe it's a question of finances. Maybe USFS is investing more in K/F? I don't know. The Knierims seem to have worked with Mozer at one or more of her camps in the past. At practices in the past couple of years, I've seen Alexa make a beeline over to Mozer for a quick "hi," even when Mozer was standing with C-G/L's coaches, presumably to concentrate and working with C-G/L.


Another question I have is why the heck Raf is not listed as one of Calalang/Johnson's coaches? If anyone needs to be working with a skilled jumps coach, C/J do! The only coaches listed for C/J are Todd, Jenni, and Christine. Is it that Meno/Sand prefer to keep their home-grown pair formally under their aegis?

Other than what @icecoverage answered, maybe Raf has too full a schedule? I don't know. My hope would be that Raf's assistant would really strengthen the jump technique that C/J have, as opposed to re-working it, (knowing about the famous "two years" that Raf aims for).
 
Yes, the most recent article I read about K/F mentioned that they have two Zoom sessions a week with Mozer. As for a reason, aside from those you mentioned, maybe they're working with her to increase their international credibility? But if that's the case, why not C/J also? Maybe it's a question of finances. Maybe USFS is investing more in K/F? I don't know. The Knierims seem to have worked with Mozer at one or more of her camps in the past. At practices in the past couple of years, I've seen Alexa make a beeline over to Mozer for a quick "hi," even when Mozer was standing with C-G/L's coaches, presumably to concentrate and working with C-G/L.




Other than what @icecoverage answered, maybe Raf has too full a schedule? I don't know. My hope would be that Raf's assistant would really strengthen the jump technique that C/J have, as opposed to re-working it, (knowing about the famous "two years" that Raf aims for).

I mean wow is right! Could you link the article you read about K/F's sessions with Mozer? I mean what is it about Mozer that people love so much? She must truly have some kind of tech or coaching guidance fairy dust in order to be so in demand by U.S. fed and U.S. pairs skaters. My word! I know she has a track record with certain Russian teams. But it looks like she's doing mostly consultant work these days, while Moskvina and other pairs coaches are more directly active rinkside these days. I'm sure Mozer still offers assistance to Tarasova/Morosov when needed. But T/M clearly also have Max Trankov and Marina Zoueva. And now of course, also the retired veteran skater whose name escapes the tip of my tongue!

Sure, it's clear that Mozer working with C-G/L has helped them a great deal. But Ashley still touches her arms down on Timothy's left shoulder in the dismount. For some reason, that doesn't seem to be called. Or maybe they just don't give them as much GOE? It seems to me that the contact is mostly missed by tech panel because maybe where they land the dismount makes it not clearly visible to the judges that there was contact?

Do you know someone in the sport that gives you some insider skinny? ;)

Yes, I agree that C/J don't need their jumps reworked. It's more about confidence and believing in themselves. They both seem to get so nervous going into their jumps. Otherwise, I don't see tech issues, just nervousness and worry about the other person because they are both trying to land in sync, and not sure their partner is going to land. Jessica clearly was rattled in one of the ISP fp performances when Brian fell on the first sbs jump. Jessica landed it beautifully, but then she became rattled and they had to move into the next jumping pass immediately, where they both messed up. Purely a mental issue.

Plus the technique on their throws is a work-in-progress. C/J said in an interview that trying to adjust to different throw techniques has been one of the things that took them the most time to figure out, and they are still a bit tentative going into the throws. In general, they've landed their throws okay because Jessica has a cat-like ability to land -- she has a very strong core/ back, and lovely posture. They get huge height on their throws, but very little distance. That would seem to indicate a need for Brian to adjust how he's throwing I suppose. Or else work on increasing or modulating speed moving into the throws, or some other adjustment.

These seem to be the fine-tuning details that are so hard to figure out and then solve because it involves learned muscle habits that are hard to rework, I'm guessing. Sean Rabbitt spoke on the Beyond the Rink podcast (Episode 11) regarding a leg wrap he had, which it took a long time for him to work on and eliminate.

ETA:
International credibility simply because Mozer is consulting with them??? Again, what is it about Mozer that gives skaters more credibility because she's working with them? Her former success track record in pairs? Meno/Sand have a good and consistent track record in certain aspects of coaching too. It's just that the U.S. fed hasn't placed a ton of backing, political or otherwise, behind their pairs teams. For starters, they need to work on eliminating this knee-jerk and unfair dissing of U.S. pairs skaters. A lot of people in the skating community have their eyes glued to U.S. pairs (copying moves, etc), while at the same time there's still this attitude of looking down on U.S. pairs. That attitude needs to cease, because it's not just about results. Political savvy helps results in terms of how judges weigh GOE and rep. We've got some top-notch teams, but they need political support.

I don't know why U.S. fed thinks credibility can only come from Russian coaches. If that's true, then why is it true? Get the technical knowledge they have and capitalize on it. Rusfed checks out other trends happening among other athletes/countries and copies those trends for their own advantage. Russia was not a powerhouse in any discipline, until they began to take off in the 1960s in pairs due solely to the balletic evolution created by Belousova/Protopopov (a pair whom Rusfed did not even like, because they were considered too old by -- except that they were valued for their balletic innovations internationally).
 
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Thanks for the reminder about the competition chat being in this thread, with all the questions about start times and other skaters who are not U.S. skaters. I'm not sure why posters are querying about the competition in this thread.

I hope that my query about K/F's coaching staff is not supposed to be in a competition thread??? I thought it was more appropriate here since it's not talking about the actual competition.
 
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I believe everybody is seeing the "competition chat" reminder, and it's not aimed at a particular post or poster. I am seeing it on threads I have only read, not participated in!
 
Huh? Since when is Nina Mozer on board as one of the coaches for K/F? Was Mozer previously listed as one of the Knierims' coaches??? Is this listing simply a formality?

So, I accidentally came across information about Mozer's role -- sounds like, to come up with a plan for the training sessions. According to the article, it's often more than Meno/Sand think is possible, but the skaters usually accomplish it. Also, this article mentions 2 zoom calls with Mozer each week, but it sounds like the calls are with Jeni and Todd. So, I'm unsure now whether Alexa and Brandon said they personally have two sessions a week with her.

For those crucial details, they turn back to their plan, created with the help of Nina Mozer and written in coach Meno’s notebook.
 
I mean wow is right! Could you link the article you read about K/F's sessions with Mozer? I mean what is it about Mozer that people love so much? She must truly have some kind of tech or coaching guidance fairy dust in order to be so in demand by U.S. fed and U.S. pairs skaters. My word! I know she has a track record with certain Russian teams. But it looks like she's doing mostly consultant work these days,

Okay, I did find it, and this article says Alexa and Brandon do 2 zoom sessions a week with Mozer. https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...ierim-and-brandon-frazier-as-individuals.aspx

As to your question, what is it about Mozer that people love? Evgenia Tarasova and Ashley Cain-Gribble have both said in (obviously separate, unrelated interviews) that Mozer gives them confidence. Tarasova specifically said that if she was worried or obsessing over something, Nina would take some small detail for her to focus on, and tell her that "if you do that, everything will be fine." Ashley's remarks were similar, something like Mozer makes her calm by having her pay attention to just one small thing. And she makes it sound easy. And then, the all-important (IMHO) reassurance and affirmation. She makes them feel like they can do this, and they're already doing it.

Put that together with what Meno/Sand said about her skill at making a plan for training sessions that accomplish more than is thought possible, and one begins to get a better picture of how Mozer has gotten such results and acclaim as a coach.
 
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Thanks for the reminder about the competition chat being in this thread, with all the questions about start times and other skaters who are not U.S. skaters. I'm not sure why that's being posted in this thread.

I hope that my query about K/F's coaching staff is not supposed to be in a competition thread??? I thought it was more appropriate here since it's not talking about the actual competition.
6 coaches seems to be a huge amount. I don’t know the answer to your question but Is that a normal amount of coaches to have?
 
Do you know someone in the sport that gives you some insider skinny? ;)
:rofl:
ETA:
International credibility simply because Mozer is consulting with them??? Again, what is it about Mozer that gives skaters more credibility because she's working with them? Her former success track record in pairs? Meno/Sand have a good and consistent track record in certain aspects of coaching too. It's just that the U.S. fed hasn't placed a ton of backing, political or otherwise, behind their pairs teams. For starters, they need to work on eliminating this knee-jerk and unfair dissing of U.S. pairs skaters. A lot of people in the skating community have their eyes glued to U.S. pairs (copying moves, etc), while at the same time there's still this attitude of looking down on U.S. pairs. That attitude needs to cease, because it's not just about results. Political savvy helps results in terms of how judges weigh GOE and rep. We've got some top-notch teams, but they need political support.

I think I've seen other GS members post something to the effect of this, that working with Mozer helps. In the same way that working with Tamara Moskvina instantly gives her pairs skaters a boost up in international circles/eyes.

I've read a couple of translations of very long interviews of Nina Mozer that were fascinating and gave some insight into her influence over her skaters and how she's able to help them. One thing really impressed me: It was a Russian interviewer who asked something like, but why are you giving help to skaters from other countries? She said that her goal was to raise everyone's level of skating together, not just the Russians. Pretty cool. :cool:
 
Sergei Voronov
Exactly. I don't know why I couldn't exactly remember. LOL

During the NBCSN coverage, Jessica mentioned in an interview that she's been 'working with Raf's assistant' on reworking her jump technique. So that partly answers my earlier question in this thread. But what about Brian? Both Jessica and Brian have problems on their jumps. I personally think it's more of a mental obstacle, with probably some physical adjustments needed too.

Plus Jessica's explanation that she's having problems due to thinking about the changes she has to make going into jumps is not good to hear. Brian & Jessica should both be getting help more with their nerves and with not worrying about each other going into their jumps. If changing technique is not going to be a quick fix, why are they doing that now? Do they think during this pandemic season they will have more time for Jessica to adjust? And once again, Brian needs some help too, so is he also working with 'Raf's assistant'?

Do only Alexa/Brandon rate working directly with Raf? I think Jenni/Todd need to ensure that Jessica/Brian and Alexa/Brandon are treated as equals at their rink. Brandon is 28; Alexa is 29; and both Jessica and Brian are 25. So just a three to four year age difference between the teams. While Alexa/Brandon are a bit more veteran and both have been U.S. National champions with their former partners, Jessica/Brian are a quality team who are also needed to perform well on the international stage. Both teams in tandem are needed to help push the U.S. pairs discipline forward, along with other teams such as C-G/L who are also veterans whom the U.S. would be foolish to continue treating overly harshly in the scoring.

I wonder how long K/F will continue. Hopefully past the next Olympics year, but there's no guarantee since Alexa is 29 and counting. After this Olympics, K/F both may be looking to retire or else give it one more year past the Olympics should they build continued great success.
 
Sergei Voronov
??? Anyways Iam really sensingthatthejudges like and rooting for Knerim and Frazier. In fact they look likeworldmedallists and Canada canforgett staying ahead of the US. They don't h ave a chance. This US pairis favoured in every way and has goten their act together so quickly.

I wonder how Chris really feels. Looks like this is goingto work out for alexa- another triptotheolympics and another olympic medal
 
I've read a couple of translations of very long interviews of Nina Mozer that were fascinating and gave some insight into her influence over her skaters and how she's able to help them. One thing really impressed me: It was a Russian interviewer who asked something like, but why are you giving help to skaters from other countries? She said that her goal was to raise everyone's level of skating together, not just the Russians. Pretty cool.

Yes, thanks. That's good to hear. I've also heard Ashley Cain talk about Mozer's great coaching advice and confidence building she gives her pairs teams.

It is cool that Mozer realizes helping to raise the level of as many pairs around the world as possible is good for the sport as a whole. It helps raise everyone's level and pushes the sport forward.
 
??? Anyways Iam really sensingthatthejudges like and rooting for Knerim and Frazier. In fact they look likeworldmedallists and Canada canforgett staying ahead of the US. They don't h ave a chance. This US pairis favoured in every way and has goten their act together so quickly.

I wonder how Chris really feels. Looks like this is going to work out for alexa- another triptotheolympics and another olympic medal
Oh, I think Chris is happy as a clam. He's a good friend of Brandon's from way back. They all three get along well together. Chris is listed in their program booklet bio as one of their coaches, along with Nina Mozer, Jenni/Todd, and Raf.

It's good that there's huge support behind K/F, because they have an excellent opportunity to continue improving and to be very competitive on the world stage. But I dislike the way U.S. fed overdoes their favoriting in almost a clueless fashion. They need to support all of their teams, and try harder to judge more fairly, rather than politically.

Without K/F's unexpected union, and without the partnering together and surging strength and quality of C/J's skating, U.S. fed would have to rely on supporting C-G/L more, rather than seeming to dump them in favor of pushing up the younger team of Lu/Mitrofanov. Of course, L/M need to gain invaluable competitive experience, but is it wise to push L/M over C-G/L's more mature and expressive skating at this point?

Plus, in their rink, I hope K/F and C/J are treated equally so they can continue being supportive of each other, as well as continuing to push each other as rivals.

I agree with you that both K/F and C/J have higher quality elements than Canada's Kirsten & Michael, and than Walsh/Michaud. But Skate Canada is a fed that is more politically adept, and Canada is seen as having a stronger legacy in pairs skating, even though in actuality, U.S. fed also has a strong pairs legacy, when you really study the actual history.

Tara/Johnny and NBC need to stop suggesting that the U.S. pairs discipline is the only one that has skaters who are inconsistent on the jumps. In fact, K/F are fairly consistent. They just need to jump a bit closer together. They've already corrected their unison on jumps. Lu/Mitrofanov are also consistent.

As well, Chan/Howe are good jumpers who need to increase their consistency. Merv and Olivia are also good jumpers who can hit or miss, but their jumping ability is good. They landed strong jumps in the sp, along with Chan/Howe. Katie McBeath was a very good singles skater, so her jumps are good too. She just needs to work on nerves and continue gaining pairs experience. Katie and Nate did well in their debut, and I feel they should have received better points on PCS. Josh S and Jessica P (who are hoping to switch to Switzerland) also have strong and consistent sbs 3-salchows. When C-G/L first paired, jumping ability was considered their strong point. Tarah/Danny were also consistent jumpers for the most part.
 
Exactly. I don't know why I couldn't exactly remember. LOL

During the NBCSN coverage, Jessica mentioned in an interview that she's been 'working with Raf's assistant' on reworking her jump technique. So that partly answers my earlier question in this thread. But what about Brian? Both Jessica and Brian have problems on their jumps. I personally think it's more of a mental obstacle, with probably some physical adjustments needed too.

Plus Jessica's explanation that she's having problems due to thinking about the changes she has to make going into jumps is not good to hear. Brian & Jessica should both be getting help more with their nerves and with not worrying about each other going into their jumps. If changing technique is not going to be a quick fix, why are they doing that now? Do they think during this pandemic season they will have more time for Jessica to adjust? And once again, Brian needs some help too, so is he also working with 'Raf's assistant'?

Do only Alexa/Brandon rate working directly with Raf? I think Jenni/Todd need to ensure that Jessica/Brian and Alexa/Brandon are treated as equals at their rink. Brandon is 28; Alexa is 29; and both Jessica and Brian are 25. So just a three to four year age difference between the teams. While Alexa/Brandon are a bit more veteran and both have been U.S. National champions with their former partners, Jessica/Brian are a quality team who are also needed to perform well on the international stage. Both teams in tandem are needed to help push the U.S. pairs discipline forward, along with other teams such as C-G/L who are also veterans whom the U.S. would be foolish to continue treating overly harshly in the scoring.

I wonder how long K/F will continue. Hopefully past the next Olympics year, but there's no guarantee since Alexa is 29 and counting. After this Olympics, K/F both may be looking to retire or else give it one more year past the Olympics should they build continued great success.
I have no insider information, but I guess some of it could come down to funds and how to spend them. Skating is expensive, coaches are very expensive. If I remember correctly Alexa and Chris worked with Raf when they moved to California, and she credits him with helping her get her jumping back. Every team and skater has to figure out how to allocate their funds and it's possible that Jessica and Bryan didn't or couldn't add Raf/his team. Jenni and Todd do need to ensure that they are doing the best for each of their teams, but that does not necessarily mean equal. What works for one team, doesn't always work for another team.
I get the impression that Alexa is a go getter. She knows what she wants, she works to get it and she knows how to "play the game" (whether you should have to play the game is another debate entirely). I would think adding Mozer to their team is giving them more international clout.
I have no idea how long Alexa and Brandon plan to keep competing, I think when they first teamed up it was to make it to the Beijing Olympics. However, with not being able to compete much this year and their success, maybe they will hang around a few more years? I think it would be hard to leave the sport when you are on an upward trajectory but who knows?
And yes, I am a huge K/F fan but I prefer C/J's short program and they have superb pair elements like the twist and some lifts. I think C/J's throws are not as good as K/F. The problem is, they can't land their jumps consistently. How long has American pairs had teams that were great EXCEPT the side by side jumps? If I was a judge, I would totally be pushing for K/F. They have gone 3/3 on side by side elements in competition so far. Now, if C/J land their jumps, I think it's much closer and probably a toss up between which team wins. I hope they are able to get the side by sides, it can only benefit US Pairs and I do like C/J as well!
Last, I think Alexa and Brandon have a killer instinct and are willing to do whatever they need to do to make this happen. I was watching the Peacock stream last night and you could hear the skaters in the kiss and cry. After the scores came up, Alexa looked at Brandon and said something like "Did we just break my record?" and he said "I hope so!" It was said jokingly and they both laughed, but I thought it showed their passion for doing well and being the best. To me, this competitiveness is what is currently making them the best team we have and what has been missing from US Pairs for some time!
 
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