2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 18 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
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Australia
Nathan has been carrying USFS since 2016 season when he scored the highest score for a US man ever, winning against the big guys then, and we finally got back 3 spots at Worlds.
Nathan didn't skate at 2016 Worlds. In fact, neither did Jason - all three men who were at 2016 Worlds have since retired (Adam, Max, and Grant), and all three had excellent skates. In fact, all three finished inside the top 10, and it was only some bodgy maths (unfortunately, Adam's 6 + Max's 8 added up to 14 instead of the 13 they needed) cost the US men the third spot. There was also some dubious judging involved (some very generous scoring for Uno and Chan's error-riddled splatfests).

In 2017, Nathan finished sixth, and Jason seventh, which was what earned three spots for the Olympics. Hardly "carrying on his back".

Even in 2018, Nathan's performance would have been meaningless had Max not had one of the best performances ever by a third alternate.

If you will recall, Nathan finished third at US Nationals, behind Adam and Max who were in the wrong order, and then injured himself at the exhibition.
 

century2009

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Nathan didn't skate at 2016 Worlds. In fact, neither did Jason - all three men who were at 2016 Worlds have since retired (Adam, Max, and Grant), and all three had excellent skates. In fact, all three finished inside the top 10, and it was only some bodgy maths (unfortunately, Adam's 6 + Max's 8 added up to 14 instead of the 13 they needed) cost the US men the third spot. There was also some dubious judging involved (some very generous scoring for Uno and Chan's error-riddled splatfests).

In 2017, Nathan finished sixth, and Jason seventh, which was what earned three spots for the Olympics. Hardly "carrying on his back".

Even in 2018, Nathan's performance would have been meaningless had Max not had one of the best performances ever by a third alternate.

If you will recall, Nathan finished third at US Nationals, behind Adam and Max who were in the wrong order, and then injured himself at the exhibition.
It is the 2016 - 2017 season is what I meant. Not 2015 - 2016 where he wasn't senior yet.

You are proving my point. Without Nathan around, you would NOT have gotten the spot back in 2017 World given they lose it without Nathan in 2016 Worlds.

Since Nathan has been Senior, the USFS has had 3 spots for men.

Of course spots are determined by adding 2 of the highest podium finish of the same country, but given the inconsistency of the US men, Nathan is carrying USFS.

Nathan has finished consistency 1st place by 2018 while the other US men have shown inconsistency throughout the years.

If you add up the podium finish of the other 2 US men, the USFS would have lost those spots already.

With Nathan being consistent and staying 1st place, the other US men dont have to worry as much because he is there.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Nathan has been carrying USFS since 2016 season when he scored the highest score for a US man ever, winning against the big guys then, and we finally got back 3 spots at Worlds.
In his two international wins this year, both times Vincent has scored higher than any US man ever, except for Nathan. Sounds like a natural #2 to me, so does that mean he should be on the team right now?

Because I don't think that makes him a lock. I think that means he's skating extremely well in the early season, and if he continues this path, he has a very very good chance. Nothing more. A lot can happen in the roughly three months leading to Nationals. He could lose his edge. Other skaters could round into even better form.

As for Nathan, I don't think we've even seen him skate competitively at all this season, right - or did I miss something (not impossible)? Now let me be clear: I absolutely expect that Nathan will continue his dominance, and that no US man will beat him this season. I don't think any man from anywhere will beat him. I expect him to occupy the top step on the podium every time he skates this season. But there's a non-zero chance I'm wrong, and we haven't really seen his programs on the field of play.

I've read separate justifications that say "Nathan should be on the team" and "Jason should be on the team" and "Vincent should be on the team." Well, that's three - Olympic selection done and dusted before the GP starts, and it would be a very good team. But, aside from the "big three" there are a bunch of talented US men (the depth is insane in terms of ability and potential), and any one of them is capable of suddenly having all the pieces fall into place. Health, confidence, technique, training... whatever. These men deserve a chance.

All I'm asking is that we be patient, let the season play out, and let all the skaters show us - no annointments.
 
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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Excuse me, Nathan has not been carrying anyone on his back, let alone the US men, and did not get back three spots all by his lonesome. :scratch2:

The US men *lost* the third spot in 2016. (ETA: which was ridiculous in and of itself, but another story. Nathan did not compete) In 2017, Nathan finished sixth and Jason finished seventh, earning back those three spots at Worlds. Without Jason's finish, no third spot. Let's not rewrite history. :)

That said, Nathan obviously has an excellent track record since then. Even though I am a "Top Three or Bust" gal, I cannot envision a scenario where one leaves Nathan off the Olympic team, unless he is heaven forbid too injured to compete. And there won't need to be a committee, because the Nats judges would give him whatever score he needed. I can't say I blame them
I love all our US men, don’t get me wrong. I do not have a memory like a steel trap like most of the posters to this board have, but I know Nathan is a 3x world champion, 3x Grand Prix finalist champion and 5x national champion. How many other skaters do we have who have done that ever? How many skaters does any country have who have done that ever?

Going back to Dick Button, he was a 2x Olympic Champion, 5x World Champion, and European champion. But I’m not sure one can compare across many decades like that. They didn’t have the GP back then or I’m sure he would have won that as well.

I realize I may have denigrated the US men and that was not my intention. I love many skaters inside and outside the US, who have different goals. Whether that is to make US Nationals, make tech minimums for Worlds, make the Worlds FS, skate in the Olympics or whatever the case may be. I chose my words poorly and I apologize.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
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Joined
Mar 3, 2014
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United-States
I love all our US men, don’t get me wrong. I do not have a memory like a steel trap like most of the posters to this board have, but I know Nathan is a 3x world champion, 3x Grand Prix finalist champion and 5x national champion. How many other skaters do we have who have done that ever? How many skaters does any country have who have done that ever?

Going back to Dick Button, he was a 2x Olympic Champion, 5x World Champion, and European champion. But I’m not sure one can compare across many decades like that. They didn’t have the GP back then or I’m sure he would have won that as well.

I realize I may have denigrated the US men and that was not my intention. I love many skaters inside and outside the US, who have different goals. Whether that is to make US Nationals, make tech minimums for Worlds, make the Worlds FS, skate in the Olympics or whatever the case may be. I chose my words poorly and I apologize.

I know you didn't mean it that way, and I am sorry if I came across too strongly.

I do agree that in no universe where Nathan Chen skates like Nathan Chen has the past three years will be left off the Olympic team, even if all he does is skate around the rink to "Farmer in the Dell" at Nats. Nor should he. So I guess I'm not as pure with the "top three" as I thought he was.;)

And I only wish my mind were like a steel trap:laugh: . I remember an adorable photo (which I couldn't find) of Jason and Nathan holding up the numbers six and seven with their fingers, to signify 13 points for three spots for Worlds and the Olys. That was my frame of reference. :)
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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I know you didn't mean it that way, and I am sorry if I came across too strongly.

I do agree that in no universe where Nathan Chen skates like Nathan Chen has the past three years will be left off the Olympic team, even if all he does is skate around the rink to "Farmer in the Dell" at Nats. Nor should he. So I guess I'm not as pure with the "top three" as I thought he was.;)

And I only wish my mind were like a steel trap:laugh: . I remember an adorable photo (which I couldn't find) of Jason and Nathan holding up the numbers six and seven with their fingers, to signify 13 points for three spots for Worlds and the Olys. That was my frame of reference. :)
I know you didn't mean it that way, and I am sorry if I came across too strongly.

I do agree that in no universe where Nathan Chen skates like Nathan Chen has the past three years will be left off the Olympic team, even if all he does is skate around the rink to "Farmer in the Dell" at Nats. Nor should he. So I guess I'm not as pure with the "top three" as I thought he was.;)

And I only wish my mind were like a steel trap:laugh: . I remember an adorable photo (which I couldn't find) of Jason and Nathan holding up the numbers six and seven with their fingers, to signify 13 points for three spots for Worlds and the Olys. That was my frame of reference. :)

In my opinion Nathan Chen is a generational talent. Jason may be as well.
 

Apple1078

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 6, 2020
In my opinion Nathan Chen is a generational talent. Jason may be as well.
I agree. Talents like these two don't come around very often and we'll have to wait till next season to see what kind of gap they leave behind. I think Ilia has massive potential but he's still young and it will be interesting to see how he matures the coming year. He's still just 16.
 
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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
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Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I am rewatching US Nationals (thanks to Ice Coverage explaining how to find it on NBC Peacock) and realized I haven’t heard anything about Tomoki. Is he still skating?
 

Apple1078

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 6, 2020
I am rewatching US Nationals (thanks to Ice Coverage explaining how to find it on NBC Peacock) and realized I haven’t heard anything about Tomoki. Is he still skating?
I think he was at Lombardia but I can't remember how he did.
ETA: He was 5th.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
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United-States
That is great for Jimmy, but what happened to Yaro? I was really looking forward to seeing him.
That’s why I was like yay but also boo. I really hope Yaro is not injured but I don’t think we know why.
 

Arch-

Spectator
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
I know Nathan is a 3x world champion, 3x Grand Prix finalist champion and 5x national champion. How many other skaters do we have who have done that ever? How many skaters does any country have who have done that ever?
How many skaters does any country have who have done that ever?

I love Nathan but ummm...The answer is the same in all 4 disciplines: lots. Lots of countries had/have a Nathan Chen. He's also not an Olympic Champion so some of these skaters are, comparatively speaking, greater.

How quickly we forget about OAR's Medvedeva prior to 2018 being unbeatable "might as well give her the gold". And Canada's Patrick Chan being a foregone conclusion, fight for 2nd, unbeatable in 2016. Or USA's Michelle Kwan for 3 Olympics.

So just off the top of my head and not meant as a complete list but here are other Nathan Chens:

Canada with Chan, Orser & Virtue/Moir

USA has Eldridge, Hamilton, Dick, Michelle Kwan, Meno/Sand, Davis/White, Shibs.

Russia's Pairs in literally every quad except 2018 (although I think team Candyman were 2017 World Champions), Plush, Nemov, Yagutin, the guy in Center Stage, Medvedeva, Slutskaya

Japan has Yuzu, Uno, Takahashi, Arakawa

Norway had Henie

Germany has Witt

France has Papadakis/Cizeron, Bonaly, James/Ciprès & that dance team from Salt Lake City quad.

Spain has Javi

China has Han, Boyang, Chin Lu, Sui/Han, Zhao Hongbo w/various partners.

GB has Torvill/Dean

Basically the rest of Europe/Eurasia/Australia all had/have 5x+ national champions because there is little competition or interest.
 
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