2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[el henry]

Don't they usually go with placings at events?

Yes, they do, but there have been rumors that scores would be used as no Russian athletes were at the first two events. AFAIK, the rumors come from Russia.

I understand the reasoning, but scoring across comps is so wildly inconsistent that I do not think that is fair either.

 

[skylark]

I'd like to know who filled her head with the idea that if Nancy were out, that she would be the Olympic Champion.

It's just my opinion, but I think Tonya thought that one up all by herself! In the interviews I heard her do, she often overestimated herself. But I'll say no more about her. Back to the current US Women!

Belatedly, I watched Clare Seo today and loved her personality as well as her movement and skating.

 

[readernick]

Yeah, hence the ? because I haven't heard from the ISU that they're not holding it and they did say something about "alternative qualification measures". I agree on the JGPF, though.

I understood. I was just providing additional details. I didn't reply to correct you. Sorry if my message appeared that way...

 

[catjohnsn2]

i don't think she will have an issue with burn out. it's important to get yourself out there and prove consistency as a first year senior, but even more so since the juniors didn't have a season at all last year and we didn't really see Alysa at all. this is a smart move from her team- get her name out there and show she's a contender.

I now have a reason to watch the JGP! This young lady is lovely, fast, and her step sequence was a
WOW!

 

[[email protected]]

I understand the reasoning, but scoring across comps is so wildly inconsistent that I do not think that is fair either.

Like 50 shades of gray there are different shades of fairness. The only real test of who is who is face to face competitions. Those who won in Courchavel have the chance of facing the Russians later on. Then it does not matter how previous stages were scored. Should those early legs winners prevail no one will ask questions whatever their scores are. So far, though, Lindsay has decided to skip the event with 4 Russians.

 

[daffygirl]

Lindsay has decided to skip the event with 4 Russians

You mean USFS has decided not to send her.

 

[breadstal]

Lindsay is now assigned to JGP Ljubljana, the 5th event with Mia Kalin. Karen Chen and Starr Andrews are assigned to Autumn Classic!

 

[mrrice]

I just watched a Video of Isabeau's FP from Milwaukee. If I didn't know she was from the US, I would have sworn she was from Russia. The costuming with the Gloves, her Posture, and her style remind me of a young Evgenia Medvedeva. She is really special and I hope she can maintain this level as she gets older, What a bright future she has.

 

[[email protected]]

You mean USFS has decided not to send her.

So what? There was an argument that scores are as bad as placements because of judging inconsistency. There was my reply that face to face competiotn is "the greatest equalizer". And the statement of the fact that Lindsay is going to miss the competition with 4 Russians. Was it her personal or USFS decision, my point is that in such a situation taking the best score is fairer than using placements.

 

[daffygirl]

So what? There was an argument that scores are as bad as placements because of judging inconsistency. There was my reply that face to face competiotn is "the greatest equalizer". And the statement of the fact that Lindsay is going to miss the competition with 4 Russians. Was it her personal or USFS decision, my point is that in such a situation taking the best score is fairer than using placements.

Because by saying "Lindsay decided to skip" you are implying that she is afraid to meet the Russians. If you had said "The US decided to remove her from that competition" there would be no issue.

 

[el henry]

Like 50 shades of gray there are different shades of fairness. The only real test of who is who is face to face competitions. Those who won in Courchavel have the chance of facing the Russians later on. Then it does not matter how previous stages were scored. Should those early legs winners prevail no one will ask questions whatever their scores are. So far, though, Lindsay has decided to skip the event with 4 Russians.

I'm not sure that is Lindsay's call.

I do understand the issue with the women's field. I saw somewhere (perhaps a post? I would like to acknowledge but I don't know where I saw it) that an expanded Grand Prix Final field, perhaps choosing six "normally" and then the next three by scores? There is no good answer, but this seems reasonable.

Then everyone can skate face to face, or blade to blade.

 

[ice coverage]

... I saw somewhere (perhaps a post? I would like to acknowledge but I don't know where I saw it) that an expanded Grand Prix Final field, perhaps choosing six "normally" and then the next three by scores? There is no good answer, but this seems reasonable. ...

Thank you for mentioning the possibility of a two-pronged system for JGPF qualification.

I was not aware of whatever you originally saw, but I had been wondering whether the ISU possibly would consider this type of approach.

---

Lindsay is now assigned to JGP Ljubljana, the 5th event with Mia Kalin. ...

Per USFS as of Aug 23, Lindsay and Mia are "not officially assigned to" JGP Ljublana -- as indicated by the double asterisks on the USFS assignments page.

 

[Climb]

I'm not sure that is Lindsay's call.

I do understand the issue with the women's field. I saw somewhere (perhaps a post? I would like to acknowledge but I don't know where I saw it) that an expanded Grand Prix Final field, perhaps choosing six "normally" and then the next three by scores? There is no good answer, but this seems reasonable.

Then everyone can skate face to face, or blade to blade.

Now i see your idea of "fairness"

Lakernik said that "selecting JGP finalists only by placements wouldn't be fair and it is too early to talk about now" (Aug 10)
So, they can actually use placements. Also, they are waiting.

Apparently discriminating against Russians is the norm nowadays. I don't believe that ISU will go that far. It seems way too egregious but we'll see.

 

[Sjs5572]

Because by saying "Lindsay decided to skip" you are implying that she is afraid to meet the Russians. If you had said "The US decided to remove her from that competition" there would be no issue.

Yep, when it comes to non-Russian skaters, Sam provides more shade than an oak tree in July.

 

[Hyena]

I don't think either method is completely fair, but that going by total scores is probably the most reasonable in the current situation. And on the topic of US women, I'm looking forward to seeing what Lindsey can do next regardless of where she is.

 

[Tavi...]

So what? There was an argument that scores are as bad as placements because of judging inconsistency. There was my reply that face to face competiotn is "the greatest equalizer". And the statement of the fact that Lindsay is going to miss the competition with 4 Russians. Was it her personal or USFS decision, my point is that in such a situation taking the best score is fairer than using placements.

Since the Russian fed moves skaters from one JGP assignment to another every year in order to give them the best possible chance of medaling/ making the final-and to the extent possible I’m sure they’ll do it this season as well-it seems a little disingenuous to criticize the US fed and / or Lindsey if they are, in fact, doing the same. It really doesn’t matter whether the criteria are highest scores or medals; you can be sure that any fed with contenders for the final will be jockeying for an advantage.

 

[Minz]

Alright, I have finished updating the first post. The 2020-21 Season Results are in the link that is in the post. When you click that link you will be prompted with a PDF. I have created the PDF, and it contains links that go directly to different result pages. I will be updating more as the season goes on, so check back there for assignment updates and stuff. Let me know if you have any questions!

 

[[email protected]]

Yep, when it comes to non-Russian skaters, Sam provides more shade than an oak tree in July.

I would put it differently. It's absolute OK for non-Russians to put whatever "critical analysis" of Russian skaters in RLT. but once a Russian "provides shade" here it's an immediate response with posts like that.

 

[[email protected]]

Since the Russian fed moves skaters from one JGP assignment to another every year in order to give them the best possible chance of medaling/ making the final-and to the extent possible I’m sure they’ll do it this season as well-it seems a little disingenuous to criticize the US fed and / or Lindsey if they are, in fact, doing the same. It really doesn’t matter whether the criteria are highest scores or medals; you can be sure that any fed with contenders for the final will be jockeying for an advantage.

You and others here are either consciously shifting the focus off my point for whatever reason or my lack of recent travel to English speaking countries (last time I was in the U.S. was 2019) has affected my eloquency and phrase construction. But I can repeat - not a problem at all.

I see no issues, no cowardness in Lindsays' shifting off the event where she would face the toughest competition. I see an issue if placements were used as the criterion when number 4 would score above 181 - Lindsay's result in Courchavel. And I strongly think that "judging inconsistency" is much less important "shade of grey" than "unreal placements" when the strongest competitors from Russia and Japan just could not physically be present due to the constraints imposed by France.

 

[Tavi...]

You and others here are either consciously shifting the focus off my point for whatever reason or my lack of recent travel to English speaking countries (last time I was in the U.S. was 2019) has affected my eloquency and phrase construction. But I can repeat - not a problem at all.

I see no issues, no cowardness in Lindsays' shifting off the event where she would face the toughest competition. I see an issue if placements were used as the criterion when number 4 would score above 181 - Lindsay's result in Courchavel. And I strongly think that "judging inconsistency" is much less important "shade of grey" than "unreal placements" when the strongest competitors from Russia and Japan just could not physically be present due to the constraints imposed by France.

I appreciate your clarification but I think people are reacting to the fact that your point regarding “unreal placements” is based on an as yet unproven assumption: that the Russian skaters are so much stronger than Lindsey that even #4 would inevitably outscore her, and thus that if they’d been at Courchevel, at best Lindsey would have taken bronze there. Perhaps that’s true, but since right now only Anna Frolova has ISU PB scores-which really aren’t that much higher than Lindsey’s-you don’t really know. And I would not look to the results of JGP Russia to gauge the truth because those scores are likely to be generous for Russian skaters.

Regarding the Japanese skaters, I think you’re mistaken as to why they’re not at the early competitions; that was a blanket choice by their fed (they’re not sending anyone to the first 3 comps) that had nothing to do with constraints imposed by France.