2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[alexocfp]

It has to be discouraging to the current group of US coaches that there's no chance of World medals anytime in the future due to the Russian hegemony. No US coaches know how to train subteens to land quads. And parents of US skaters won't want to pay big bucks to have their young children painfully stretched to develop ultra-flexibility, or have their young teens encouraged to limit food intake and exercise intensively to delay physical maturity.

It doesn’t matter what the parents want, the next generation of skaters will want to emulate the champions they see on TV.

The young wanna be skaters are going to watch the Olympics, see things they never saw on an Olympic stage before, and will want to surpass that.

Liu, for instance, wants to up her technical content to become a contender.

Quads will be the norm in a few years, so everyone is going to adjust and start finding athletes that can be taught to do them.

The old coaches will need to adjust or they will be replaced.

In a few years a few of the skaters now will become coaches. They will be teaching high tech elements.

The real problem is that the Russians will be up to 4A’s and quintuple jumps by the time the world catches up. Haha

 

[el henry]

I personally mentioned Raf because the thing Alysa wants to work on is her jumps, and that's supposed to be Raf's specialty. He teaches quads as well so if that's what she's aiming for, she would be in the right place. She would also be training there in California, much closer to home. As I also mentioned, Nathan is there and Alysa has stated on multiple occasions that he inspires and motivates her. And he's also very textbook in his jumps so maybe Alysa could pick up on a few things training alongside him.

With that said, Raf doesn't seem to be a realistic option so it's silly to be even talking about it

I appreciate your answers and your reasons make sense. When I was posting, I was thinking more generally, and not about any one post. There are many good coaches in the world, and more than one or two good jump coaches, if that is what a skater is looking for. Sometimes I feel sorry for them, when Raf and Brian get all the attention.

Those are the two coaches that come to my mind when thinking of jumping. We’ve lost some good coaches (Frank Carroll and Mr John Nicks come to mind) and I’m not sure who is replacing them.

I think that is an issue for USFS. Why do people only think of one or two successful coaches? Why don't we know about other coaches and what they do and where they specialize. A successful student is great, but no successful skater is the result only of a coach.

So I was just expressing general frustrations.

 

[MiraiFan]

And parents of US skaters won't want to pay big bucks to have their young children painfully stretched to develop ultra-flexibility, or have their young teens encouraged to limit food intake and exercise intensively to delay physical maturity.

For damn good reason! For starters, it's skating, not rhythmic gymnastics, which I don't find appealing to watch at all. A nice spiral is fine, but I don't need to see a dislocated hip or compressed spine in every spin. Some of those girls will end up with permanent joint damage since this stretching is not done in concert with a serious strengthening and PT regime.

 

[moonvine]

It has to be discouraging to the current group of US coaches that there's no chance of World medals anytime in the future due to the Russian hegemony. No US coaches know how to train subteens to land quads. And parents of US skaters won't want to pay big bucks to have their young children painfully stretched to develop ultra-flexibility, or have their young teens encouraged to limit food intake and exercise intensively to delay physical maturity.

And rightly so. That is not ok. It is not ok to do that to an athlete. I hope it is covered in Safesport. There is no medal on earth worth that. I would rather we never won another medal than have that going on. That is the kind of stuff that was going on under the Karolyis for decades and USA gymnastics turned a blind eye to it. If an athlete had a career ending injury there was no shortage of athletes wanting to take her place. They did not care if the athletes they coached would have long term health consequences. Only medals were important.

 

[yelyoh]

And rightly so. That is not ok. It is not ok to do that to an athlete. I hope it is covered in Safesport. There is no medal on earth worth that. I would rather we never won another medal than have that going on. That is the kind of stuff that was going on under the Karolyis for decades and USA gymnastics turned a blind eye to it. If an athlete had a career ending injury there was no shortage of athletes wanting to take her place. They did not care if the athletes they coached would have long term health consequences. Only medals were important.

Not to mention all of the sexual abuse that occurred with impunity.

 

[moonvine]

I appreciate your answers and your reasons make sense. When I was posting, I was thinking more generally, and not about any one post. There are many good coaches in the world, and more than one or two good jump coaches, if that is what a skater is looking for. Sometimes I feel sorry for them, when Raf and Brian get all the attention.



I think that is an issue for USFS. Why do people only think of one or two successful coaches? Why don't we know about other coaches and what they do and where they specialize. A successful student is great, but no successful skater is the result only of a coach.

So I was just expressing general frustrations.

We know some. We know Derrick Delmore has Starr, but I’ve not seen her improve much in several years. We have Tammy Gambill whose students are known for under rotation. We have Tom Z, I don’t think Bradie is improving all that much, though granted we’ve not seen her this year. Kori Ade, Robin Wagner - I know Robin has been choreographing, not sure about coaching. And Adam who is relatively new to coaching. Christy Krall and Drew Meekons. Sarah Hughes was coaching at Figure Skating of Harlem for awhile but she’s an attorney now. Out of all those i still think Raf and Orser are best known for teaching jumps.

 

[mrrice]

I personally mentioned Raf because the thing Alysa wants to work on is her jumps, and that's supposed to be Raf's specialty. He teaches quads as well so if that's what she's aiming for, she would be in the right place. She would also be training there in California, much closer to home. As I also mentioned, Nathan is there and Alysa has stated on multiple occasions that he inspires and motivates her. And he's also very textbook in his jumps so maybe Alysa could pick up on a few things training alongside him.

With that said, Raf doesn't seem to be a realistic option so it's silly to be even talking about it

Exactly! Plus, I think we all know where Raf's focus is going to be until the Olympics and that's on Nathan. I can only imagine the tension between Mariah and Alysa if they were in the same rink leading up to Nationals. Even If the skaters get along, I think the parents might have a problem when it comes to which skater he seems to prefer. Alysa has already chosen Christy as her coach and I imagine she'll have a huge say in who coaches Alysa on her jumps.

 

[SaDa]

I can only imagine the tension between Mariah and Alysa if they were in the same rink leading up to Nationals.

Is that a thing between them? Just curious because I don't really follow the US ladies.
I mean, it's quite common for training mates to be competing against one another for spots but, I mean, do they not get along?

 

[mrrice]

Is that a thing between them? Just curious because I don't really follow the US ladies.
I mean, it's quite common for training mates to be competing against one another for spots but, I mean, do they not get along?

In my experience as a dance teacher, when Solo Competitions came around, the tension between the dancers would increase. Even though they danced together in the group routines, there was always tension in the air as we got closer and closer to the competition. With Olympic Spots on the line, I can only imagine the amount of stress on the skaters and their coaches. Remember when Johnny Weir was commenting on UR's at Nationals. He said "These are people's lives you're playing with" and I completely agree.

Bradie Tennell's RECORD SETTING short program at US Nationals | NBC Sports

Bradie Tennell posted the highest score ever in a US Nationals short program, allowing her to take a slim lead over Alysa Liu heading into the free skate #NB...

www.youtube.com

 

[Tavi...]

In my experience as a dance teacher, when Solo Competitions came around, the tension between the dancers would increase. Even though they danced together in the group routines, there was always tension in the air as we got closer and closer to the competition. With Olympic Spots on the line, I can only imagine the amount of stress on the skaters and their coaches.

Yes. OT for this thread, but I remember hearing that even though Yuzu and Javi were great training mates, when the Olympic year came around, they often trained separately (ie one was working on TCC’s home rink and the other was at an auxiliary rink they sometimes use (Scotiabank Pond, I think?)).

 

[mrrice]

It doesn’t matter what the parents want, the next generation of skaters will want to emulate the champions they see on TV.

The young wanna be skaters are going to watch the Olympics, see things they never saw on an Olympic stage before, and will want to surpass that.

Liu, for instance, wants to up her technical content to become a contender.

Quads will be the norm in a few years, so everyone is going to adjust and start finding athletes that can be taught to do them.

The old coaches will need to adjust or they will be replaced.

In a few years a few of the skaters now will become coaches. They will be teaching high tech elements.

The real problem is that the Russians will be up to 4A’s and quintuple jumps by the time the world catches up. Haha

This line is especially true. Remember how many skaters got the "Hamill" haircut after she won the Olympics?

 

[Gullygirl84]

Exactly! Plus, I think we all know where Raf's focus is going to be until the Olympics and that's on Nathan. I can only imagine the tension between Mariah and Alysa if they were in the same rink leading up to Nationals. Even If the skaters get along, I think the parents might have a problem when it comes to which skater he seems to prefer. Alysa has already chosen Christy as her coach and I imagine she'll have a huge say in who coaches Alysa on her jumps.

For what it's worth, I remember Ashley and Mariah always (seemingly) having a friendly dynamic when they trained together-though again, it may be a bit different in this case where a parent is involved. Polina Edmunds and Mirai Nagasu do GP recaps together on their instagram pages, and they both agreed with each other that they would NOT ever want to train with one of their biggest rivals, however. BTW, does Raf get any blame for Mariah not having a stable triple triple, or does he (and Adam) only get credit for when she has done well in the last quad? I don't think that Mariah ever particularly had an issue with unders. What about for neither Ashley or Mariah making the 2018 Olympic team? Just food for thought while we are on the topic of coaches. I do think that Raf is a great coach, and that Mariah is very capable of making the Olympic team this year.

 

[alexocfp]

This line is especially true. Remember how many skaters got the "Hamill" haircut after she won the Olympics?

Now we will have skaters with red hair. Haha

 

[Lutzedge]

I appreciate your answers and your reasons make sense. When I was posting, I was thinking more generally, and not about any one post. There are many good coaches in the world, and more than one or two good jump coaches, if that is what a skater is looking for. Sometimes I feel sorry for them, when Raf and Brian get all the attention.



I think that is an issue for USFS. Why do people only think of one or two successful coaches? Why don't we know about other coaches and what they do and where they specialize. A successful student is great, but no successful skater is the result only of a coach.

So I was just expressing general frustrations.

Jumps do seem to be practically the only thing Alysa needs big improvement on now. What I am wondering is: Who is one of the best jumping coaches in the US that could really help Alysa?

 

[chuckm]

It doesn’t matter what the parents want, the next generation of skaters will want to emulate the champions they see on TV.

The young wanna be skaters are going to watch the Olympics, see things they never saw on an Olympic stage before, and will want to surpass that.

And the kids are going to pay the coaches???

Liu, for instance, wants to up her technical content to become a contender.

But she's not getting it done---she hasn't rotated her 3a and hasn't attempted a quad in years.

Quads will be the norm in a few years, so everyone is going to adjust and start finding athletes that can be taught to do them.

The old coaches will need to adjust or they will be replaced.

In a few years a few of the skaters now will become coaches. They will be teaching high tech elements.

The real problem is that the Russians will be up to 4A’s and quintuple jumps by the time the world catches up. Haha

And they will have very short careers, even shorter than they have been. As it is, only the Russian women have been successful, and they have all been purporsely kept underweight and overexcercised so as to delay puberty. If you keep young skaters on a starvation diet and then have them pound away on those quads, their bones will be brittle and prone to breakage, and then they pound away with those quads.

 

[Thrashergurl]

It doesn’t matter what the parents want, the next generation of skaters will want to emulate the champions they see on TV.

The young wanna be skaters are going to watch the Olympics, see things they never saw on an Olympic stage before, and will want to surpass that.

Liu, for instance, wants to up her technical content to become a contender.

Quads will be the norm in a few years, so everyone is going to adjust and start finding athletes that can be taught to do them.

The old coaches will need to adjust or they will be replaced.

In a few years a few of the skaters now will become coaches. They will be teaching high tech elements.

The real problem is that the Russians will be up to 4A’s and quintuple jumps by the time the world catches up. Haha

I kind of disagree with this. The kids watching admire the skater on the ice and want to be more like them. It’s not the elements themselves the kids watching are admiring.
The problem I see with the Russians is that they show very little personality on the ice, and stick around a short period of time and the kids today don’t really get to idolize them. Not many kids outside of Russia that watched the Olympics remember Zagitova. They might say that little girl that wore a tutu and jumped a lot, but not many remember HER.

 

[readernick]

Jumps do seem to be practically the only thing Alysa needs big improvement on now. What I am wondering is: Who is one of the best jumping coaches in the US that could really help Alysa?

Actually, Christy Krall is an amazing technician responsible for teaching beautiful quads to skaters like Patrick Chan. The issue with most of her skaters has always been that even though they have great technique, they lack consistency. This may not matter for Alysa though. Alysa is a natural competitor. So, this coaching change might be a good one. I just don't think that it's wise to change coaches when the Olympic games are so close.

 

[b-man]

I kind of disagree with this. The kids watching admire the skater on the ice and want to be more like them. It’s not the elements themselves the kids watching are admiring.
The problem I see with the Russians is that they show very little personality on the ice, and stick around a short period of time and the kids today don’t really get to idolize them. Not many kids outside of Russia that watched the Olympics remember Zagitova. They might say that little girl that wore a tutu and jumped a lot, but not many remember HER.

Don't agree with this. Fans and viewers remember the winners. Even here on GS, an English language forum, The Russian ladies" thread has over 500k views, while the US ladies' thread is much less at 300k + views. The disagreements over individual slaters are more intense, more passionate, than discussions on this thread.

 

[moonvine]

Don't agree with this. Fans and viewers remember the winners. Even here on GS, an English language forum, The Russian ladies" thread has over 500k views, while the US ladies' thread is much less at 300k + views. The disagreements over individual slaters are more intense, more passionate, than discussions on this thread.

For figure skating fans who follow the sport closely yes. Although I don’t think I’ve ever looked in it. For kids who are just seeing the sport at the Olympics I’m not so sure.

 

[Lzbee]

For figure skating fans who follow the sport closely yes. Although I don’t think I’ve ever looked in it. For kids who are just seeing the sport at the Olympics I’m not so sure.

This would be the case for any winner that is not from their own country no?