2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating
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As things stand, I would bet on Madeline making the top ten sooner than bet on keeping two men's spots.
A little off topic... but looking into the crystal ball for the future of Canadian skating
Coach Scott Davis has a little skating phenom by the name of Lia Cho. Watch her freeskate from Alberta Sectionals this weekend, I think she is a little Mao Shimada in the wings. Triple axel seems like it could be in her cards the way she she is reeling off these triples at a very young age of course barring injury!
Coach Scott Davis has a little skating phenom by the name of Lia Cho. Watch her freeskate from Alberta Sectionals this weekend, I think she is a little Mao Shimada in the wings. Triple axel seems like it could be in her cards the way she she is reeling off these triples at a very young age of course barring injury!
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@RatedPG has been raving about her !!!! I was planning to check her out then forgot. Now, two people have mentioned her, so I will remember
thanks !
From the Patinage Quebec sectionals archives, Gabriella Izzo/Thierry Ferland skate their short program at around 0:14 and their free program at around 1:13.
Also, Lia’s SP at Sectionals was:
3F
3Lz-3T<
2A
She fell on the 3T of the combo at the previous competition. So, the fact she landed this combo this time around showed progress. Now, she just has to fully rotate the 3T and move the combo to the second half
She was last year’s Canadian Pre-Novice Champion and last year there was an interview where she wanted to add the 3Lo to her free skate, but, Scott Davis told her that she can only add this jump if she lands the 3F, 3S and 2A at Nationals. Which, she did. So, she was able to add 3Lo to Canada Games. So, this shows that she is eager to learn new jumps and to compete them. After 3Lo, she has added 3Lz this year.
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- Oct 22, 2022
Well, if anyone can teach her spins it would be Scott Davis! Such a pity when his career as a great spinner may have been what caused the vertigo problem that forced his retirement.
Yup. In theory, she has the right coach for spins. However, Kaiya seems to struggle with her spins. So, fingers crossed Lia can master these elements.
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Thanks for sharing.
Work in progress. Good they competed here. I think all pairs get to challenge and even nationals, so that will give them time.
I am a bit surprised to see that it seems harder for them than for Fiona and Gabriel.
What is nice is to see that some of the mistakes on elements are not the same in both programs. For instance the twist was okay in the SP and misfired in the LP. SBS pop in the SP was at least rotated in the LP. Throws and lifts will need time... especially lifts... I don't think it is coming easily to be carried up there for Gabriella. She doesn't seem yet comfortable with both mounting and being up there changing positions. Of course, again, it will come. At the same time, they have time to get these things fixed as they cannot compete out of Canada for a while.
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- Dec 7, 2022
It was not my intention to put her down. Of course we can enjoy skaters of all kinds of levels, there are many I simply like no matter if they make it to worlds or GPs or whatever.
However, I am always having my issues with this approach of getting certain skaters to worlds. In the end there is a limited amount of skaters who can take part and I would even limit it more because those watching marathons are only for the absolute hardcore fans and I cannot expect judges to be extremely attentive for this huge amount of skaters one after the other.
The way I understand it there will soon be qualification rounds again and that's a good thing. My basic issue is that people from smaller feds have a lot easier way of getting there than much stronger athletes from other feds. In a way it equals the often bigger support and possibilities of big fed skaters (for instance from Russia), the ice time they get, the high class coaches they have access to, maybe the way schools are understanding etc... But these circumstances differ so much still. I'm not sure Japanese skaters have much more favourable circumstances than those of, let's say, Finland.
In the end it brings me much more sadness when for instance one of the amazing Japanese skaters doesn't make it to worlds although they are far ahead of someone like Josefin Taljegard or actually most (usually European) skaters. I do not necessarily enjoy watching them more then Josefin who has a more modern, fun approach than many others. But I feel they deserve to be there.
I remember a men's climbing competition I recently saw, a worldcup I think, where 7 of 8 or 8 of 9 of the athletes in the final were Japanese. They audience was rooting for the only non-Japanese because of that. Of course in a GP final in figure skating that can also happen. People don't want worlds to be that way. But then I am also thinking of climbing which has a huge amount of starters (about 100) in the WC and often there a rather big contingents from certain countries. They have a qualification round and semi-finals though. I prefer such a system.
About the tech minimums: I would not use TES only but the whole score. If you distrust the PCS scores so much you cannot use them, even if you use the GOEs, why even have them? It's pretty much admitting defeat of the scoring system and very inconsequent.
I am also not in favour of having such few events for skaters to qualify, but in the end I think, different from a lot of things that happen in this sport, pressure to perform to go further is not inhuman... it's part of sport. Hopefully all these athletes get support and don't see figure skating and their results in fs as the only source of validation and identity. I know Josefin certainly doesn't, and that's great, although irrelevant for now that she got her mins.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
It was not my intention to put her down. Of course we can enjoy skaters of all kinds of levels, there are many I simply like no matter if they make it to worlds or GPs or whatever.
However, I am always having my issues with this approach of getting certain skaters to worlds. In the end there is a limited amount of skaters who can take part and I would even limit it more because those watching marathons are only for the absolute hardcore fans and I cannot expect judges to be extremely attentive for this huge amount of skaters one after the other.
The way I understand it there will soon be qualification rounds again and that's a good thing. My basic issue is that people from smaller feds have a lot easier way of getting there than much stronger athletes from other feds. In a way it equals the often bigger support and possibilities of big fed skaters (for instance from Russia), the ice time they get, the high class coaches they have access to, maybe the way schools are understanding etc... But these circumstances differ so much still. I'm not sure Japanese skaters have much more favourable circumstances than those of, let's say, Finland.
In the end it brings me much more sadness when for instance one of the amazing Japanese skaters doesn't make it to worlds although they are far ahead of someone like Josefin Taljegard or actually most (usually European) skaters. I do not necessarily enjoy watching them more then Josefin who has a more modern, fun approach than many others. But I feel they deserve to be there.
I remember a men's climbing competition I recently saw, a worldcup I think, where 7 of 8 or 8 of 9 of the athletes in the final were Japanese. They audience was rooting for the only non-Japanese because of that. Of course in a GP final in figure skating that can also happen. People don't want worlds to be that way. But then I am also thinking of climbing which has a huge amount of starters (about 100) in the WC and often there a rather big contingents from certain countries. They have a qualification round and semi-finals though. I prefer such a system.
About the tech minimums: I would not use TES only but the whole score. If you distrust the PCS scores so much you cannot use them, even if you use the GOEs, why even have them? It's pretty much admitting defeat of the scoring system and very inconsequent.
I am also not in favour of having such few events for skaters to qualify, but in the end I think, different from a lot of things that happen in this sport, pressure to perform to go further is not inhuman... it's part of sport. Hopefully all these athletes get support and don't see figure skating and their results in fs as the only source of validation and identity. I know Josefin certainly doesn't, and that's great, although irrelevant for now that she got her mins.
Added: I realize I said I'm not "excited" about their skating. That doesn't mean they are not worth watching. Josefin is a great role model with sometimes entertaining programs, Sara-Maude certainly has qualities. What I meant is I don't watch them and think "this is outstanding and needs to be at worlds!"
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- Mar 7, 2015
Ok.. this is a topic for another thread as clearly, it's not a Canadian affair but an ISU decision.It was not my intention to put her down. Of course we can enjoy skaters of all kinds of levels, there are many I simply like no matter if they make it to worlds or GPs or whatever.
However, I am always having my issues with this approach of getting certain skaters to worlds. In the end there is a limited amount of skaters who can take part and I would even limit it more because those watching marathons are only for the absolute hardcore fans and I cannot expect judges to be extremely attentive for this huge amount of skaters one after the other.
The way I understand it there will soon be qualification rounds again and that's a good thing. My basic issue is that people from smaller feds have a lot easier way of getting there than much stronger athletes from other feds. In a way it equals the often bigger support and possibilities of big fed skaters (for instance from Russia), the ice time they get, the high class coaches they have access to, maybe the way schools are understanding etc... But these circumstances differ so much still. I'm not sure Japanese skaters have much more favourable circumstances than those of, let's say, Finland.
In the end it brings me much more sadness when for instance one of the amazing Japanese skaters doesn't make it to worlds although they are far ahead of someone like Josefin Taljegard or actually most (usually European) skaters. I do not necessarily enjoy watching them more then Josefin who has a more modern, fun approach than many others. But I feel they deserve to be there.
I remember a men's climbing competition I recently saw, a worldcup I think, where 7 of 8 or 8 of 9 of the athletes in the final were Japanese. They audience was rooting for the only non-Japanese because of that. Of course in a GP final in figure skating that can also happen. People don't want worlds to be that way. But then I am also thinking of climbing which has a huge amount of starters (about 100) in the WC and often there a rather big contingents from certain countries. They have a qualification round and semi-finals though. I prefer such a system.
About the tech minimums: I would not use TES only but the whole score. If you distrust the PCS scores so much you cannot use them, even if you use the GOEs, why even have them? It's pretty much admitting defeat of the scoring system and very inconsequent.
I am also not in favour of having such few events for skaters to qualify, but in the end I think, different from a lot of things that happen in this sport, pressure to perform to go further is not inhuman... it's part of sport. Hopefully all these athletes get support and don't see figure skating and their results in fs as the only source of validation and identity. I know Josefin certainly doesn't, and that's great, although irrelevant for now that she got her mins.
I often use the analogy with curling. A while back, Canada probably had half if not more of the top ten teams in the world. Only one goes to the world championships... Only one goes to the Olympics. In the earlier games, Canada was dominant. Nowadays, teams from Europe and Asia have won titles... sometimes Canada doesn't even get on the podium.
I believe the ISU is doing something similar with accepting one skater per nation, with having strict quotas (3 max) for stronger nations. As a matter of fact, Japanese and South Korean skaters were not dominant at all when I started watching skating. They developed slowly but surely.
The argument you are presenting is often shared in this forum, especially with Russian women. It is on the quiet side now because of the circumstances we all know.
You will not like what I will be saying here but my reform would be two skaters per nations, with TES minimums. Not 3 for top nations.... no fluctuation in quotas... Everyone gets 2 if they have the appropriate scores... just like in swimming. I think this would be a good thing especially in singles. Why? Because I feel that the top nations are really advantaged compared to the middle of the pack nations who have to fight constantly to earn their 2nd spot or keep it if they earned it the year before. When you think of it, a middle of the pack nation able to place two skaters ranked 13 to 24 would lose a spot while a very weak nation placing a skater in 48 position get to the same end result... because, the top nations have 3 skaters in the top ten for instance, which prevents middle of the pack nations to develop their own skaters... Rich nations get richer, middle class nations get poorer... poor nations remain poor but have a guaranteed one spot
I think the sport develops when quotas are even and guaranteed... Also why only TES? Simply because of PCS manipulation. It could be very easy to boost everyone's score in challengers to give skaters minimums... Imagine, at ACI, only one woman, the world champion got her TES minimums in the SP.
With Canadian skaters looking for theirs, and actually skating quite well at the event (sharing the podium with Kaori) you can imagine what could happen with PCS.So yeah, there are discussions about this every season. I forgive you : your date of arrival is not even one year ago.. so maybe you haven't seen all of these discussions. We have seen it all over here... For instance, some fans would say that the top ten in women skaters would be all from one very specific country... and yet, those two years, 3 of the 6 medals were won by.... Canada, 2 from Japan and only one from Russia.
I will end this here as it is very off-topic.
To make this more relevant and on topic with Canadian skating, think about the consequences of a rule that would focus only on the top nations... Our Canadian men deserve a chance to compete. Keegan earned it for them last year... and it's great for these young guys that they have a chance to compete this year at home worlds. Sure, you may not like them or think highly of them... Sure, there could be 8 Japanese men instead. But that would just kill the sport in the long run... It would make it even more niche. Canada would focus on pairs and dance forever.. Japanese would have never bothered developing a pairs team that ended up being world champions... What the quotas and the TES minimums do is create opportunities all around the world, create hope for other nations to climb up and aspire to become leaders.
So there you have it. I couldn't care less to see the best and best and best skaters only at worlds. Canada right now has the best two female judo competitors in the 57kg category. Only one is allowed to go to the olympics... not even two... ONE. This is actually how a sport that was at first pretty much only the affair of a couple countries (mainly one) has become worldwide.
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- Dec 7, 2022
Ok.. this is a topic for another thread as clearly, it's not a Canadian affair but an ISU decision.
I often use the analogy with curling. A while back, Canada probably had half if not more of the top ten teams in the world. Only one goes to the world championships... Only one goes to the Olympics. In the earlier games, Canada was dominant. Nowadays, teams from Europe and Asia have won titles... sometimes Canada doesn't even get on the podium.
I believe the ISU is doing something similar with accepting one skater per nation, with having strict quotas (3 max) for stronger nations. As a matter of fact, Japanese and South Korean skaters were not dominant at all when I started watching skating. They developed slowly but surely.
The argument you are presenting is often shared in this forum, especially with Russian women. It is on the quiet side now because of the circumstances we all know.
You will not like what I will be saying here but my reform would be two skaters per nations, with TES minimums. Not 3 for top nations.... no fluctuation in quotas... Everyone gets 2 if they have the appropriate scores... just like in swimming. I think this would be a good thing especially in singles. Why? Because I feel that the top nations are really advantaged compared to the middle of the pack nations who have to fight constantly to earn their 2nd spot or keep it if they earned it the year before. When you think of it, a middle of the pack nation able to place two skaters ranked 13 to 24 would lose a spot while a very weak nation placing a skater in 48 position get to the same end result... because, the top nations have 3 skaters in the top ten for instance, which prevents middle of the pack nations to develop their own skaters... Rich nations get richer, middle class nations get poorer... poor nations remain poor but have a guaranteed one spot
I think the sport develops when quotas are even and guaranteed... Also why only TES? Simply because of PCS manipulation. It could be very easy to boost everyone's score in challengers to give skaters minimums... Imagine, at ACI, only one woman, the world champion got her TES minimums in the SP.
So yeah, there are discussions about this every season. I forgive you : your date of arrival is not even one year ago.. so maybe you haven't seen all of these discussions. We have seen it all over here... For instance, some fans would say that the top ten in women skaters would be all from one very specific country... and yet, those two years, 3 of the 6 medals were won by.... Canada, 2 from Japan and only one from Russia.
I will end this here as it is very off-topic.
To make this more relevant and on topic with Canadian skating, think about the consequences of a rule that would focus only on the top nations... Our Canadian men deserve a chance to compete. Keegan earned it for them last year... and it's great for these young guys that they have a chance to compete this year at home worlds. Sure, you may not like them or think highly of them... Sure, there could be 8 Japanese men instead. But that would just kill the sport in the long run... It would make it even more niche. Canada would focus on pairs and dance forever.. Japanese would have never bothered developing a pairs team that ended up being world champions... What the quotas and the TES minimums do is create opportunities all around the world, create hope for other nations to climb up and aspire to become leaders.
So there you have it. I couldn't care less to see the best and best and best skaters only at worlds. Canada right now has the best two female judo competitors in the 57kg category. Only one is allowed to go to the olympics... not even two... ONE. This is actually how a sport that was at first pretty much only the affair of a couple countries (mainly one) has become worldwide.
Oh I have seen those discussions elsewhere, especially in regards to the Russians. I simply do not agree with the arguments for tight quotas for countries. However if this has been discussed over and over here as well we don't need to have that discussion again. I simply wanted to explain that it was and is not my intent to put down individual skaters but that I would prefer a completely different system.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I think the ISU is doing what it can.... GP is a system that allows the best skaters... that's why there are a maximum of Japanese women at every single GP... and only one Canadian with 2 events.Oh I have seen those discussions elsewhere, especially in regards to the Russians. I simply do not agree with the arguments for tight quotas for countries. However if this has been discussed over and over here as well we don't need to have that discussion again. I simply wanted to explain that it was and is not my intent to put down individual skaters but that I would prefer a completely different system.
World championships aims for world participation. Skaters who will never be on the GP circuit have a chance to participate. Many of us have reform ideas. Of course, I like mine the best HA ! But in the end, one has to consider the very cyclical nature of the sport. Quotas keeping more than just the top 2 or 3 nations in play allow for these cycles to happen and ipso facto for the sport to develop everywhere. If only the top skaters had been in place a couple decades ago, when Russian were mostly dominant in pairs and dance, the sport would have remained that way.... ice dance would never have been strong in North America, Russian women would have kept focusing on pairs and dance.
See how things have flipped around just in a few decades? In the end, it makes everyone better not to have only the best attend the world championships ETA Do not forget that many countries fund sports for which they have olympic hopes for medals. If a reform allowing more and more skaters from dominant nations came in and a country like Germany or Canada had no chance to place top 20 in singles, you can only imagine what would happen to the funding... Already, it seems like funding is gone in Germany for skating.... Be careful what you wish for is the motto here. If many countries stopped funding the sport and its athletes, the sport just dies...
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I actually completely agree with you at the macro level, but will nevertheless continue to complain about Lajoie/Lagha not getting to go to worlds last season, and Lauriault/LeGac most likely missing out this season, lol.Ok.. this is a topic for another thread as clearly, it's not a Canadian affair but an ISU decision.
I often use the analogy with curling. A while back, Canada probably had half if not more of the top ten teams in the world. Only one goes to the world championships... Only one goes to the Olympics. In the earlier games, Canada was dominant. Nowadays, teams from Europe and Asia have won titles... sometimes Canada doesn't even get on the podium.
I believe the ISU is doing something similar with accepting one skater per nation, with having strict quotas (3 max) for stronger nations. As a matter of fact, Japanese and South Korean skaters were not dominant at all when I started watching skating. They developed slowly but surely.
The argument you are presenting is often shared in this forum, especially with Russian women. It is on the quiet side now because of the circumstances we all know.
You will not like what I will be saying here but my reform would be two skaters per nations, with TES minimums. Not 3 for top nations.... no fluctuation in quotas... Everyone gets 2 if they have the appropriate scores... just like in swimming. I think this would be a good thing especially in singles. Why? Because I feel that the top nations are really advantaged compared to the middle of the pack nations who have to fight constantly to earn their 2nd spot or keep it if they earned it the year before. When you think of it, a middle of the pack nation able to place two skaters ranked 13 to 24 would lose a spot while a very weak nation placing a skater in 48 position get to the same end result... because, the top nations have 3 skaters in the top ten for instance, which prevents middle of the pack nations to develop their own skaters... Rich nations get richer, middle class nations get poorer... poor nations remain poor but have a guaranteed one spot
I think the sport develops when quotas are even and guaranteed... Also why only TES? Simply because of PCS manipulation. It could be very easy to boost everyone's score in challengers to give skaters minimums... Imagine, at ACI, only one woman, the world champion got her TES minimums in the SP.
So yeah, there are discussions about this every season. I forgive you : your date of arrival is not even one year ago.. so maybe you haven't seen all of these discussions. We have seen it all over here... For instance, some fans would say that the top ten in women skaters would be all from one very specific country... and yet, those two years, 3 of the 6 medals were won by.... Canada, 2 from Japan and only one from Russia.
I will end this here as it is very off-topic.
To make this more relevant and on topic with Canadian skating, think about the consequences of a rule that would focus only on the top nations... Our Canadian men deserve a chance to compete. Keegan earned it for them last year... and it's great for these young guys that they have a chance to compete this year at home worlds. Sure, you may not like them or think highly of them... Sure, there could be 8 Japanese men instead. But that would just kill the sport in the long run... It would make it even more niche. Canada would focus on pairs and dance forever.. Japanese would have never bothered developing a pairs team that ended up being world champions... What the quotas and the TES minimums do is create opportunities all around the world, create hope for other nations to climb up and aspire to become leaders.
So there you have it. I couldn't care less to see the best and best and best skaters only at worlds. Canada right now has the best two female judo competitors in the 57kg category. Only one is allowed to go to the olympics... not even two... ONE. This is actually how a sport that was at first pretty much only the affair of a couple countries (mainly one) has become worldwide.
But also, part of an antidote to the frustration could be an increase in significant competitions like 4CC, Euros etc. where perhaps nations could send their great skaters who will miss worlds. Thus we would have more high level competitions.
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