2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating

[4everchan]

Anthony has a chance to be selected : there are two spots for JWC.

I think both Wesley, Stephen and Aleksa are all still junior age eligible . Skate Canada usually sends the national champion in juniors (Terry) + the best age eligible skater. So it all depends what they decide to do here with the two senior spots as well. There are 3 championships : 3 spots at 4cc, 2 spots at JWC and 2 spots at SWC. In this occasion, the best chance to win a medal is probably by sending Aleksa and/or Wesley at JWC.

Skate Canada doesn't like to send the JWC skaters to 4CC and JWC skaters will definitely not do double duties with SWC.

The only championship Anthony could do is JWC as he has no senior minimums for 4CC. On top of that, when Anthony won Junior Nationals in 2022, he wasn't able to go (injury) so he didn't get his moment.

So it will indeed be a puzzle for the FED and when it's complicated, they usually send off the guys to fight for spots at 4CC and decide later on.

 

[rain]

Anthony has a chance to be selected : there are two spots for JWC.

I think both Wesley, Stephen and Aleksa are all still junior age eligible . Skate Canada usually sends the national champion in juniors (Terry) + the best age eligible skater. So it all depends what they decide to do here with the two senior spots as well. There are 3 championships : 3 spots at 4cc, 2 spots at JWC and 2 spots at SWC. In this occasion, the best chance to win a medal is probably by sending Aleksa and/or Wesley at JWC.

Skate Canada doesn't like to send the JWC skaters to 4CC and JWC skaters will definitely not do double duties with SWC.

The only championship Anthony could do is JWC as he has no senior minimums for 4CC. On top of that, when Anthony won Junior Nationals in 2022, he wasn't able to go (injury) so he didn't get his moment.

So it will indeed be a puzzle for the FED and when it's complicated, they usually send off the guys to fight for spots at 4CC and decide later on.

Often the decisions for Skate Canada are easy, but not this year in the mens and women's fields. Nobody has lit the world on fire internationally and nobody is a medal contender in either discipline so it's just about trying to qualify as many spots as possible. I don't really think the chances are fantastic, no matter who they send, so it becomes more about experience and who can benefit, plus what they showed at nationals. That a number of the skaters are eligible for both junior and senior further complicates things.

It seems like people want Skate Canada to send Anthony to junior worlds, but without a quad or triple axel, no matter how wonderful he is artistically, and with several other choices with more potential firepower, I don't know how likely this is or whether it would most benefit Canada for next year's spots. I don't watch juniors, so I'm not familiar with the field and how the Canadians would rank.

For the senior men's spots Wesley at least had a short program here that would likely qualify him to skate the free, and then some, even though the long wasn't particularly strong. But he can also do junior worlds, and the rest of his season hasn't been strong and seniors is a lot of pressure. Pretty much ditto for Aleksa.

Conrad came back in the long, and can do the difficulty, but he totally tanked the SP and it's not the first time. Also, last season at worlds he didn't skate that badly, yet failed to make the LP, which says something about how the international judges view him.

This was Roman's first competition of the season and Skate Canada may be willing to try to see more before completely writing him off.

So I think it would be in Skate Canada's best interests to send as many as possible to 4CC and see what happens.

As for women, I think they still probably send Maddie to worlds if she does OK at 4CC. I do think they should send Kaiya out to try to get the minimums, but it also says something about how the international judges view her that she has not been able to achieve them yet with several chances. (Though of course a Canadian title could change that. Perception is important.)

Dance is somewhat easier, though is still a bit of an "it depends". Piper and Paul obviously go wherever they want. I'd say Lajoie/Lagha are also a shoo-in as long as she is recovered enough. FB/S is more complicated and will depend on factors outside of the skating. But the choices for Skate Canada are still clear: if there is a third spot open it will go to Lauriault/Le Gac, and if there are two spots open Fabri/Ayer join the team. There is no pressing reason to do anything else, IMO.

And pairs are the top 3 teams at nationals. Even if McIntosh/Mimar recover from injury, I don't see them taking the spot from Laurin/Ethier. They haven't given any performances this season that would make that a good idea.

 

[4everchan]

Often the decisions for Skate Canada are easy, but not this year in the mens and women's fields. Nobody has lit the world on fire internationally and nobody is a medal contender in either discipline so it's just about trying to qualify as many spots as possible. I don't really think the chances are fantastic, no matter who they send, so it becomes more about experience and who can benefit, plus what they showed at nationals. That a number of the skaters are eligible for both junior and senior further complicates things.

Yup... totally agree.... at the same time, I like having skaters who are age eligible for both : it means that our skaters get readier earlier to compete senior (within the age requirements). We have had a few women especially who were late bloomers and that's tough to manage.

It seems like people want Skate Canada to send Anthony to junior worlds, but without a quad or triple axel, no matter how wonderful he is artistically, and with several other choices with more potential firepower, I don't know how likely this is or whether it would most benefit Canada for next year's spots. I don't watch juniors, so I'm not familiar with the field and how the Canadians would rank.

Yup... the Japanese men are very strong. The only way Canada can boost their chances at JWC would be by sending Aleksa and Wesley.

For the senior men's spots Wesley at least had a short program here that would likely qualify him to skate the free, and then some, even though the long wasn't particularly strong. But he can also do junior worlds, and the rest of his season hasn't been strong and seniors is a lot of pressure. Pretty much ditto for Aleksa.

Yes. That's the kicker : Pretty much only Wesley had a SP able to qualify him for the LP at SWC... at the same time, Conrad is the only one who has managed to land two quads in the SP in a while... just not this week...

Conrad came back in the long, and can do the difficulty, but he totally tanked the SP and it's not the first time. Also, last season at worlds he didn't skate that badly, yet failed to make the LP, which says something about how the international judges view him.

yes.. and this is why he needed to be sent out, especially now that he has fixed his spins and improved his basic skating. BTW he got level 4 on all spins during the LP... International judges may like him better this year.

This was Roman's first competition of the season and Skate Canada may be willing to try to see more before completely writing him off.

Senior Bs and Challengers would be the way to go for me : he still hasn't fully recovered. Right now, he doesn't really have a quad salchow and a triple axel and his success rate for the 3lz-3t was 50% this weekend.

So I think it would be in Skate Canada's best interests to send as many as possible to 4CC and see what happens.

as many = 3

As for women, I think they still probably send Maddie to worlds if she does OK at 4CC. I do think they should send Kaiya out to try to get the minimums, but it also says something about how the international judges view her that she has not been able to achieve them yet with several chances. (Though of course a Canadian title could change that. Perception is important.)

Yes but she still needs to work on her spins and under-rotations which is why she cannot get the tech minimums in the SP.

Dance is somewhat easier, though is still a bit of an "it depends". Piper and Paul obviously go wherever they want. I'd say Lajoie/Lagha are also a shoo-in as long as she is recovered enough. FB/S is more complicated and will depend on factors outside of the skating. But the choices for Skate Canada are still clear: if there is a third spot open it will go to Lauriault/Le Gac, and if there are two spots open Fabri/Ayer join the team. There is no pressing reason to do anything else, IMO.

Yup... the "it depends" is clear here.. and mind you, the 3 top teams just competed at GPF so there is nothing "unknown" in terms of skating results/potential like for the single skaters

And pairs are the top 3 teams at nationals. Even if McIntosh/Mimar recover from injury, I don't see them taking the spot from Laurin/Ethier. They haven't given any performances this season that would make that a good idea.

Totally agree... Funny how, at the beginning of the season, I thought that pairs would be a nightmare.
Nic and Emma had done super well at CQÉ. I was doubting Trennt and Lia... and wasn't sure about the two younger teams... I was even thinking that Caidence and Raine had a shot... The one spot that was decided was SD/D but now... to me, this one is a no-brainer. Kelly Ann and Loucas have shown enough stability and fighting spirits and are improving a lot with their on ice personality while MiMac have been struggling all season with injuries.

 

[Sackie]

Not sure how many more chances Skate Canada should give Roman. Isn't it about time that he starts earning his spots just like everyone else. Yes he was injured this season and that explains his result at Nationals but what about last year. He also underperformed at last year's Nationals and the Olympics. Yet this year he was given chances to get out there and skate (they didn't work out but they were offered to him) while others who placed ahead of him did not get the same chance. Yes he has the best chance to score and place well when he skates well but how often has that happened. What is he learning if he knows he can go to Nationals and not have to skate well and still get international assignments.

 

[4everchan]

Not sure how many more chances Skate Canada should give Roman. Isn't it about time that he starts earning his spots just like everyone else. Yes he was injured this season and that explains his result at Nationals but what about last year. He also underperformed at last year's Nationals and the Olympics. Yet this year he was given chances to get out there and skate (they didn't work out but they were offered to him) while others who placed ahead of him did not get the same chance. Yes he has the best chance to score and place well when he skates well but how often has that happened. What is he learning if he knows he can go to Nationals and not have to skate well and still get international assignments.

Agree. that's the issue. Skate Canada, with Patrick, Nam and Keegan and even Nic and Jo's retirements has a hard time finding a full package skater. Growth spurts... injuries... nervous skating... So in some ways, they look at the field and see a guy with usually great programs, big jumps when landed and perhaps the most beautiful spins in the world... so they push for him... But he is just not ready physically this year... he wasn't ready mentally last year...
They need to stop pushing and give him time to reconnect with, as you say, earning his spots like everyone else.

When i see Shlipchuk findiing Roman two challengers (sure they didn't happen) and not giving the same opportunities to Conrad, who, with Keegan's retirement, was their poster boy for men as top ranked from previous Nationals, I am shocked. What it does to Conrad is that he always has this pressure of proving that he is good enough and he collapses. Having more competitions that are not life deciding for him would definitely help.

It seems that they are pushing for Wesley and if I do agree with the potential, I don't think Wesley is yet mature enough in his skating. Normal, he is super young. End of rant.

The one thing I hope is that Conrad is at peace with all of this. I am just a fan, not an insider at all, but if I were his coach or part of his entourage, I'd be very pissed off with how things are unfolding with someone who has worked tremendously hard to improve year after year, got the message that jumping was not good enough, and developed his skating, moved to Ravi, kept relearning his technique...

Anyways... at this point, I feel that Conrad is guaranteed a 4CC spot. So I will take this. May he earn himself a big season's best score, able to land him a GP invitation.

 

[saine]

I do appreciate the technical panels for the men and women. I was expecting junior women/senior men to be tough but fair, and I appreciate that it did carry over to junior men/senior women too. It doesn't help the skaters if the jumps aren't called.

I'm still on the Uliana/Fee Ann/Audreanne for a senior B train. Uliana was the only senior woman who would've earned the Worlds TES minimums for both her skates. They need an alternate for Worlds and she is the best bet for being able to get the minimums. Fee Ann wasn't as strong as she was at Challenge, but she placed fifth and only has the Junior minimums. She should get a chance, she would've earned her minimums with her skates at Challenge. And I'd like to see Audreanne get a chance too. Fee Ann won Challenge after going to a junior B, maybe Audreanne needs that chance too to improve her scores.

And it isn't even about the Worlds TES for me. Sara-Maude in 6th and Justine in 8th are the next eligible skaters for 4CC. They limited their options for it and now it defaults to them. And I'm a Sara-Maude fan!

I don't know what happened where it got to the point that Stephen skated that short program when he was injured to the point where he couldn't attend practices for what was going to be a 2 quad short. If Skate Canada didn't know that one of their top men was competing in that state, then they really need to look at their processes. That shouldn't have happened. I hope Stephen can take the time he needs to heal, that's more important than skating.

Also maybe they shouldn't have done a lot of press about how this would be Roman's season debut. I wasn't really surprised at his performance here and kind of expected him to place 6th. Yeah, it's been a story, but maybe take some time to think about how someone who only competed his short program with reduced content once would do at his first full competition of the season.

Kudos to Anthony! He's put in work on his technical score, and I was impressed with that at Challenge. He also handled the boot issue great and was able to hold on for the bronze. I hope he continues to compete as a junior internationally. I don't think there's a need for him to move up to senior international competitions yet and he needs the time to increase his jump content to be competitive at that level. Plus he's a Canadian man and there could be growth spurts coming. Let him develop at that level internationally without rushing.

 

[rain]

I do appreciate the technical panels for the men and women. I was expecting junior women/senior men to be tough but fair, and I appreciate that it did carry over to junior men/senior women too. It doesn't help the skaters if the jumps aren't called.

I was happy with how the judging went. Nobody really got great GOEs on most things and they didn't deserve to. No giving out points like candy. I think it helps the skaters have more realistic expectations and to know what they have to work on.

I've always had this quibble with the difference between how the COP was conceived versus how it was implemented. How it was conceived, the majority of skaters would get 0 GOE for elements that are done with no errors. Positive GOE was for elements with exceptional qualities (which most do not have, realistically, and yes, I mean that internationally) for which a 3 point scale was more than adequate. Negative GOE was for elements with errors. But judges just give out too much GOE, period. There was supposed to be nothing wrong with giving out 0 GOE for a good solid jump, but here we are with plus and minus 5 because the judges just didn't get it. Anyway, that's my rant for the morning.

I'm still on the Uliana/Fee Ann/Audreanne for a senior B train. Uliana was the only senior woman who would've earned the Worlds TES minimums for both her skates. They need an alternate for Worlds and she is the best bet for being able to get the minimums. Fee Ann wasn't as strong as she was at Challenge, but she placed fifth and only has the Junior minimums. She should get a chance, she would've earned her minimums with her skates at Challenge. And I'd like to see Audreanne get a chance too. Fee Ann won Challenge after going to a junior B, maybe Audreanne needs that chance too to improve her scores.

And it isn't even about the Worlds TES for me. Sara-Maude in 6th and Justine in 8th are the next eligible skaters for 4CC. They limited their options for it and now it defaults to them. And I'm a Sara-Maude fan!

They should definitely send some of the women who performed well here out to some senior Bs. I'd be more enthusiastic about Uliana if she wasn't a McLeod skater, a coach who has never fixed her skaters' weaknesses. I wasn't encouraged that they looked surprised in the kiss and cry like they didn't know why she scored like she did. Because I do think this is a skater with great potential.

I don't know what happened where it got to the point that Stephen skated that short program when he was injured to the point where he couldn't attend practices for what was going to be a 2 quad short. If Skate Canada didn't know that one of their top men was competing in that state, then they really need to look at their processes. That shouldn't have happened. I hope Stephen can take the time he needs to heal, that's more important than skating.

This kind of took Stephen out of consideration for me for the rest of the season's comps. Skate Canada may feel differently, but this didn't seem like something that was going to quickly heal up.

Also maybe they shouldn't have done a lot of press about how this would be Roman's season debut. I wasn't really surprised at his performance here and kind of expected him to place 6th. Yeah, it's been a story, but maybe take some time to think about how someone who only competed his short program with reduced content once would do at his first full competition of the season.

I was not at all surprised by his performance, though I always hope for better. Though I do think they should still look at sending him out to at least a senior B or two if they can.

 

[4everchan]

Was just thinking... how convenient for Skate Canada that the three men for 4CC could fly to China out from Vancouver (well if Conrad is in Edmonton).

 

[Diana Delafield]

Was just thinking... how convenient for Skate Canada that the three men for 4CC could fly to China out from Vancouver (well if Conrad is in Edmonton).

And if they got in some practice time at Wesley's Connaught Club before leaving, that's in Richmond which is also the home of the Vancouver International Airport. Maybe a 10-minute drive from the club, depending on traffic and road conditions .

 

[4everchan]

And if they got in some practice time at Wesley's Connaught Club before leaving, that's in Richmond which is also the home of the Vancouver International Airport. Maybe a 10-minute drive from the club, depending on traffic and road conditions .

Do you think Joanne would let Aleksa practice on the "enemy" ice

 

[SnowWhite]

When i see Shlipchuk findiing Roman two challengers (sure they didn't happen) and not giving the same opportunities to Conrad, who, with Keegan's retirement, was their poster boy for men as top ranked from previous Nationals, I am shocked. What it does to Conrad is that he always has this pressure of proving that he is good enough and he collapses. Having more competitions that are not life deciding for him would definitely help.

I mean, I want to see them send out a lot of our skaters more, but I don't really get this take. Conrad got one CS and one GP spot in the fall. If he hadn't been injured, Roman would have gotten the same. So SC trying to give him two CS later once he's healthy is essentially giving him the same number of fall internationals as the other men. I'm not saying 2 events is enough for Conrad, but I don't see this as them giving more to Roman compared to Conrad.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Do you think Joanne would let Aleksa practice on the "enemy" ice

Ah. Maybe not. But he could rent time at the central Minoru arena or the newer, bigger Richmond Ice Centre where Connaught used to skate before they moved to the Oval. Not much further a drive to the airport, and both rent out private ice. Weekdays around noon the ice is inexpensive, take it from me . And the RIC has six ice surfaces with virtually no seating for spectators, lots of privacy if that's what you want. Great ice, good sound system for playing your own music. Strictly a working arena.

 

[4everchan]

I mean, I want to see them send out a lot of our skaters more, but I don't really get this take. Conrad got one CS and one GP spot in the fall. If he hadn't been injured, Roman would have gotten the same. So SC trying to give him two CS later once he's healthy is essentially giving him the same number of fall internationals as the other men. I'm not saying 2 events is enough for Conrad, but I don't see this as them giving more to Roman compared to Conrad.

I think the point I am making is that Conrad's fall spots were done in early october... he didn't get a second GP spot (not Skate Canada's fault I guess) and while he was stuck at home, everyone else was going around... Conrad improves slowly and steadily. He needed another challenger. Why not send him with Roman ? I think he deserved another chance when he did underperform. I am biased but I feel that Skate Canada has invested the least in Conrad compared to the other 3 men... Even last year, why did he not get WTT ? He clearly established he was better prepared than Stephen at both Nationals and 4CC.. yet they sent Stephen who did nothing there. And we all know that WTT means $$ for the skaters and a chance for better season best scores.

So I guess my feeling is coming from a few seasons where I feel that Conrad is being left out, even when he won silver, it had to be a skate off to get his world spot...

Now, he won Challenge, why not confirming his 4CC spot right away and ease his nerves a bit ? We all know he is a nervous skater but he is willing to fight... what about giving him a chance to compete when nothing is really on the line, so he can get better at dealing with competitive ice ? When I saw the start order, I knew that skating last would be a problem for him. It happened. Of course.

I feel that Stephen, Wesley and Roman have been given more chances to prove themselves. That's all

 

[ladyjane]

I couldn't agree more about Conrad: I wish I had seen him more last fall. I love him as a skater, I remember him as that small boy and Keegan looking out for him. and now we see this lovely tall young man. He chose the Carmina as one of his programmes once. That does it for me to favour him!

 

[rain]

I think the point I am making is that Conrad's fall spots were done in early october... he didn't get a second GP spot (not Skate Canada's fault I guess) and while he was stuck at home, everyone else was going around... Conrad improves slowly and steadily. He needed another challenger. Why not send him with Roman ? I think he deserved another chance when he did underperform. I am biased but I feel that Skate Canada has invested the least in Conrad compared to the other 3 men... Even last year, why did he not get WTT ? He clearly established he was better prepared than Stephen at both Nationals and 4CC.. yet they sent Stephen who did nothing there. And we all know that WTT means $$ for the skaters and a chance for better season best scores.

So I guess my feeling is coming from a few seasons where I feel that Conrad is being left out, even when he won silver, it had to be a skate off to get his world spot...

Now, he won Challenge, why not confirming his 4CC spot right away and ease his nerves a bit ? We all know he is a nervous skater but he is willing to fight... what about giving him a chance to compete when nothing is really on the line, so he can get better at dealing with competitive ice ? When I saw the start order, I knew that skating last would be a problem for him. It happened. Of course.

I feel that Stephen, Wesley and Roman have been given more chances to prove themselves. That's all

I sincerely hope they send Conrad to 4CC, because if he does OK there I would send him to worlds. He's got the biggest jumps of the men, and by all accounts he looked phenomenal in practice. Yes, I'd send him over Chiu unless Chiu is really unexpectedly awesome at 4CC.

But I don't feel like the other men were hard done by in terms of competitive opportunities this season compared to Roman. As SnowWhite pointed out, the only difference is that Roman literally couldn't skate earlier in the fall. It's incredibly unfortunate that we got to nationals and he'd had zero competitive chances so far. That's why I'd like to see him given some post-nationals comps to set him up for next season. No, I don't mean the worlds spot, that would be a terrible idea. But some senior Bs with less pressure would be a good idea if they're looking to the future.

 

[4everchan]

I sincerely hope they send Conrad to 4CC, because if he does OK there I would send him to worlds. He's got the biggest jumps of the men, and by all accounts he looked phenomenal in practice. Yes, I'd send him over Chiu unless Chiu is really unexpectedly awesome at 4CC.

I don't think they can really leave Conrad out of 4CC at this point.

But I don't feel like the other men were hard done by in terms of competitive opportunities this season compared to Roman. As SnowWhite pointed out, the only difference is that Roman literally couldn't skate earlier in the fall. It's incredibly unfortunate that we got to nationals and he'd had zero competitive chances so far. That's why I'd like to see him given some post-nationals comps to set him up for next season. No, I don't mean the worlds spot, that would be a terrible idea. But some senior Bs with less pressure would be a good idea if they're looking to the future.

Sure. I think my comment is fueled by Conrad's comments after SCI... he knew his fall season was already over.. and was stuck at home while others were going out to compete. No matter the reasons, it's tough for a competitor to perform early in october and then have to shine when it counts the most, at Nationals. I am glad he went to challenge though he had a bye... but that pretty much was his only opportunity and it's not the same when it "doesn't count"

Anyway... the near future will reveal a lot on how Skate Canada sees our talent.

 

[saine]

But I don't feel like the other men were hard done by in terms of competitive opportunities this season compared to Roman. As SnowWhite pointed out, the only difference is that Roman literally couldn't skate earlier in the fall. It's incredibly unfortunate that we got to nationals and he'd had zero competitive chances so far. That's why I'd like to see him given some post-nationals comps to set him up for next season. No, I don't mean the worlds spot, that would be a terrible idea. But some senior Bs with less pressure would be a good idea if they're looking to the future.

I don't think the optics of the Warsaw/Zagreb assignments helped. Roman was the only skater assigned to them. If they had sent other skaters along with him, who may not have had his bad luck, it would've looked better.

 

[rain]

I don't think the optics of the Warsaw/Zagreb assignments helped. Roman was the only skater assigned to them. If they had sent other skaters along with him, who may not have had his bad luck, it would've looked better.

Oh, I'm always on board with sending out more skaters.

 

[4everchan]

For those interested... In the gala thread.. there is a discussion i typed verbatim (more or less) between nam and ted.. or you could listen to the archives... about what's missing for our skaters to perform well

 

[DoxieSk8r]

Again I say Bruce Waddell should do pairs. Looks like Meagan Duhamel agrees with me in her X post.