2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[dancelion21]

Two solid and respectable GP performances from Alysa. I think she cemented her position as number 1 US woman.

Alysa with 7 UR jumps in the free skate managed to put up a score that matches the scores of other US women when they go perfect. Clean Karen Chen with her 4th at worlds scored a lower FS score than what Alysa did.

Karen wasn't really clean at Worlds. She only received positive GOE on 3 of her 7 jumping passes and got a < and multiple q calls. It's just for Karen, that's about as clean as she can get. It feels very unrealistic to expect Karen to be able to improve her jumps to the point that she eliminates her UR/q to just 1 or 2 in a free program. So instead, Karen's peak is being able to land all her jumps without obvious mistakes, like step outs, and then hoping the tech caller is generous.

Alysa is different in that she is capable of doing cleaner programs with fewer underrotations. We saw it earlier this season at the challenger events when she was doing easier combos in the second half of her program. In those programs, she was generally getting just 2 UR/q on two passes, the 3A and the 3Lz+3T combo. Alysa's also younger and still adjusting to a new coaching team, so it feels like she has more potential for improvement than Karen.

 

[katymay]

The women who scored above Alysa deserved it. She has so many good qualities but the judges aren't going to reward her jumps due to her lack of running edge and height.

She is an incredible stable skater though ..

May Bradie heal. May Lindsay skate well at Nationals. I don't have a lot of confidence in our other skaters.

Well yeah. It is Alysa...and no one else. Gabby did well at her championship, but she is doing something wrong on all of her jumps where she isn't snapping into rotation quickly enough, and while she pulls them out, it is barely. It's a bummer to watch, because she has plenty of power in her legs.. It seems like something that could be fixed with off ice jump training/ropes rotation work. Karen-with the UR's, and a program I'm sick to death of. Amber-well that was a mess today, and she really needed to skate well. Lindsay has perfect jumps, but it like she is pondering the exact physics of each one before she jumps. If Lindsay had a year, I think she would be a huge threat to make the team, all the parts are there, she just hasn't connected them yet. Everything she does is well done, but she skates so carefully and slowly and fails to command the ice. I guess at this point we all must pray that Mariah is back and ready to compete, and that Brady can heal and return to her former self. Our senior ladies this year-except for Alysa-are the least competitive ever I think.

 

[moonvine]

There has been so much hype about Amber's personality/3axel/confidence/presentation since the beginning of the season, that I've been giving her some slack over and over again, but it's time to state obvious: in today's fs ladies field she's an average skater with less than average competitive nerve.

It was obvious to me she was injured.

 

[Moxiejan]

Well 'injury' might be an excuse for NHK but the problem is that this was not a unique outing for Amber, this season is in line with how her career has gone - a few good performances and a few rough performances with bad placements.

The good news for Amber right now is that the US senior ladies as a whole have not been stand-out to this point, the top performance is Alysa finishing fourth here in a field that lost its heavy hitters/medal favorites before the competition started.

It was my own observation that Amber appeared to be skating injured; no one on her team gave that as an "excuse."
And I don't recall her as one who has given excuses for past poor performances.

 

[readernick]

. If Lindsay had a year, I think she would be a huge threat to make the team, all the parts are there, she just hasn't connected them

No doubt. She has growing to do. However, I would send her over Karen and Amber even though I prefer both Karen and Amber when they are "on." She will get good GOE on her jumps, spins, and Step Seq. Maybe, Karen would get 4 points more in PCS but she will give that up with all her URs.

Perhaps, Mariah will come to her GP prepared, perhaps Bradie will manage to heal. If not, I see Lindsay on the team. Her skating is more exciting than Polina's ever was and they sent Polina....

 

[Lzbee]

Injuries are reasons not excuses.

That said, Amber didn't help her case today but there's still time and even if she doesn't go to another international competition before nationals, if she can post a clean program with decent base value at nationals, I don't think they will pass over her.

There's a lot of doom and gloom about Alysa but NHK tech panel was closer to Skate America than Italy and she was only 3 points away from silver. Yes it was a "nerfed" field but it was still a field where almost all competitors had the potential to score in the 200-225 range and two other 3A jumpers. From reading the reactions here before watching her skate, I thought she'd melted down but she was clean. She's missed GPF but it's better to peak for world's or Olympics tbh.

 

[readernick]

Injuries are reasons not excuses.

This is one hundred percent true. However, the end result for Amber is the same. She was unable to help her case and if the injury is recurring it will likely affect her performance at Nationals, too.

Alysa never melts down. It is her best quality. She just needs to jump with more speed and height to finish her rotations. Also, she was off her music here which didn't help sell her program.

It is interesting how much of an outlier the GP Italy competition was, the others have all had strict technical calling but the callers in the women's event at GP Italy were blind.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Alysa really needs to get rid of that 3Lz+1Eu+3F combo in the FS, she's struggling to rotate it and it's not even worth the hassle. A solo 3F and 3Lz+1Eu+3S would've been a more natural upgrade from the 2A+1Eu+3S. The URs are killing her scores and this felt like a missed opportunity for a podium spot. I'm sure having to peak for Nebelhorn had an effect on her GP season but she has plenty of time to prepare for Nationals so I really hope the team aim for a smarter FS layout.

I do feel bad for her tbh, people have put a lot of pressure on this girl to put a dent in Russian dominance. And those expectations were only based on her winning a couple of senior Bs where none of the main competition were present. Alysa always seems happy though, so I hope it's not getting to her.

I appreciate that she's trying different things to up her base value. I see it as a positive that she's still consistently scoring over 200 despite some of the problems she's having executing the difficult combos and the 3A. Like you, I wish people would stop trying to hype her up like she's going to challenge Kamila for the OGM instead of just enjoying her journey and watching her improve.

 

[Amei]

It was my own observation that Amber appeared to be skating injured; no one on her team gave that as an "excuse."
And I don't recall her as one who has given excuses for past poor performances.

I didn't say she was using it as an excuse here or in the past. My point was even if she is currently injured, this performance/placement is pretty standard Amber, look at her competitive history -- she's been competing as a senior internationally since the 2016-2017 season, internationally she has medaled once, it was a bronze at a US challenger event. Up until the 2019-2020 season she had never placed in the top 5 at senior Nationals.

 

[mrrice]

Ok, I just watched Alysa's SP from NHK. Was she going for the 3A as her opening jump? If so, she UR'd so badly it looked like she fell on a 2A which is not good. A nice recovery but, it's a huge risk to put a 3A in your SP. If you don't have that jump in your "Back Pocket" it puts her in a hole that is very difficult to climb out of, especially in a deep field. There were no Russian Ladies there and it worries me to see her finish this low after a strong start to the season. Maybe it's fatigue.

 

[Amei]

Ok, I just watched Alysa's SP from NHK. Was she going for the 3A as her opening jump? If so, she UR'd so badly it looked like she fell on a 2A which is not good. A nice recovery but, it's a huge risk to put a 3A in your SP if you don't have that jump in your "Back Pocket" it puts her in a hole that is very difficult to climb out of, especially in a deep field. There were no Russian Ladies there and it worries me to see her finish this low after a strong start to the season. Maybe it's fatigue.

She was going for the triple axel and they very generously only called it an under-rotation, from my view it should have been downgraded.

Protocols

 

[skatingiscool]

Ok, I just watched Alysa's SP from NHK. Was she going for the 3A as her opening jump? If so, she UR'd so badly it looked like she fell on a 2A which is not good. A nice recovery but, it's a huge risk to put a 3A in your SP if you don't have that jump in your "Back Pocket" it puts her in a hole that is very difficult to climb out of, especially in a deep field. There were no Russian Ladies there and it worries me to see her finish this low after a strong start to the season. Maybe it's fatigue.

Nothing to worry about Alysa.....yet! Fourth place at NHK and just 3 points away from Silver is very impressive! Alysa almost got bronze medal. Alysa just had a bad luck by falling on her 3A in SP. She landed 3A in practice just fine before SP competition. If Alysa is 30 points away from Silver (which she is not), then her team needs to revisit her layout. I hope Alysa doesn't try 3A in SP at Nationals, placing in top 3 or even top 5 is more important than winning championship. I hope she plays it safe and go back to Lombardia layout next time.

 

[skatingiscool]

Two solid and respectable GP performances from Alysa. I think she cemented her position as number 1 US woman.

Alysa with 7 UR jumps in the free skate managed to put up a score that matches the scores of other US women when they go perfect. Clean Karen Chen with her 4th at worlds scored a lower FS score than what Alysa did.

'
Alysa scores 200+ in all 6 competitions this season so far. By comparison, both Amber and Karen only score 200+ once this season so far. Alysa is way far ahead of other top US contenders.

Silicon Valley Open
Cranberry
Lombardia
Nebelhorn Tropy
Skate Canada
NHK Trophy

 

[lurkerghost1]

I know people want to count out Karen. But if Karen shows up to nationals and lands her jumps, she will be a threat to win. She typically hits her levels and there will be a (deserved) PCS and GOE advantage compared to skaters like Alysa and Lindsay (and Amber, who doesn’t seem to hit her levels and has lower BV) She can convincingly rotate her solo jumps with good GOE and if she can make those combos happen without disruptive errors (even with Qs or an UR) she is a threat, because she’s Karen Chen, and she will be the most highly rewarded for the elements she completes well.

I’m only saying this because people are willing to count Karen out, knowing that she doesn’t need a strong season to be rewarded at nationals, though of course that would help her. So there’s no reason to count her out, really.

With that being said, I’m going to keep manifesting Karen changes her FS combos to 2A3T and 3Lzeu3s

It really seems to me like doing the 3-3 has helped her PCS though. 69 PCS at finlandia vs. 66 at Worlds where she didn't have 3-3. Of all the skaters that were at both worlds and finlandia I think that's the highest jump.

Nothing to worry about Alysa.....yet! Fourth place at NHK and just 3 points away from Silver is very impressive! Alysa almost got bronze medal. Alysa just had a bad luck by falling on her 3A in SP. She landed 3A in practice just fine before SP competition. If Alysa is 30 points away from Silver (which she is not), then her team needs to revisit her layout. I hope Alysa doesn't try 3A in SP at Nationals, placing in top 3 or even top 5 is more important than winning championship. I hope she plays it safe and go back to Lombardia layout next time.

well to be honest the withdrawals from NHK made it easier and the fact she still didn't podium wasn't great. She would have been 6th at Skate America and Italy with that score, 15 points from America silver and 24 points from Italy silver. The more important point for Alysa though is that the 202 is certainly beatable by Bradie, Mariah, Karen, Amber, and possibly Lindsay. Whereas if she is north of 210 the only one who can beat her is Bradie. Now its true the national panel will be more forgiving of her URs but they will be for Karen as well.

I agree that she shouldn't go for the 3A at the nationals, especially when she already placed 2nd at nationals short program last year with a score of 76. With Bradie a huge question mark Alysa could certainly win the national short program even without 3A

 

[loopy1217]

It appeared that Amber was skating injured & STILL powered through a full LP; she refused to quit. Certainly shows competitive nerve.

You can see it as brave but I am seeing it a sign of not being strategic. Let say she make the team and injure right before olympic, is that what she or her team want?

 

[Dawn825]

There's no question that Alysa is still the top US lady, the question is how well she would do at the Olympics against a full field of the World's best. At the start of the season I thought she was looking all set to be top 6 but now I'm not sure at all. Whichever 3 Japanese ladies make the team could all beat her, as could Young You or even Loena.
The URs are a big problem. If it's something that can be helped by changing her layout they should do that asap, since she's starting to get one of those unshakeable reputations. But I would keep the 3A, even if at best it's a q, since it's the only thing that really makes her relevant.

 

[Ichk]

Solid season so far for Alysa.

It’s too bad that she suffered this season with so many technical calls. She seems to struggle with her triple toe in combination. However, I think her primary problem is stamina, especially with her combos being in the second half. She was able to get clean a clean 3Lz+3T for the majority of her SP skates this season (albeit NHK, where I think she was rattled by her fall on the 3A).

Also, I don’t think she is going for the 3Lz+Eu+3F for the extra base value. She’s stated that her favorite jumps are the Lutz and Flip and I think it might be the easiest triple triple for her to do considering with how she struggles with her toe loop. Her training mate Kurakova also has a similar problem and is maybe where the inspo came from to do the combo.

I think the smart thing to do is to keep her layout at NHK and maybe switch the 2A+3T to 2A+Eu+3S and make the toe loop the solo jump instead of the salchow.

Overall, she’s improved so much throughout the season—more speed, better ice coverage, more transitions, and her 3A is finally on the q. I believe that her and her team will be able to work out the kinks and get her conditioned before nationals and the Olympics.

 

[Sjs5572]

Solid season so far for Alysa.

It’s too bad that she suffered this season with so many technical calls. She seems to struggle with her triple toe in combination. However, I think her primary problem is stamina, especially with her combos being in the second half. She was able to get clean a clean 3Lz+3T for the majority of her SP skates this season (albeit NHK, where I think she was rattled by her fall on the 3A).

Also, I don’t think she is going for the 3Lz+Eu+3F for the extra base value. She’s stated that her favorite jumps are the Lutz and Flip and I think it might be the easiest triple triple for her to do considering with how she struggles with her toe loop. Her training mate Kurakova also has a similar problem and is maybe where the inspo came from to do the combo.

I think the smart thing to do is to keep her layout at NHK and maybe switch the 2A+3T to 2A+Eu+3S and make the 3T the solo jump.

Overall, she’s improved so much throughout the season—more speed, better ice coverage, more transitions, and her 3A is finally on the q. I believe that her and her team will be able to work out the kinks and get her conditioned before nationals and the Olympics.

I agree with everything, except if you switched out the combos, then how would she do an eight triple program unless she does a triple/triple?

 

[Ichk]

I agree with everything, except if you switched out the combos, then how would she do an eight triple program unless she does a triple/triple?

Oh I meant to say she would be subbing the 3S and 2A+3T for a 3T and 2A+Eu+3S. She got a q on 2A+3T and has never gotten a q or UR on her 2A+Eu+3S combo. I’m confident she can cleanly land a single 3T. She would still have 8 triples in her program when you include the 3Lz+Eu+3F in the second half. I don’t know if it’s possible to have 2 Euler combos in a program tho.

 

[Sjs5572]

Oh I meant to say she would be subbing the 3S and 2A+3T for a 3T and 2A+Eu+3S. She got a q on 2A+3T and has never gotten a q or UR on her 2A+Eu+3S combo. I’m confident she can cleanly land a single 3T. She would still have 8 triples in her program when you include the 3Lz+Eu+3F in the second half. I don’t know if it’s possible to have 2 Euler combos in a program tho.

You can only have one three jump combo.