2021–22 Canadian Figure Skating | Page 43 | Golden Skate

2021–22 Canadian Figure Skating

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
I think that only injury what keeps them to succeed in Kirsten's psychological make-up.
She has to stop blaming everything and everyone around her and, instead, look deeply inside herself. And to be happy for other competitors success as well as.
And, I guess, no one denies she is a great pair girl and has a star power.
It's funny, until I read your comment just now, it had actually slipped my mind what great star power Kirsten has. She and Michael have just not been themselves this season. Still, they have a history of coming on strong after what was or seemed like a setback. It could happen. I wonder if part of the trouble, as you suggest, is that they've let James/Radford get into their heads a bit. But if it's shoulder or back issues for Michael, I take that as confirmation that KMT doesn't do her part in the lifts. Someone said Dylan had similar troubles when they were partners.

Well, people will be watching M-T/M, and it could be exciting if we see them regain some of their former form, mental strength, and sparkle.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Laurence is a stronger skater than Nikolaj for me. He's a bit stiff especially in the legs and could do with more emoting. They have good ice coverage, but G/F are also amazingly fast (despite both being small people). G/F have better matching lines and synchronicity, as well as some of the cleanest footwork around.

Whether you like their programmes is a subjective opinion. I really liked FB/S's SP but not the LP (I'm fine with voiceovers if limited to a sentence/phrase at the start to help set the mood, not a rambling podcast in a cringey 'exotic' accent). But technique-wise G/F have consistently been better.

Italian politics have more to blame for why they were undermarked so long in favour of Capellini/Lanotte (who were lovely but so slow...)
To each their own, I guess. I find them vastly overrated.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
But if it's shoulder or back issues for Michael, I take that as confirmation that KMT doesn't do her part in the lifts.
That’s illogical. Shoulder and back issues are common in pairs. Bruno Massot had them and he was partnered with Aljona Savchenko.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
To each their own, I guess. I find them vastly overrated.
i never got into the guignard fabbri wagon either though i admire their steadiness and care for detail.

i find that the one team that is truly underrated in Canadian skating is LALA. I feel that FBS will be rewarded after this cycle, if they continue like I think they said they would until Montreal's worlds.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I tell you what, I really wish I could get a ticket to see the Skate Canada Challenge. Talk about an exciting event. Will it be televised or streamed for people in the US?
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Shoulder and back issues are common in pairs. Bruno Massot had them and he was partnered with Aljona Savchenko.
You're right. I should amend that, but I still think she doesn't necessarily do her part in the lifts. I felt the same about Tarah Kayne. I don't know figure skating, but my partner lifted me in dance, and I helped out in practices when my daughter was being lifted in cheerleading. It was always clear which kids could hold themselves better and launch into the lifts, in order to help the lifting partner. I'll bow out of this line of talk.
 

Koatterce

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Country
Canada
I tell you what, I really wish I could get a ticket to see the Skate Canada Challenge. Talk about an exciting event. Will it be televised or streamed for people in the US?
There will be Dailymotion streams accessible on the event page on Skate Canada's website and directly on their Dailymotion page. I don't think the streams are typically geoblocked, and the streaming situation seems to be business as usual, so I presume they'll be accessible in the US
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
There will be Dailymotion streams accessible on the event page on Skate Canada's website and directly on their Dailymotion page. I don't think the streams are typically geoblocked, and the streaming situation seems to be business as usual, so I presume they'll be accessible in the US
:thank: :thank: :thank:
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
i find that the one team that is truly underrated in Canadian skating is LALA. I feel that FBS will be rewarded after this cycle, if they continue like I think they said they would until Montreal's worlds.

I agree - have to wonder if they were skating for some other countries if they would be scoring as well as Green/Parsons and Davis/Smolkin with their less international experience.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I know, but I don't think that fully explains just how far they have regressed.
Isn't this Moore-Towers/Marinaro's final season also? They may simply be tired mentally with all the years of competing and have checked out. It happens to everyone where they hit a wall and they have nothing more to give. Kristen isn't even 30 yet but has been doing this at a high level for over a decade now.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
i never got into the guignard fabbri wagon either though i admire their steadiness and care for detail.

i find that the one team that is truly underrated in Canadian skating is LALA. I feel that FBS will be rewarded after this cycle, if they continue like I think they said they would until Montreal's worlds.
Lajoie/Lagha are getting scores this season that puzzle me exceedingly. They are a great and upcoming team and they're not being scored like it. I do think FB/S have the physical build that the judges seem to favour right now (and they are good of course) so I do think they have a good chance to move up.

The other team I find chronically underscored are Hawayek and Baker.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
La/La were 14th at worlds last year but if you look at the scores and results from this season so far they could actually end up dropping a couple places where they should actually be moving up. And it also looks like FBS will be hard pressed to keep their 8th place.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Isn't this Moore-Towers/Marinaro's final season also? They may simply be tired mentally with all the years of competing and have checked out. It happens to everyone where they hit a wall and they have nothing more to give. Kristen isn't even 30 yet but has been doing this at a high level for over a decade now.
Just from observing Kirsten as she takes the ice, this thought has occurred to me too. I guess for some, it can work well to announce their plans to retire. But for others, I think it would add a hurdle. She may well regain her motivation and sparkle, as it gets closer to nationals.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I feel sorry for Roman, but anyway, he did a quite good job, better than the ones at 2021 Skate Canada for sure. :) If only the judging panel made things right...
Roman had a good showing. I don't see anything to feel sorry for him about. Had he been perfectly clean, he would have scored more points. But yes, the judging has been very messy at many events this season -- that's not unusual though.

In general, for Canadian skaters, not being able to compete at any events in 2020-2021 season, except Canada's virtual event, was difficult. Especially hard for Canadian skaters was the cancellation of their nationals. That was surely devastating for morale and for competitive momentum. It looks like Roman is working things out at the moment. I have a lot of confidence in him. He's a beautiful, well-rounded skater.

Imho it was clear in the very beginning this pairing is not going to work

On the other hand, the way how she split with Dylan... it was an utmost arrogance from her side.
Anyway we all make mistakes. I think that Kirsten has a potential to be a next great coach, the next Tamara Moskvina; provided of course she learns a humble lesson from her mistakes.
I might be wrong of course about everything I say here. My opinion is based only on my observation ; on what I have seen on the screen, heard in interviews or read.
I don't think it's fair to Kirsten/Michael to totally rehash in a negative way what happened immediately after they paired. Kirsten probably didn't realize how much work it would take to essentially start over with a new partner. She probably thought it would be a lot smoother. Sounds familiar, as James/Radford also likely thought with their equal experience and elegant qualities together that they would fare better than they have so far competitively. It takes time to get used to a new partner. J/R are appearing more confident and on track. Lifts were never a Duhamel/Radford strong suit. Vanessa had excellent lifts with Cipres, so hopefully the lift miscue J/R experienced is just a fluke they will be able to correct going forward,

To Kirsten/Michael's credit, they made some right moves in switching to the Marcotte/Gauthier training camp when they did. The move salvaged their partnership. Julie Marcotte really helped them over the years to find material which created a palpable connection between them. They've always been entertaining to watch and competitive too. They also benefited from setbacks and splits other Canadian teams suffered. Again, the lack of competition (except for the virtual domestic event) during the pandemic season, was not helpful for Canadian skaters, aside from the ice dancers, who don't seem to be as impacted. Mostly, I think Kirsten/Michael's thoughts about J/R pairing and being perhaps favored by SC, has seemed to affect K&M mentally, especially Kirsten. And that's understandable. Eric had choreographed their new sp, so they decided to scrap it and work with Mark Pillay for a substitute sp.

Also, Julie Marcotte coaching J/R had to be another adjustment psychologically for K&M, because they seemingly had a close working relationship with Julie. In addition, Bruno is Julie's brother, and his wife Meagan, is Eric's former partner. As we know, Meagan didn't take the split well. All of this emotional drama seems to have had an impact on Kirsten/Michael. Not the least being, they may have felt as if they were no longer Canada's top pair, which they realize can impact the politics of competition results. K&M are also close to Trennt/Evelyn, who would most likely be the odd pair out for making the Olympic team. The best approach to all of this seemingly would have been for K&M to push it aside, and try to feel inspired and motivated to raise their competitive level. That goes for both K&M and Evelyn/Trennt.

I heard on TSL that Allison Purkiss has supposedly been tweaking K&M's 3-twist. If true, that hasn't been working out. K&M's twist was never spectacular, but it was also never as bad as it has been looking this season. Still, it's not fair to completely dump on K&M, and bring up what they looked like in the beginning of their partnership. They stuck together, made a commitment to each other, and made their partnership work. They should be respected for what they've accomplished. Plus, there's still time for them to turn things around this season, if they can improve their mindsets.

Yes, Kirsten/Dylan were 4th at Worlds in 2014, which was an amazing position to be in. Had they stayed together, they would have continued to rival Duhamel/Radford, who were 3rd at 2014 Worlds. Who knows what would have happened? Kirsten feared that Dylan might retire before or after the 2018 Olympics. She wished to get a head start with a younger partner because she wanted to compete at two more Olympics. That was her stated reasoning, and her choice. Perhaps, Dylan & Kirsten could have competed at 2018 Olympics and done well. There's no way to know, especially once things were left wide open for Duhamel/Radford to eventually win 7 Canadian National championships, two World titles, and an Olympic bronze medal (in addition to silver and gold Olympic team medals). If Dylan/Kirsten had competed at 2018 Olympics, then Dylan could have retired and Kirsten would have still had time to work with a new partner -- maybe even Trennt, in terms of timing. At this point, the timing for that happening is off.

I've often said how I think Kirsten/Trennt and Evelyn/Michael might make better matches. The idea for Kirsten pairing with Trennt, post 2022, was suggested by a Canadian fan, so the K&T pairing idea is not original with me. Of course, it's not easy to re-partner and have everything go smoothly very quickly (unless it comes together in rare fashion like it did for Knierim/Frazier and Calalang/Johnson -- in their favor respectively is that K/F were good friends and matched extremely well, while C/J trained together for years with different partners -- when they paired, they clicked immediately, like a match made in heaven).

Is eventually coaching something that Kirsten has expressed an interest in doing? Does she currently coach younger skaters at her rink in her spare time?
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
La/La were 14th at worlds last year but if you look at the scores and results from this season so far they could actually end up dropping a couple places where they should actually be moving up. And it also looks like FBS will be hard pressed to keep their 8th place.
Yes, this is my fear as well. And it's not because of the quality of the skating that the two teams are putting out there. I've had the feeling all season that it seems like the judges have completely dropped both of these Canadian teams. I don't know why. Both teams deserve a lot better.

As for M-T/M, I've never liked this narrative that Kirsten did something unforgivable by wanting to try a new partnership, when she felt the old one wasn't going to get her where she wanted to go. In no other business would someone be expected to just wave goodbye to their goals like that. Dylan went on to a great partnership with Lubov, while Kirsten and Michael have had more of a struggle. Clearly, as we can see, Dylan did not want to continue his skating career to the 2021 Olympics anyway, while Kirsten wanted a longer career. Did she make the wrong choice? It's debatable, though I'd say it obviously hasn't been the success she'd hoped. Anyway, it really has no bearing on what's going on right now. Part of their struggle may still be with nagging injury, but I don't think you can deny that a large part of it is clearly psychological.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Regarding our dance teams, they probably will retain their position with the reshuffling of retiring teams... and going as Canada's 1 and 2 will earn them better marks than going as Canada's 2 and 3... BUT still... i find that they are suffering a lot from the recent pushes we have seen
1) Davis/Smolkin (this one puzzles me deeply)
2) Green/Parsons (they are the future or American dance but it saddens me that this push probably will be costing H/B)
3) the Spanish wars... has made both teams get higher and higher scores... and this creates a disadvantage for FBS
4) to a lesser extent, Kana and Dai are getting also a lot of attention... which is impacting potentially other tier 2 teams like FBS and Lala.

Not really good right now to be FBS and Lala... (and any tier 2 American team except GR/PA)
We can even see how L/B (french) are gaining momentum quickly as PapCiz are probably heading out after the games...
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Yes, this is my fear as well. And it's not because of the quality of the skating that the two teams are putting out there. I've had the feeling all season that it seems like the judges have completely dropped both of these Canadian teams. I don't know why. Both teams deserve a lot better.

As for M-T/M, I've never liked this narrative that Kirsten did something unforgivable by wanting to try a new partnership, when she felt the old one wasn't going to get her where she wanted to go. In no other business would someone be expected to just wave goodbye to their goals like that. Dylan went on to a great partnership with Lubov, while Kirsten and Michael have had more of a struggle. Clearly, as we can see, Dylan did not want to continue his skating career to the 2021 Olympics anyway, while Kirsten wanted a longer career. Did she make the wrong choice? It's debatable, though I'd say it obviously hasn't been the success she'd hoped. Anyway, it really has no bearing on what's going on right now. Part of their struggle may still be with nagging injury, but I don't think you can deny that a large part of it is clearly psychological.
Dylan and Kirsten were forth in the world at one point. Technically Marinaro and her had issues with lifts and twists. They have not increased dfficulty in the jumps pairs or singles. I would have loved to see what she and Dylan could have done but then they may have always been in ERic and Megan's shadows. Though i guess she and Michael are. I really hope they pull it together for their own sake. i hope they can write their fairytale ending. Its not too late ' yet. But I guess his back is one issue. I know it has been said they need to focus on themselves. not Eric and Vanessa or anything else.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
I agree, I’m so excited for this young lady she is improving with each event. Hope she continues on this path in all the upcoming events
Watched The Skating Lesson on YouTube and David was quite taken with Maddie. He suggested that she could even beat the USA ladies in the Olympic Team event depending on who they choose to skate for the USA. I really think her GOE should have been higher on most of her jumps especially here 3Loop.
Also for those who know better - how can she get lower levels on all her spins in the free when to me that looked to be the same as she did in the short?
 
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