2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[elliana]

So many ppl dismissed Mariah in part citing her 2021 Nationals "meltdown" yet I find Karen's performance at Skate Canada a more recent and concerning sampling of her skating.

 

[ManyCairns]

For everyone citing Karen Chen’s 4th place finish at worlds as the reason she should make the team, remember that Ashley Wagner’s world bronze medal didn’t help her at all. The US fed gave the spot to Karen Chen instead.

There’s so much dismissive talk here about Bradie’s 9th place finish at Worlds, citing that as a reason she shouldn’t make the team, despite the fact that she placed 9th while skating in broken boots. I’d like to see her naysayers pull this off. Granted, her injuries might make this a moot point, but still. Count me as someone hoping to see her back at 100% for Nationals and a member of the Olympic team.

Ashley has a world SILVER, although it was 2 seasons prior to getting left off the Olympic team.

 

[SorrySkater]

Ashley has a world SILVER, although it was 2 seasons prior to getting left off the Olympic team.

Oops - thanks for the correction!

 

[yelyoh]

For everyone citing Karen Chen’s 4th place finish at worlds as the reason she should make the team, remember that Ashley Wagner’s world bronze medal didn’t help her at all. The US fed gave the spot to Karen Chen instead.

There’s so much dismissive talk here about Bradie’s 9th place finish at Worlds, citing that as a reason she shouldn’t make the team, despite the fact that she placed 9th while skating in broken boots. I’d like to see her naysayers pull this off. Granted, her injuries might make this a moot point, but still. Count me as someone hoping to see her back at 100% for Nationals and a member of the Olympic team.

Ashley got a Silver at Worlds. She got a bronze from the team event at the Olympics.

Ashley has a world SILVER, although it was 2 seasons prior to getting left off the Olympic team.

Thank you!!!

 

[SorrySkater]

The US fed went with the top 3 finishers at Nationals last Olympics. Given that Ashley finished fourth at Nationals prior to Sochi and was saved by the committee and finished fourth at Nationals prior to Pyeongchang the committee probably felt they shouldn't save her again.

The judging was, IMO, a bit suspect. I think the final placement was preordained so as to leave Ashley off the team in favor of Karen. Given that precedence, I think the judging ar Nationals will tell us exactly who USFS wants to have on the team.

 

[saturdaysun]

Mariah was overscored in Russia, obviously because they were preparing to break records for Kamila and it would have been sus if everyone else's scores weren't also inflated. That performance was not within 2 points of her personal best, let's be real. And some of her direct competitors, like Leona, imploded, making her 4th place finish seem that much more impressive. I think the team should be Alysa, Lindsay and Karen.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

And some of her direct competitors, like Leona, imploded, making her 4th place finish seem that much more impressive.

You could say the same about Karen at Worlds. I don't think Mariah is a lock for the team by any means, but this result alone should put her there if she earns a top 3 finish at Nationals.

 

[TontoK]

You could say the same about Karen at Worlds. I don't think Mariah is a lock for the team by any means, but this result alone should put her there if she earns a top 3 finish at Nationals.

You may be right. One reasonably respectable international result could be enough. That's a sad commentary on the current state of affairs among US women.

 

[moonvine]

Pretty much true. Because there isn't some international star who might have a bad night at Nationals. Alysa is the strongest, but the rest are all pretty equal, and none stands to make much of an impact at the Olympics. So just pull a 'gymnastics Tom' and select 1-2-3. The only issue is sometimes at Nationals the judging is a bit biased/reputation judging, and certain skaters are boosted a bit.

It wasn’t fair to the gymnasts and wouldn’t be fair to the figure skaters either. They had stated the team wouldn’t be picked by Nationals placements, then after the team was announced it was “ha ha only kidding.” They thought since they had Simone it didn’t matter who else they picked. I think it cost the US the gold.

It’s not a huge reach for USFS to have more class than USAG.

 

[moonvine]

Does anyone think Gracie still has a shot at that third place? I would love to see that.

I don’t really but I can say I would love it.

 

[yelyoh]

And since her FS is good and she is comfortable with it (and should be after several years) she has a good shot at top five which would equal the best of how US women have done this GP series. Is it too much to ask for a medal? Well yes but who would have thought third place in the SP? So...

Update to reflect her 4th place. Yes!!!!!!!!

 

[Weathergal]

Yes, I think they will send Chen if the line up is not Alysa, Bradie, and Mariah. They are always loyal to the skaters who have been around the longest. Think about Camden and Tomoki. They continue to give them every chance to get it together.

Welcome to Golden Skate! Post long and post often!

 

[jenaj]

Mariah was overscored in Russia, obviously because they were preparing to break records for Kamila and it would have been sus if everyone else's scores weren't also inflated. That performance was not within 2 points of her personal best, let's be real. And some of her direct competitors, like Leona, imploded, making her 4th place finish seem that much more impressive. I think the team should be Alysa, Lindsay and Karen.

What has Lindsay done to be on the team, so far?

 

[mrrice]

I disagree with those placing Lindsay over Karen Chen for an Olympic Spot. First of all, Karen came in 4th place at Worlds. She is the reason there are three spots to begin with. She also beat Mariah at last year Nationals and even as recent as last week at GP France. Last week. Not a few months ago. But, last week. Remember, she came in 5th and Mariah was 6th. Karen is super solid with her spot for the Olympics. So, don’t even look Karen’s way to be replaced to the Olympics .

The reason why I’m posting in Karen’s defence is because she has a lot of factors to her advantage.

1) High World Ranking

This is very important. Her high ranking is a result of handling her nerves in the big stages. She couldn’t have done better at Worlds considering her technical abilities. But, this high ranking is crucial as it puts her in the final flight of skaters at the Olympics. Being one of the last skaters, will give her a higher PCS potential and this is important. The best example of how a low ranking can negatively affect a skaters score is best depicted by no other athlete other than Lindsay. At Warsaw, Lindsay started near the beginning, due to low ranking and being relatively unknown and was subject to UR calls and a low PCS score. She ended the competition with 180+ score and much lower than I anticipated. She lost to Schott. I think this ended her hopes to be selected to the team, as the federation will be scared to send someone who hasn’t scored high in a Senior National event and hasn’t caused a splash yet.

2) The Levito factor

Why does someone like Levito matter in this conversation? Here is why….If Bradie is out of the picture, with the way people are skating, I do believe Lindsay has a chance to beat Karen, at Nationals. But, it will be hard as Karen should have a huge PCS advantage over Lindsay. But, say for example, this does happen, for example, I see Alysa, Isabeau and Mariah on the podium. Levito has beaten Lindsay at every local event on avg by about 20 points. Liu is the chosen one and Mariah is their darling. Say, Lindsay has the skate of her life and finishes in 4th place with Chen down in 5th, just ahead of Amber Glenn. Thanks to Levito taking a podium spot, Liu and Bell make it to the Olympics and then Chen gets chosen rightfully so, due to her impressive resume and 1) over Lindsay. So, this is why I think it will be difficult for Chen to be knocked off the team. Because this is one of the worse case scenarios and I still see them choosing Chen. Now, if Bell has a bit of a meltdown, and Lindsay finishes third. Then, things could get more interesting. In this case, I see them choosing Chen over Bell ; so, still Karen will make it . But, in this worse case scenario, realistically, I still see Bell and Chen chosen over Lindsay. So, unless Lindsay wins, that is only scenario, I see Lindsay chosen. But, that is why the Levito factor is huge, as the chances of that happening are slim to none. So, Levito participating at US Nationals, is a huge obstacle in Lindsay’s way.

3) Bradie’s injury

If Bradie is injured…which I don’t want to talk about as she is my favourite ; the USA needs someone like Karen Chen even more. Bradie and Karen earned three spots for USA and if Bradie isn’t able to compete, well, I think this favours Karen Chen, even more as surely one of the two that earned the points to put USA in this position, deserves to be on the team. They need someone like Chen to mentor the other two in terms of mental toughness, etc. So, this works to Chen’s favour.

4) The Last Hurrah

After all Karen has done for USA ladies figure skating, I think the USA will love to give Karen her moment before the new generation replaces her. The new generation isn’t here yet. Levito is too young and Lindsay lacks emotional maturity and artistic impression at this stage of her career. This favours skaters like Karen as I see the committee favouring her at this moment due to this being her last opportunity, before the new generation takes over. Which won’t happen, till next year.

So, this is why I think Karen has a 80-90% chance of making it to the Olympics. As long as she doesn’t have a complete meltdown at Nationals, the last event prior to selection, I see her being selected.

With that being said, I can’t wait for a new generation to replace ladies like Chen and Bell, who appear to be actually heading in the opposite direction in terms of technical layout difficulty. The hunger isn’t there for Bell and Chen. Athletes like Lindsay and Isabeau are hungrier and it will be interesting to see how they push US Ladies figure skating forward. Personally, I’m rooting for the new girls for the next Olympic cycle as I’m a bit bored with Bell and Chen. Karen is probably my least favourite out of the contending ladies, as I root for ladies like Tennell who practice super hard and try Loop combos and even the 3A. Bradie was supposed to have a 3A this year…. She was so hungry to learn this element as she knew it would be the only way she could sneak a top five finish with an outside chance of a podium spot. I will continue hoping and praying for a Bradie comeback at Nationals

I agree that Karen has done a lot for the US and she is largely responsible for us having our 3rd Spot. On Principle, she should get a spot on the team. However, her GP outings have not been good enough to justify sending her ahead of anyone else should she finish in 4th

 

[AlysaLiuStan]

With those I would argue that she can be No. 1 in the USA now.

In your dreams.

 

[moonvine]

What has Lindsay done to be on the team, so far?

Skated well as a Junior. Everyone wants the newest hottest thing to be on the team.

 

[Amei]

So many ppl dismissed Mariah in part citing her 2021 Nationals "meltdown" yet I find Karen's performance at Skate Canada a more recent and concerning sampling of her skating.

I'm not necessarily dismissing Mariah in part because of the 2021 Nationals but its still a problematic outing for her - it was all pretty much lined up for her to get the National title, be clean is all she pretty much needed to do. I've said for awhile, Karen, Mariah and Amber are about the same skate-wise, all have a consistency problem, Karen's advantage is that her really good moments have been at moments when US needs it ala Worlds 2021. Mariah needs to avoid messy skates though at her next event (can't remember the name) and Nationals because right now her advantage is that she hasn't had a bad skate outside of the summer warmup at Cranberry this season.

What has Lindsay done to be on the team, so far?

She's placed first and third on her 2 JGP events, and fifth at a Challenger event where she was (IMO) strictly judged where others weren't. If you compare what Lindsay does vs. Mariah/Karen/Amber she does TES elements more competitive internationally - multiple triple-triples, including back-loaded. Maybe its the 'shiny new toy' syndrome but Mariah/Karen/Amber have all been on the senior international scene and they have largely not improved their TES over the years, Karen's doing almost the same layouts she did the last Olympic season; Lindsay has improved her TES between last year and this year. I'm a big advocate of the US ladies Olympic team being the top 3 age-eligible finishers at Nationals given that none of the ladies are likely to medal (and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if none of them are top 5), but if they don't go top 3 age-eligible finishers, in my book I give Lindsay points for her TES improvements at attempting to be competitive to the international circuit. Maybe rewarding skaters doing more difficult content would be better in the long run for the future of US skating than rewarding skaters who have just hung around for years.

 

[moonvine]

I'm not necessarily dismissing Mariah in part because of the 2021 Nationals but its still a problematic outing for her - it was all pretty much lined up for her to get the National title, be clean is all she pretty much needed to do. I've said for awhile, Karen, Mariah and Amber are about the same skate-wise, all have a consistency problem, Karen's advantage is that her really good moments have been at moments when US needs it ala Worlds 2021. Mariah needs to avoid messy skates though at her next event (can't remember the name) and Nationals because right now her advantage is that she hasn't had a bad skate outside of the summer warmup at Cranberry this season.

Since none are likely to make the top warm up group in any case it’s even more important to reward the skaters who have been representing the US for years. Like Karen without whom we would have 2 spots.



She's placed first and third on her 2 JGP events, and fifth at a Challenger event where she was (IMO) strictly judged where others weren't. If you compare what Lindsay does vs. Mariah/Karen/Amber she does TES elements more competitive internationally - multiple triple-triples, including back-loaded. Maybe its the 'shiny new toy' syndrome but Mariah/Karen/Amber have all been on the senior international scene and they have largely not improved their TES over the years, Karen's doing almost the same layouts she did the last Olympic season; Lindsay has improved her TES between last year and this year. I'm a big advocate of the US ladies Olympic team being the top 3 age-eligible finishers at Nationals given that none of the ladies are likely to medal (and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if none of them are top 5), but if they don't go top 3 age-eligible finishers, in my book I give Lindsay points for her TES improvements at attempting to be competitive to the international circuit. Maybe rewarding skaters doing more difficult content would be better in the long run for the future of US skating than rewarding skaters who have just hung around for years.

I’m very against the US ladies Olympic Team being the top 3 age eligible skaters because the USFS has stated it’s criteria and that’s not it. Changing the selection process at this late date would be grossly unfair to the athletes.

 

[saturdaysun]

What has Lindsay done to be on the team, so far?

Execute difficult layouts, try risky elements rather than playing it safe and push herself to do better and score higher. Ya know, the point of competition. At this point my ideal team is one legacy skater (Karen), one representing the US' present (Alysa) and one for the future (Lindsay). I see no point in sending two of Mariah and Karen; they're viewed as the same, but I personally only think of Karen as a true "PCS skater." Her Butterfly Lovers has Olympic Moment potential.

 

[readernick]

I'm not necessarily dismissing Mariah in part because of the 2021 Nationals but its still a problematic outing for her - it was all pretty much lined up for her to get the National title, be clean is all she pretty much needed to do. I've said for awhile, Karen, Mariah and Amber are about the same skat

I think Mariah is more consistent than Karen or Amber. She has scored over 200 points internationally 6 times. Karen has scored over 200 3 times. Amber only once. She usually doesn't completely melt down in competition unlike Amber and she doesn't UR her single jumps unlike Karen. She was overscored at Rostelecom ( as all the top skaters were) but Karen was very clearly overscored at both 2021 Worlds and Finlandia so I don't see how that can be used as an argument against Mariah.

Basically though, the only two skaters who have been very consistent this year are Alysa who is consistent (but also has an UR problem) and Lindsay who has cleanly landed 3-3s in competition including a 3Lz3lo. ( But who the judges don't want to reward- the way she was scored compared to others at Warsaw Cup was almost unbelievable and amusing because it was so blatantly biased)

I, honestly, don't think any US woman has done enough to be put on the Olympic team if they finish lower than 5th at Nationals. It isn't like men or ice dance where multiple skaters pretty much ensured their spots by making the GPF. It isn't even like US pairs where two teams got medals on the GP.

Based on the way the selection criteria was written, the US can still send any of women who have been in discussion for the spots as long as they are top 3 or top 5 ( Alysa). However, the US was willing to manipulate scores at the last nationals before the Olympics to send Karen over Ashley/Mariah. I'm sure they will make sure the skaters they want on the team are on the team. I'm still hoping Bradie recovers before Nationals. If that doesn't happen, I would send Alysa, Lindsay and Mariah ( provided she does well at Golden Spin/ is top 3) because they have been the most consistent throughout their competitions this year.